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Higgins+McDonagh for Scott Gomez - Pt.II (All trade Related Posts Here)

View Poll Results: Did you like the trade?
Yes 41 18.47%
No 125 56.31%
We'll see 56 25.23%
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Old
06-30-2009, 09:11 PM
  #76
Whitesnake
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Originally Posted by yianik View Post
Yesterday I spoke with a fellow hab fan and I told him I read we were interested in Gomez. We both agreed that it would be a horrible move, and we were assuming we would not be giving much back. So when I saw this trade go through I was sick and felt like 98% of the people on this board. I read a few posts about it being a panic move and then it clicked, this is actually a desperation move.
When Gainey traded Balej for Kovalev he did so for a few reasons, in my view. He wanted to reward the hard work of the team that year by giving tham a better chance of doing some damage. He wanted to give the fans something to cheer about and most importantly, he wanted everyone to know the Habs were back, we were going to be buyers from now on, not sellers. This last point was important and over the years Gainey has spoken of how important it was to attract players into wanting to play in Montreal.I don't know why, maybe its taxes, maybe its the intense scrutiny from the media and fans, or maybe its because players see a guy like Koivu who has kept coming back from serious health problems, plays bigger than his size , gives the team everything he has every game, is abslolutely loyal, and still gets trashed ( I don't have a problem with people giving their opinon that Koivu isn't what the team may need now, but c'mon give Koivu some repect) like he's been some kind of talentless floater all these years. Anyway, like I said , I don't know why, but UFA's generally don't want to play here. Gainey has tried and tried ie Arnott, Sundin, Shanahan, Hossa.. . I mean, he offers french guys more money and they say no. What to do ? Trade. Go for Lecalavier. But, ownership issues and the trade is vetoed. Now what? Come July 1 , Gainey knows he is in troule to sign a big time UFA. If we don't shake the team up we are guaranteed another year of mediociity. Go for the hail mary. Take on a horrible contract to land a great skating and playmaking centre ( whose actually okay at faceoffs) who most scoring wingers would love to play with, and I am guessing, offer not just more, but alot more money to Gaborik or Hossa than anybody else offers. The deal needed to be done today because players get snapped up fast and the centre needed to be in place. We still may not land an impact winger and then this play would have failes, but Gainey did this I think, to give him every possible chance to hit a homerun UFA. And no , though I love Koivu, I don't think a top winger would pick him over Gomez.
This is my first post, so take it easy guys.
While your post makes sense as far as why he did that trade, I believe that putting himself in desperation mode his Gainey's biggest mistakes that he only had himself to blame for. Everybody knows that Komisarek is not as bad as he showed all year. If Gainey would have signed him in December, Gainey would have been in the best situation. Now power has shift towards Komi where nobody remembers how bad he was, or if they do everybody believes it was just a fluke (see Ryder) and in the UFA market, he will get more than he ever dreamed of. Same applies with Ribeiro.....he had to get rid of him for some reasons, like right now.....well this is the result we had. And it's not solely Gainey, we all dearly remember what the Roy trade looked like when we had to get rid of him like right now.....At one point, wasn't Sather more in a desperation mode? Wasn't it obvious that he wanted desperately to send one of his highest paid guy away? I mean at one point, shouldn't the trade be Gomez AND HIS CONTRACT for Higgins and McDo? I mean that contract had to be enough for Gainey to say to Sather that you will not get my best d-man prospect. I may give you an interesting one, but surely not top 2....

But everybody who would have listened to what Pat Burns had to say and still think it makes sense for whatever reason, has to be in Gainey's family. Not a guy with a whole lot of leadership, not a guy who shows consistency, not a big scorer, not that physical, just by what he said and the tone, clearly, Gomez was not amongst his favorites. He did say though that he should get along with Martin. And that he should not make any trouble in the room.

But do you really attract guys with Gomez? The guy that Jersey wanted to get rid of? And now the guy that the Rangers are so glad he's gone? 'Cause at one point, you are saying that Koivu deserves more respect while Gainey doesn't seem to think he does. But in the eye of the other players, you wouldn't be more interested in a warrior that gives it all every night compared to a guy who's known to play whenever he feels like it?

I think that while more people are expressing their opinions on the trade itself, most people are also wondering what is next for tomorrow. And will adjust their thinking with what happened next. It is still a big question mark to see a guy that still had his use in Higgins and to see one of your 2 best d-men prospects being traded for a guy that the Rangers just wanted to get rid of.

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Old
06-30-2009, 09:14 PM
  #77
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So we're probably going to lose Komi and now we've lost our top D prospect. He must be planning on signing 3 defencemen tomorrow.

