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Is Koivu really a second line center?

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Old
06-30-2009, 12:52 PM
  #51
Miller Time
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
If it really truly was, then hola, we'd be set. But the problem is, I don't see it. The brief incarnation of the ATAKK first line was dominant. Our second line young players have been much better in the past than they were last season. And if we had 2 solid D-additions coupled with Martin coaching, we should be back chasing down 1st place. Without emptying our prospect cupboard or trading away depth. That's a perfectly large reward already.

The alternative reward via somehow landing a big name star player, well, maybe it's near the same peak. Depends on the price, but odds are it's going to be a price that doesn't let you get a *higher* reward. At least, not until you develop back the depth. But the risk is that you end up with NOTHING. Out of the playoffs. And perhaps an albatross later on. There are no albatrosses likely in the term that Tanguay, Koivu, or Kovalev are likely to command.
this is what makes gainey's approach thus far so confusing...

not working from day one to re-sign those vets and continue to build with what he has assembled would seem to indicate quite clearly that he doesn't believe that your (his) formula has a realistic chance at success.

either he doesn't believe that Koivu-Kovalev-Tanguay have what it takes to lead our team to the next level...

or he doesn't trust our secondary young players (pleks-higgins-kost-lats-lapierre) to be able to contribute enough to make up for not having a truly elite/all-star caliber first line...

why else would he risk as much as he has by publicly "swinging for the fences"?

i speculate that watching this years conference finals and seeing all 4 teams led by at least one elite offensive star (zetterberg, datsyuk, hossa, crosby, malkin, staal, havlat, kane/toews), he's convinced himself that we need an upgrade on kovalev as our go-to-guy if the team is to succeed at the next level.

could it be that Bob has finally succumb to the pressures of the montreal market, enough so to deviate from whatever plan he had been following?

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06-30-2009, 12:59 PM
  #52
mabus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
why else would he risk as much as he has by publicly "swinging for the fences"?

i speculate that watching this years conference finals and seeing all 4 teams led by at least one elite offensive star (zetterberg, datsyuk, hossa, crosby, malkin, staal, havlat, kane/toews), he's convinced himself that we need an upgrade on kovalev as our go-to-guy if the team is to succeed at the next level.

could it be that Bob has finally succumb to the pressures of the montreal market, enough so to deviate from whatever plan he had been following?
I suspect seeing our team go down in four straight had something to do with it

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06-30-2009, 01:01 PM
  #53
Dr. Charles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
this is what makes gainey's approach thus far so confusing...

not working from day one to re-sign those vets and continue to build with what he has assembled would seem to indicate quite clearly that he doesn't believe that your (his) formula has a realistic chance at success.

either he doesn't believe that Koivu-Kovalev-Tanguay have what it takes to lead our team to the next level...

or he doesn't trust our secondary young players (pleks-higgins-kost-lats-lapierre) to be able to contribute enough to make up for not having a truly elite/all-star caliber first line...

why else would he risk as much as he has by publicly "swinging for the fences"?

i speculate that watching this years conference finals and seeing all 4 teams led by at least one elite offensive star (zetterberg, datsyuk, hossa, crosby, malkin, staal, havlat, kane/toews), he's convinced himself that we need an upgrade on kovalev as our go-to-guy if the team is to succeed at the next level.

could it be that Bob has finally succumb to the pressures of the montreal market, enough so to deviate from whatever plan he had been following?
And he's right.
Koivu is over the hill and Tanguay is the definition of soft. The only reason why I want Kovalev back is because he gives a show. We lost 15 years without a show.

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Old
06-30-2009, 02:21 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
My point was that you posted Gomez stats as a comparable to Koivu, pretty much saying that Koivu got roughly the same amount of points as Gomez for 3M+ less, but there are also players who got much more points and played much more games than Koivu for less or for roughly the same amount.

Was just presenting both sides of your argument
And they will probably ask for a raise.

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Originally Posted by mabus View Post
I suspect seeing our team go down in four straight had something to do with it
lol do I need to list the injured players that were injured during the playoffs? It had nothing to do with it.

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Old
06-30-2009, 02:24 PM
  #55
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Saku Koivu isn't as fast as he used to be.

He's a fringe 2nd line centre in the NHL right now, although he's still a pretty solid faceoff guy.

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Old
06-30-2009, 03:55 PM
  #56
Blind Gardien
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
The ATAKK line was dominant for a period of time...the UFA line (tanguay/koivu/kovalev) was dominant for a period of time. Neither of them sustained that dominance and neither of them brought the Habs to the hights they aspired. So even a best case scenario just isn't enough IMO.

The Habs do have strong young veterans IMO and a solid base of prospects...but if they don't surround them with better established players, they'll never reach their potential...at least not with us.

Basically, the Habs have alot of C's & B's...but no A's (other than Markov), Koivu, Kovalev, Tanguay, they're B's...not A's (hope that made sense)
Then the problem is still: who are the available A's? And if you can't find any, is it sensible to let all your B's walk away before you figure out that you can't find any A's?

I don't dispute that there should be a desire to get some A's. But Briere and Gomez and most of the FA crop are not A's. To me, neither are the Sedins... maybe they're B+. And history has not shown Montreal to be an attractive market for what A's there might be (Hossa, Gaborik?).

For a few months last year we had more B's than you could shake a stick at, and got a glimpse that maybe not having a consistently dominant 1st A-line wouldn't be all that bad. So long as you had a couple more productive lines to roll with them. Lang was doing a good job giving us that third option. But as injuries and slumps started decimating all our B's, the attrition was too much. Still, having some Killer B's signed along with hopes for better health/luck would be better than just Wait and C.

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06-30-2009, 03:56 PM
  #57
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he's a strong 2nd line center who can fill in as a top line center for short periods.

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Old
06-30-2009, 04:01 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Then the problem is still: who are the available A's? And if you can't find any, is it sensible to let all your B's walk away before you figure out that you can't find any A's?

I don't dispute that there should be a desire to get some A's. But Briere and Gomez and most of the FA crop are not A's. To me, neither are the Sedins... maybe they're B+. And history has not shown Montreal to be an attractive market for what A's there might be (Hossa, Gaborik?).

For a few months last year we had more B's than you could shake a stick at, and got a glimpse that maybe not having a consistently dominant 1st A-line wouldn't be all that bad. So long as you had a couple more productive lines to roll with them. Lang was doing a good job giving us that third option. But as injuries and slumps started decimating all our B's, the attrition was too much. Still, having some Killer B's signed along with hopes for better health/luck would be better than just Wait and C.
Good post...I guess all we can do is wait to see how this all breaks down. But you're right, maybe with everything that went wrong last year (injuries, pressure, etc) i'm not seeing what might already be there

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Old
06-30-2009, 04:19 PM
  #59
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give him the linemates he deserves and he'll give true #1 center results for at least 2-3 years (and probably get even better, but his body will start to fail him).

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Old
06-30-2009, 07:06 PM
  #60
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Well, the Gomez trade officially means Koivu is done in Montreal. At 16 goals and 55 points, that's the numbers Saku would give us. Gainey won't have traded so much to get Gomez if Saku was coming back

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