The Canucks are in definite need of more depth, at every position, so some of these unqualified RFAs are intruiging in that sense. A player like Stewart would make some sense not because you expect him to live up to his draft position, but because he can be a depth role player with a pedigree to possibly do a little more than you expect.
As an aside, I'm a little frustrated the Canucks haven't issued a presser indicating whom they've qualified. I'm sure we can all make an educated guess, but it would be nice to have that information.
I am surprised that none of the Vancouver media have followed this up. How hard is it to call the player/agent and ask if the team is not putting out the info?
Well I suppose it is much less stressful just to sit back and regurgitate press releases or speculate on Slovakian real estate purchases then do some actual research.
I am surprised that none of the Vancouver media have followed this up. How hard is it to call the player/agent and ask if the team is not putting out the info?
Well I suppose it is much less stressful just to sit back and regurgitate press releases or speculate on Slovakian real estate purchases then do some actual research.
Agreed. The media in this town is great at creating controversy, engaging in absurd trade speculation, etc., but when it comes to providing actual information, well, it can be frustrating at times.
That said, you would think the Canucks would issue a one-line release and that would be that.
Agreed. The media in this town is great at creating controversy, engaging in absurd trade speculation, etc., but when it comes to providing actual information, well, it can be frustrating at times.
That said, you would think the Canucks would issue a one-line release and that would be that.
Ha, this is true, but saddening. In a hockey mad market where a player getting a hair cut is huge news, the local media can't even enquire about the QO for our RFA's. Not sexy enough news for the boys in the media to make it worth covering I guess.
What about Brandon Bell? a friend of mine lives in ottawa and said this guy wasn't too bad and is an offensive type player. For $500,000, what's the risk? Continue the trend of stealing Dmen from Ottawa.
Agreed. The media in this town is great at creating controversy, engaging in absurd trade speculation, etc., but when it comes to providing actual information, well, it can be frustrating at times.
That said, you would think the Canucks would issue a one-line release and that would be that.
Well Gillis is reputed to be a control freak so maybe he has to personally approve it?
Gotta wonder if there's something wrong with Eminger that we don't know about. This is the fourth team in a single year that has decided they didn't want him, he wouldn't have been expensive to qualify ($1.2M), and he was a logical candidate for an expanded role in Florida with J-Bo gone. Strange.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubiquitous
Someone else was saying in another thread, I think about Eminger, that they wanted him back, but not at that cap hit.
I might be mistaken, but I think they wanted to redo his deal.
I think you guys are both missing a key ingredient, which is how arbitration works. Let's say Eminger gets his his qualifying offer of 1.2M. At that price, Eminger will turn it down. Why? Because if he is an RFA, he can FORCE his team to go to arbitration. Florida will argue that he is worth 1.2M, but Eminger will argue that he is worth far more than that...after all, look at his numbers. He played top 4 minutes for most of the season, and was 5-21-26 with an plus minus of -3 (impressive considering he accumulated most of that +/- with the Lightning!), made all the more impressive when one takes into account that he had to learn the systems of 3 teams last year. And he'll probably argue that he's worth $2.5M or more. He can point to guys with similar numbers, like Dan Hamhuis or Jordan Leopold or Matt Carle (it's not hard to find comparables for those numbers), each of whom who made $2M or more.
And the arbitrator will look at the case and probably decide upon a number in the low $2M range. The Panthers would not be forced to pay him that amount on a one year deal, however they would pretty much be in a situation where if they want Eminger, they'll have to pay him the arbitration amount. THAT is the number that the Panthers are afraid of. Not the $1.2M, they'd probably love to have him for $1.2M. They fear that qualifying him will turn into what is essentially a take-it-or-leave-it deal at $2.2M.
Sjostrom is a guy I'd be willing to take a chance on. The guy has wheels and is a relentless forechecker. He was also a huge contributor to the best PK in the league last season (averaged 2:42/g), an area we should be looking to improve upon. I also think he's capable of putting up more offense with say, someone other than Blair Betts as his center - he actually has a fair amount of skill. He'd look great on a Kesler-Burrows line were it ever reunited. Also did extremely well in the shootout.
