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[MTL/NYR] Higgins/McDonagh/Janik/Valentenko for Gomez/Tom Pyatt/Busto - Part 2
The better deal in what sense? From a pure talent standpoint? That may be the case. But understand that the Rangers didn't make this trade to upgrade talent. We would have given Gomez away for very little, nothing more than cap relief. People around our team are actually clamoring for Wade Redden to be WAIVED and sent to Hartford, that's how bad our cap situation was.
Simply ridding ourselves of one of our large contracts was a coup in the eyes of Rangers fans. That we were able to acquire a good layer in Higgins, along with a good prospect, it just makes the trade look awesome to us. If Montreal can afford to pay Gomez a $7.3M cap hit, and they need his production, then good, it's a good trade for them as well.
Yes, from a talent stand point. I understand why the Rangers did it, which is why I think this trade is fair and good for both teams. Ignoring the salaries, Habs defenitly got a steal here as McDonagh is not the prospect people make him out to be. Including the salaries and teams needs, the trade is fair. I just laugh at the ignorant NHL "fans" who think the Hbas gor fleeced
I think people reach the conclusion that it is "bad" when looking at Gomez's contract. Looking purely at talent, it's a fair deal. A lot of people are just surprised that an albatross of a contract in Gomez actually received substantial compensation in a trade.
Talent wise the trade is not fair, Habs got the better deal...easily. Gomez is much better than Higgins and McDonagh doesn't compensate for the difference in talent.
Ranger fan here. I think this is a good trade for both teams.
I'm happy to be rid of Gomez. I don't know how well he would fit into Tort's system, and he clearly performed lower than his talent for the past two years. It is time for a change. Ridding his contract will give us options to get someone else. And Gomez never gelled with any Rangers wingers, too often he was piercing the offensive zone alone, and shooting a wrister into the goalies' stomach.
However, he is clearly the best player in the trade, and should fit into Montreal's speedy game. If he can gel with a couple wingers, and focuses on performing again, his points should rebound back up to PPG +. His contract isn't great, but he is a better player than he played the past couple years.
Higgens appears to have promise, and is a decent winger. I don't know much about him yet, but do recall him being aggressive on the forecheck. He should fit into Tort's system. As to the prospect - he seems to be highly rated, but certainly not a sure thing right now.
So Montreal go the best player, the Rangers got a solid NHL winger with upside, and a prospect with upside. I'm jubilant because of the change this will mean for the Rangers (and I don't doubt more is planned), but not because this was such a one-sided trade.
What happen today will most certainly help makes things clearer.
I hated giving up McDonagh as i though Higgins would be more than enough to land Gomez at his salary.
But perhaps, Just perhaps Gainey had to do it. There is 1 question frequently asked by ufas (especially wingers) when it's time to choose where they are going to sign.
Guess what, up to yesterday. The only answer Gainey could have give was: "Plekanec". A guy who just had a 39 pts season... Or Lapierre, a nice still young... 3rd liner.
At least, today he'll be able to answer: "Gomez", who's, even in a down year, rack up 42 assists. Granted, that guy cant score, but he's an assists machine, which is greatly more attractive than what Montreal previously could show.
__________
So it's either that, or Sather was looking to deal Gomez yesterday. As for the salary, like i said in another thread. For this year, who really cares about Gomez making about 3M$ more than Koivu? Lapierre improved enough last year to takes 3rd line duties, which makes Lang expendable (a 3M$ saving)...
So really, who cares? Gomez is an upgrade on Koivu, so the habs are better off today.
I echo these sentiments! I fully agree with the analysis...Lang was not in the plans from what I gather and Saku was done in Montreal.....So a center was needed and other than the Sedine package, there was nothing else in the UFA pool, for a first line center.
If they resign Kovy, he will love playing with Gomez as Gomer prefers to pass and Kovy love to convert.....
News flash, most Habs fan know **** like most fans, especially about prospects. You are certainly in that category.
McDonagh had a poor season and did not develop well, that is a FACT. Habs fan only remember Timmins comment when he was drafted 3 years ago. Lots of things have changed since
I can't wait for people to look back at this in 3-4 years and say that in the end, Habs got the better deal.
I will trust Bob Mckenzie's opinon over yours any day my friend.
I quoted this man because he is actually speaking the truth. He had a horrible year and he was actually a step back. Weber and Subban are better prospects than him at this point and Mcdonagh rating is only as high as it is because hf didn't rank him properly. Everyone follows hockeyfuture's rating religiously but it is a bit ridiculous, you'll see how useless McDonagh will be 5 years from now. He has bust written all over him.