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Old
06-30-2009, 09:15 PM
  #78
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Since I have calmed down a bit now this will be my last comment about this trade.. If it was Higgins for Gomez straight up I could live with that deal despite Gomez's salary..Having to add McDonagh to the deal is what as me so pissed...Considering Gomez's salary Higgins straight up for him should have been more than enough since the Rags wanted his salary gone...

Welcome to the Habs Scott Gomez...Just give us 80 -85 points a year for the next 5 years and we will be very happy...

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Old
06-30-2009, 09:16 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Jagr is the only real great winger Gomez played with, but they are both puck possession type of players, of course it didn't work.
And some think that Kovalev would do good with Gomez. They are both puck ******.

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Old
06-30-2009, 09:17 PM
  #80
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BJG sez--If you can't land a LEGITIMATE #1 center, than hold onto your assets, resign Saku at a reasonable 4-4.5 million for 2-3 years and spend the real money on an elite winger. The best winger Saku ever played with consistently was Mark-Freaking-Recchi! Give him Gaborik or Hossa and Saku will net the 60 assists that Gomez never had. Then, at the deadline, you can trade your assets (including Pleks) for your center and Saku can move down to the #2 spot. And if no such center is available, then too bad. You don't make a move for the sake of making a move.

If you need a defenseman desperately and the only one available is Patrick Traverse, then you hold your cards and wait until something better comes along. You don't throw big cash at big Pat.
Sounds like a swell plan except all you are suggesting is sign koivu, save money and HOPE we can sign a UFA you mention

Now since we tried signing a name UFA the last few years without any success, with the same result we would end up pretty much in the same spot minus the UFAs we lose. And this assumes koivu wants to resign by the way. With your plan we end up with nobody possibly.

PS: Scott Gomez is not Patrick Traverse, nor is he the Traverse of centres, so drop that anology, it's pointless

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Old
06-30-2009, 09:18 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
While your post makes sense as far as why he did that trade, I believe that putting himself in desperation mode his Gainey's biggest mistakes that he only had himself to blame for. Everybody knows that Komisarek is not as bad as he showed all year. If Gainey would have signed him in December, Gainey would have been in the best situation. Now power has shift towards Komi where nobody remembers how bad he was, or if they do everybody believes it was just a fluke (see Ryder) and in the UFA market, he will get more than he ever dreamed of. Same applies with Ribeiro.....he had to get rid of him for some reasons, like right now.....well this is the result we had. And it's not solely Gainey, we all dearly remember what the Roy trade looked like when we had to get rid of him like right now.....At one point, wasn't Sather more in a desperation mode? Wasn't it obvious that he wanted desperately to send one of his highest paid guy away? I mean at one point, shouldn't the trade be Gomez AND HIS CONTRACT for Higgins and McDo? I mean that contract had to be enough for Gainey to say to Sather that you will not get my best d-man prospect. I may give you an interesting one, but surely not top 2....

But everybody who would have listened to what Pat Burns had to say and still think it makes sense for whatever reason, has to be in Gainey's family. Not a guy with a whole lot of leadership, not a guy who shows consistency, not a big scorer, not that physical, just by what he said and the tone, clearly, Gomez was not amongst his favorites. He did say though that he should get along with Martin. And that he should not make any trouble in the room.

But do you really attract guys with Gomez? The guy that Jersey wanted to get rid of? And now the guy that the Rangers are so glad he's gone? 'Cause at one point, you are saying that Koivu deserves more respect while Gainey doesn't seem to think he does. But in the eye of the other players, you wouldn't be more interested in a warrior that gives it all every night compared to a guy who's known to play whenever he feels like it?

I think that while more people are expressing their opinions on the trade itself, most people are also wondering what is next for tomorrow. And will adjust their thinking with what happened next. It is still a big question mark to see a guy that still had his use in Higgins and to see one of your 2 best d-men prospects being traded for a guy that the Rangers just wanted to get rid of.
WhiteSnakes, tells us how you really feel

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Old
06-30-2009, 09:18 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by simnorm View Post
And some think that Kovalev would do good with Gomez. They are both puck ******.
Well that's why I believe he'd have to play with Andrei Kostitsyn. You never know though. When you give Kovy good linemates he seems to pick up his play.

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Old
06-30-2009, 09:19 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by le_sean

Everyone makes it seem like Gomez is some old washed up bum who has never done anything in his career. You negate the fact that even though he only got 58 points last year he was the Rangers leading scorer. Playing in a defensive system with Zherdev and Naslund as your wingers, wow that's bound to be good for your point totals.

But I just assume none of you watch hockey anyways and actually observe Gomez play hockey.
.
Actually, in another thread I said that i was actually excited to see him play. I am aware of his playmaking skill and speed.