He's two years older than Stewart, and will demand a one-way, but I'd say he's an upgrade over anyone we've thrown out on our 4th line last season.
Woywitka is not intriguing. He's one of the most boring, bland, average-in-every-way hockey players you'll ever see. But these are not bad traits for a #6/7 d-man.
What's going on in STL is a bit strange to me. Letting Woywitka and McKee go, while Brewer is still very questionable to play next year, and re-signing Mike Weaver. I'm sure they know what they are doing, but it makes me suspect that something is in the works besides letting rookies fill the two big holes left on defense.
1. You use stats all the time to justify your position. 4 goals in 105 game is very telling and important factor here. Stewart came into the league based on the idea he was an offensive force. Thus goals scored is a huge statistic in assessing him.
2. Stewart is just another Justin Morrison. He has the one move of going wide off the wing . Once that was taken away from him at the pro level he had little else. He is not good defensively nor are his passing skills well developed. There is little that is good about his game. He has size but only occasionally uses it. Often he is very passive. Right now he is definitely minor pro material at best. I bet that, even though Morrison was far from NHL material, he would have better stats than Stewart. I wouldn't want Morrison and don't want Stewart. Honestly what has Stewart done?
3. Moose are not all that devoid of forwards. They have Desbiens, Blizank, Keene, Rallo, Maxwell, probably Grabner, LaBrie, Walsky, Pope, Collins, Bolduc, Gendur, maybe Shirokov, and players like Derlago and Labelle possibily moving up. Also people like Krog and Jaffray might well be back and, no doubt, Heisinger will bring in more players. There is no desperate need to go get very iffy players like Stewart. He has not been an enforcer before and it is actually out of character for him. Also, if we have more players on Moose contracts it saves having to put them on Canuck contracts.
4, You only have so many contracts. if you want to look at players on a two way I would look much more at players like McCormick, Olvecky or Fritsche or others of the that ilk. Indeed, I hope the Canucks pursue local boy McCormick. If you are looking for legitimate toughness and competiveness you will get la lot more out of him than you will Stewart. (there are times when Stewart drops mentally right out of game) I say that a McCormick contract is a good two way contract but again the Canucks have to be careful how many contracts they sign. If Stewart wanted to sign a contract with the Moose I would have no problems with that.
5. Argument about about the uselessness of Isbister was based not on the signing but on the player - he was garbage player you said. Well so then is Stewart. Every way you measure it, Stewart has been a lesser player than Isbister. So why would we want to sign a garbage player??? If you want to switch it to 'the signing was bad' I would only go on to say that the signing of Stewart is also misguided and two wrongs don't make a right. Beyond that Isbister was off to Europe without a one way (and I knows that doesn't justify the contract) and likely Stewart will head for Europe if he gets only gets a two way. So the whole thing is probably moot.
6. The chances of Stewart helping the Canucks are very small. It is not like you have some one in the bull pen that you know is going to help you at the NHL level. That is not his track record. He makes huge mistakes in coverage and contributes very little offense. A player like Jaffray would be a better bet. Also players like McCormick are much better players to have in that capacity.
I would say there are better two way deals out there, Stewart has not shown he is any kind of prospect, and that team is better to follow through with the young guys they have bought in and groomed rather than bringing in more failed players (which might disrupt the development process) and that, with the limitation on contracts you don't take flyers on people like Stewart. I have seen nothing out of Stewart that suggests he is any kind of NHL prospect and I think the Canucks should be looking to put people on two ways that have shown more promise than Stewart.
All in all, I again don't understand the enthusiasm for this player.
You are *way* over-analysing this and over-estimating the 'enthusiasm' for Stewart.
He's a big young body who can skate and throw his weight around a bit, and drop the gloves on occasion. People here have simply stated that he might be worth giving a shot to as forward organizational depth, given our lack of big bodies who can skate. And absolutely McCormick falls into the same category.
And yes, we do need AHL forwards. The guys you list are mostly marginal AHL players. Outside of guys who will be on our NHL team next year, we only have 10-12 contracts in the organization when we're allowed about another 25, so that's definitely not an issue.