Valentenko won't come here.... Higgins has a party reputation.
It's still a bad trade from a montreal standpoint because Gomez isn't a big center, that's only why I think this trade is stupid. The assets we got rid of though... I really don't care.
Sather did sign Gomez to a bad contract, but amazing how he not only unloaded it, but what he got in return. Great trade by Sather. And Gomez goes from the pan right into the fire. He better hope he has at least an 80 point season. Right about now, I figure he's missing New Jersey a lot. In his case, the grass sure ain't greener on the other side.
He'll love Montreal....he 'll spew all the same cliche's about the great original 6 franchise.
Montreal has a great opportunity here. They just have to find him a linemate to click with.
Maybe they should sign Gionta....maybe thats the plan
Briere is better, cheaper, AND french canadien. He could be had.
Well he was boooed in the Bell Center.....think Habs Management did not take note of that? He may be French....but he lost our inconditional support a couple of years ago...when he bailed on us....
That's why your at home and not an NHL GM. Higgins is an excellent 3rd linr or an average 2nd liner. Gomez >>>> Higgins so throwing in a prospect that's not developing so well is not the end of the world. We have Weber and Subban who have pass over McDonagh in our depth chart of prospects. I can't believe some people are trying to make this trade sound bad when its actually fair.
dude stop trying twist the facts.
yes we got the better talent but that doesnt excuse the fact that we OVERPAID.
ok, so what if McDo sucked this year? coudnt we just have kept him and not piss off 99% of the fans? who says we couldnt have gotten Gomez without including McDo? its overpaiment plain and simple.
People have to remember that it's almost impossible to land any UFA in Montreal caus of the tax. So the salary is NOT a problem in Montreal (and BTW, I'm not paying him as you do neither, so who cares...).
So keeping our money doesn't help to build a team.
Now Gomez is only 29 and he's a legitimate first line center. So I really believe that Gomez **is better than Higgins and answer a BIG NEED in MTL.
The question is how will McDonaugh progress and that will be the decision point of this trade. If he's just "good", it'll be an even trade caus Gomez will always outperformed Higgins...
And please, dont put Koivu into the equation caus everybody in MTL know that he's long gone, nomatter what happened with this team this summer...
News flash, most Habs fan know **** like most fans, especially about prospects. You are certainly in that category.
McDonagh had a poor season and did not develop well, that is a FACT. Habs fan only remember Timmins comment when he was drafted 3 years ago. Lots of things have changed since
I can't wait for people to look back at this in 3-4 years and say that in the end, Habs got the better deal.
I will trust Bob Mckenzie's opinon over yours any day my friend.
...And similar comments from the Montreal area to the effect that this was a good trade for the Canadiens.
Everything can be exaggerated, and that cuts both ways. Certainly Gomez is a good player. But I do not see that it is possible to claim that he has shown in New York that he is what the Canadiens need, namely a 1st line center. If he was, the Rangers would hardly have been trying to unload him for a long time, despite the fact that they have no better options in their lineup. If Koivu doesn't cut it, there is little reason to think he will.
7.3 million over 4 years, with a stagnant cap this year and the possibility of a declining one next year is going to hurt. That's star money. That's the sort of money that severely limits takers for Dany Heatley right now. That's the sort of money that a Sedin could be signed for, and more. That's 700k more than Jay Bouwmeester signed for. There is such a thing as overpaying for immediate improvement. Would you have been happy if the Canadiens had signed a FA like this to that kind of money? The Habs didn't just do that, they also gave up good assets.
Finally, how good does GOmez make Montreal? It's one thing to shell out overpayment and burn future assets to put you over the top when you are a real contender. That is not the case in Montreal right now. To overpay in this way and take on onerous contracts like this merely to remain a respectable team is a different story - that's the sort of thing that comes back to haunt you exactly when you've reached that level of contention.
Higgins - injury and reputation probably has hurt his trade value, I buy that. But this is still a second-line winger who would come hugely below that price tag.
McDonagh - he hasn't wowed anyone this year, but there is little reason to speak of him as if he was of no consequence. For instance, he made the top 75 in this year's THN FW, based on polling about 20 NHL scouts. It's not often you see prospects that highly regarded traded, and whether Montreal management believes in him or not, he's a good asset.