But when a guy is paid 7.4M$, i expect him to score at least 20-25 goals, or at least make your linemates better but for you, its okay for him to score 15 goals a season because hes a playmaker and its okay for him for not producing because his wingers suck. He's making 7.4 freaking millions a year. We are not talking about 4 millions. At that price, you have to be the top 10-15 forwards in the league. He is 151st in goals and 74th in points in the league while making 10M$ last season. Thats the highest paid player in the whole league.


While a guy like Koivu who is pretty much in the same situation than Gomez (is not paid to score goals, has decent wingers) still manage to get comparable numbers than Gomez for half price doesnt get any love just because he doesnt have any stanley cup rings.


Last edited by Stradale: 06-30-2009 at 09:31 PM.
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Old
06-30-2009, 09:20 PM
  #84
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Aside from losing Mcdonagh another thing that IRKS the hell out of me is that we just ****ing handed NYR a "get out of jail free" for STUPID contracts.

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06-30-2009, 09:20 PM
  #85
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just saw the news...initial reaction *pukes in mouth a little*

after the initial puking i'm okay with this I guess....but mcdonagh too???

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06-30-2009, 09:21 PM
  #86
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Feels like Sergei Samsonov all over again.

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Old
06-30-2009, 09:26 PM
  #87
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Feels like Sergei Samsonov all over again.
Except people loved that signing and it didn't work out. Hopefully because people hate this that it will have the opposite effect.

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Old
06-30-2009, 09:28 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
...
I am in agreement 100% with you post. The whole "best player in the deal" mantra just doesn't work in these circumstances. Scott Gomez does not put us over the top...nor does he instantly make us a free agent hotspot.

Scott Gomez keeps us afloat. Nothing more. Nothing less. We are on pretty much even ground now as we were at the end of the season with guys like Koivu and Tanguay.

We've locked up 7th-12th place in the East for the next 5 years IMO. You can't pay a guy like that the amount he's getting and expect to be a powerhouse.

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Old
06-30-2009, 09:30 PM
  #89
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Pretty surprised but we shall see what he can do

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Old
06-30-2009, 09:33 PM
  #90
le_sean
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We've locked up 7th-12th place in the East for the next 5 years IMO. You can't pay a guy like that the amount he's getting and expect to be a powerhouse.
Except for the fact the Rangers were 5th place two seasons ago and 7th last year right? Gomez really led them to perennial losing.

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06-30-2009, 09:33 PM
  #91
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Either Gainey is a genious who saw something in Gomez worth 7.3M nobody else seems to see (including me), either he's getting desperate, which I honestly thought would never happen.

I can live with parting with Higgins, But to me him and a 2nd rounder should have been enough for what is essentially a salary dump. That or Timmins has really turned sour on McDonagh (if so that looks like a wasted 12th pick).

No matter how you look at it, it makes you raise an eyebrow in disbelief. I still feel we need to get a bigger, stronger center behind Gomez (sigh, will this quest ever end?).

Hopefully the hockey staff have done their homework and think they have or will have players complementing perfectly Gomez's style of play in order to maximise his potential, otherwise I feel Gainey will need to hire a couple permanent bodyguards to walk around Montreal (not making threats, but I know about my fellow passionate hab fans ).

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Old
06-30-2009, 09:35 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
Sounds like a swell plan except all you are suggesting is sign koivu, save money and HOPE we can sign a UFA you mention

Now since we tried signing a name UFA the last few years without any success, with the same result we would end up pretty much in the same spot minus the UFAs we lose. And this assumes koivu wants to resign by the way. With your plan we end up with nobody possibly.

PS: Scott Gomez is not Patrick Traverse, nor is he the Traverse of centres, so drop that anology, it's pointless
If we can't land a scoring winger, then what is the point of getting Gomez in the first place? As people in support of this move keep pointing out, he is a passer not a scorer. If he has nobody to dish to, we are left with 15 goals for 7 million. I would just as soon keep Saku's 15 for 4 million and take his lion's heart as a bonus.

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06-30-2009, 09:35 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
While your post makes sense as far as why he did that trade, I believe that putting himself in desperation mode his Gainey's biggest mistakes that he only had himself to blame for. Everybody knows that Komisarek is not as bad as he showed all year. If Gainey would have signed him in December, Gainey would have been in the best situation. Now power has shift towards Komi where nobody remembers how bad he was, or if they do everybody believes it was just a fluke (see Ryder) and in the UFA market, he will get more than he ever dreamed of. Same applies with Ribeiro.....he had to get rid of him for some reasons, like right now.....well this is the result we had. And it's not solely Gainey, we all dearly remember what the Roy trade looked like when we had to get rid of him like right now.....At one point, wasn't Sather more in a desperation mode? Wasn't it obvious that he wanted desperately to send one of his highest paid guy away? I mean at one point, shouldn't the trade be Gomez AND HIS CONTRACT for Higgins and McDo? I mean that contract had to be enough for Gainey to say to Sather that you will not get my best d-man prospect. I may give you an interesting one, but surely not top 2....