You know that 'garbage player' is a relative term, so don't play dumb on that one. Jason Krog is a great 15th forward and was a good signing last year, but if he's signed to play 82 NHL games, yeah he'll be called a 'garbage player' in that role. And we're going to sign several players who are 'worse than Isbister' this summer, just how we signed Cullen/Krog/Baumgartner etc. last summer, so that argument is a red herring.
What's going on in STL is a bit strange to me. Letting Woywitka and McKee go, while Brewer is still very questionable to play next year, and re-signing Mike Weaver. I'm sure they know what they are doing, but it makes me suspect that something is in the works besides letting rookies fill the two big holes left on defense.
my guess is that they think Pietrangelo will be ready... with him and EJ you have your 2 young players with high potential on defense.
Polak, I thought, played very well last year, and will be a longterm fixture on the team... along with Jackman, that's 2 quality defensive guys on their blueline.
that leaves you with only 2 spots and Colaiacovo will have one... Brewer may still return... and Junland may get a look on the roster, while Weaver will be back as a 6/7 guy.
looking at that group, there's a lot of depth guys there, but not enough in the top 3 guys - EJ really is the only guy who should be considered top pairing at this point.
makes Woywitka and McKee unnecessary though as there is a lot of depth on 4-6 type players where Pietrangelo is likely also to play in his rookie year.
Not very interested in any of the names listed on this thread.
Mild interest in Bell, Sjostrom and Woywitka, but, meh.
And forget MacLean. He got drafted way too high by riding John Tavares's coattails for two seasons in Oshawa...he is maybe a 3rd/4th liner in the AHL, at best.
EDIT: I meant the guys not qualified by other teams, of course. I certainly want the Canucks to qualify Wellwood, Hansen and O'Brien.
You're thinking of Brett MacLean. It was Brett McLean that was waived to be bought out yesterday. He has almost 400 games in the NHL and three straight 35-40 point campaigns prior to last season.
Not very interested in any of the names listed on this thread.
Mild interest in Bell, Sjostrom and Woywitka, but, meh.
And forget MacLean. He got drafted way too high by riding John Tavares's coattails for two seasons in Oshawa...he is maybe a 3rd/4th liner in the AHL, at best.
I believe you are talking about the wrong Brett McLean...
Not very interested in any of the names listed on this thread.
Mild interest in Bell, Sjostrom and Woywitka, but, meh.
And forget MacLean. He got drafted way too high by riding John Tavares's coattails for two seasons in Oshawa...he is maybe a 3rd/4th liner in the AHL, at best.
There is no way in hell the team didn't qualify Jannik Hansen. O'Brien I'd expect there is probably a 90% chance he was qualified, although it's possible the Canucks view his arbitration situation similar to the way the Panthers viewed Eminger's.
Coulombe, Ellis, and Fitzgerald are definitely gone, and McIver probably won't be qualified either after being a healthy scratch in the AHL playoffs.
I think you guys are both missing a key ingredient, which is how arbitration works. Let's say Eminger gets his his qualifying offer of 1.2M. At that price, Eminger will turn it down. Why? Because if he is an RFA, he can FORCE his team to go to arbitration. Florida will argue that he is worth 1.2M, but Eminger will argue that he is worth far more than that
Yup, that's the factor I was missing, makes sense now. Thanks.
There is no way in hell the team didn't qualify Jannik Hansen. O'Brien I'd expect there is probably a 90% chance he was qualified, although it's possible the Canucks view his arbitration situation similar to the way the Panthers viewed Eminger's.
I can't imagine the team not qualifying O'Brien... I don't see his value low enough to just walk away.
Even if he has arbitration leverage (which I can't really see at all from what he's delivered on paper), just walk away from an award which is too high... why walk away now?
Eminger though has some leverage in arbitration... his stats are fairly solid... he's played over 21mins/night, while playing 2nd pairing PP and PK roles, was 4th on his defense in points, while putting up decent hits and blocked shots stats...
overall, he stats last year were closer to Ohlund's than to O'Brien's.
O'Brien didn't score a goal last year. His icetime was under 15 mins/game, and got no PP time, while being last on the team defense in PK time as well.
I can't see O'Brien even going to arbitration... his numbers, role and icetime show he's a #6 guy.