But everybody who would have listened to what Pat Burns had to say and still think it makes sense for whatever reason, has to be in Gainey's family. Not a guy with a whole lot of leadership, not a guy who shows consistency, not a big scorer, not that physical, just by what he said and the tone, clearly, Gomez was not amongst his favorites. He did say though that he should get along with Martin. And that he should not make any trouble in the room.

But do you really attract guys with Gomez? The guy that Jersey wanted to get rid of? And now the guy that the Rangers are so glad he's gone? 'Cause at one point, you are saying that Koivu deserves more respect while Gainey doesn't seem to think he does. But in the eye of the other players, you wouldn't be more interested in a warrior that gives it all every night compared to a guy who's known to play whenever he feels like it?

I think that while more people are expressing their opinions on the trade itself, most people are also wondering what is next for tomorrow. And will adjust their thinking with what happened next. It is still a big question mark to see a guy that still had his use in Higgins and to see one of your 2 best d-men prospects being traded for a guy that the Rangers just wanted to get rid of.
The question is would the Komi camp be willing to consider a deal at that time of the season. Moreover, Keator's players always seem to go to free agency when they have teh chance to do so. As for the move today, I am starting to like it more. I beleive Gomez is a better player than Koivu at the moment and will fit in nicely with Jaques Martin. BTW, this is the same Koivu many posters in the last few days claimed was no better than a third line center. As for Briere, I would not go near him because he does not offer what Gomez offers, which is a two-way game.

If this is what it would have taken to get Gomez think about the players (Markov) we would have needed to trade for Lecavlier, that is if he was even on the trading block to begin with, which I do not think he was. I do not believe that Lawton would do a trade like the one a few season ago between the Sharks and the Bruins that involved Thornton (Sturm, Primeau, and Stuart). You cannot trade rejects and retreads and magically come up with a star player. It does not happen unless you are dealing with Mike Milbury and unfortunately he is going to provide 'exquisite' hockey coverage for TSN in the foreseeable future

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Old
06-30-2009, 09:36 PM
  #94
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We should've ****ing gotten a first rounder or/and a prospect back in return.

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06-30-2009, 09:37 PM
  #95
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I don't find the trade is THAT bad per se, it's mainly that it doesn't address any of our needs, we're getting a huge salary dump, and we lost one of our best defensive prospects in the process.

With that said, Gomez >>> Higgins.

But the contract....

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06-30-2009, 09:37 PM
  #96
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I like this deal for both sides. Montreal gets what they needed, a center, and New York gets some scoring and a good prospect.

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06-30-2009, 09:37 PM
  #97
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Aside from losing Mcdonagh another thing that IRKS the hell out of me is that we just ****ing handed NYR a "get out of jail free" for STUPID contracts.
Fast forward to 2 years later. Gomez fails to live up to 7 million dollar expectations AGAIN, and finds himself in trade talks again. The Habs unload that ridonculous contract for something like a 2nd round pick (because when the shoe's on Montreal's foot, apparently nothing else can be done). Result? Higgins, McDonagh, Valentenko, + for a 2nd round pick.

Trading too many pieces, whose values can only go up, for a player whose value can only go down... doesn't make sense on any level to me.

Tanguay - Gomez - Kovalev. Best line from the turn of the decade EVER.
Max Pac/Koivu - Pleks - A. Kost. Not going to take too much pressure off that first line.
S. Kost./Koivu - Lapierre - S.Kost/Max Pac.
Kosto - Metro - Big George.

I really don't see how Gomez helps this franchise besides the technicality that the roster players "as is" are more talented overall.

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Old
06-30-2009, 09:37 PM
  #98
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Except for the fact the Rangers were 5th place two seasons ago and 7th last year right? Gomez really led them to perennial losing.
The only reason the Rags were 5th in 07-08 was because Lundqvist played out of his mind that season.

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Old
06-30-2009, 09:43 PM
  #99
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For everyone crying about losing McDo, I went back and found this thread: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...mins+mcdonaugh

There certainly are questions about what kind of player he's going to end up being. My guess is he would not have cracked the line-up for at least 2 more years. This trade aside from the cap hit may work out for us.

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Old
06-30-2009, 09:46 PM
  #100
le_sean
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The only reason the Rags were 5th in 07-08 was because Lundqvist played out of his mind that season.
But it proves him wrong that giving a contract of that magnitude to someone means a team will suffer. Lundqvist makes like 6.5, Drury 6.5, Redden 6.5, Roszival 5, yet they still find ways to win.

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