NY had a very strict game plan under Renney...it was also just a very defensive game plan. Calling it a free for all is ignorant
That style probably didn't help Gomez, but he also struggled on his own, making many bad decisions and generally not playing well for long stretches. He may have been hurt for a decent part of the season.
I don't agree at all, I think Renney's gameplan might have been one of the most offensive in the entire NHL -- definitly the most offensive in many areas. I think its very ignorant to say that it wasn't. Besides for the D's who Renney held back.
Like when Straka-Nyls-JJ played Renney's gameplan not a sole called Tom defensive minded. But when he had Dawes-Gomez-Callahan as his 1st line, then guys like Drury who never have scored 70 pts and Näslund who had two 55 pts seasons in Vancouver he suddenly became defensive?
Torts is supposed to be very offensive minded and he had a much better team then Renney (Antropov, Avery and Morris) and his team still couldn't score nor even gets shots on goal in the PO's.
Another fact is that the highest scoring player in almost 100 year history of the NYR played for Tom Renney. A coach is just not defensive because he have a team that can't score.
I think people reach the conclusion that it is "bad" when looking at Gomez's contract. Looking purely at talent, it's a fair deal. A lot of people are just surprised that an albatross of a contract in Gomez actually received substantial compensation in a trade.
Its only an "albatross" in NY due their strings of "albatross". Gomez at 7.3M cap hit is not that bad at all. Given that we had no #1 or #2 center (Please, Plek is not that kind, yet) this deal is a blessing for Montreal.
Higgins is small, has no real obvious talent (as it turns out, disco'ing is his real talent) and comes off an horrible year where even his "dancing" was atrocious! Mcdo had a dismal year and Valen is in Russia...suspended.... all of this made it an easy decision for Montreal.....
Gomez was a superstar before playing in a bad organization and the hope is that he will be himself in Montreal. Since the system played here resemble that of NJ where Gomer was a great asset, it is resonable to assume that he will do the same in Montreal. The fact that he could not play in a planless system as NY was before Tort is not a blemish on him but rather on the Rangers.....
Talent wise the trade is not fair, Habs got the better deal...easily. Gomez is much better than Higgins and McDonagh doesn't compensate for the difference in talent.
I don't know, you seem to think more highly of Gomez than most, and seem to be more down on McDonagh that most. I'm not saying your feelings on the two are inaccurate, just a bit different than the consensus.
yes we got the better talent but that doesnt excuse the fact that we OVERPAID.
ok, so what if McDo sucked this year? coudnt we just have kept him and not piss off 99% of the fans? who says we couldnt have gotten Gomez without including McDo? its overpaiment plain and simple.
Overpaid? Oh please, get a grip!
You get first line talent and dish out.....3rd line talent and a kid still in US College and you call that overpaying? wow....for analysis, you get zero.....
I don't know, you seem to think more highly of Gomez than most, and seem to be more down on McDonagh that most. I'm not saying your feelings on the two are inaccurate, just a bit different than the consensus.
Thing is, consensus works only when it is focused. seen any focus here? The real consensus is in the newsprints and sports pundits....and they seem to all agree....great deal for Montreal.....and great deal for NY (But because they are dumping salary, not because they aquired talent).....Read what is being published on this trade.....only here in HF where this deal is deemed bad.....so, when it comes to concensus, I will stick with the experts in real life...not the pseudo self annointed experts in here (I am not meaning you).....
Well, Gainey obviously believes in Gomez, and thinks he can be a 70 point centreman again. I will say this, he's durable and eats up a lot of minutes, which is something Montreal lacked. He'll improve their team this year, no doubt about it.
Still, Higgins is a fantastic hockey player who is getting a bad rap from Montreal fans unnecessarily. I think he'll have an even better season than Ryder had last year, we've seen this story before. As far as McDonagh goes, he's still a prospect with a lot of value. You could probably acquire a decent centreman with McDonagh alone, without having to take on a bad contract and give up Higgins. Any way you look at it, this is a terrible trade by Gainey.
Its only an "albatross" in NY due their strings of "albatross". Gomez at 7.3M cap hit is not that bad at all. Given that we had no #1 or #2 center (Please, Plek is not that kind, yet) this deal is a blessing for Montreal.
Higgins is small, has no real obvious talent (as it turns out, disco'ing is his real talent) and comes off an horrible year where even his "dancing" was atrocious! Mcdo had a dismal year and Valen is in Russia...suspended.... all of this made it an easy decision for Montreal.....
Gomez was a superstar before playing in a bad organization and the hope is that he will be himself in Montreal. Since the system played here resemble that of NJ where Gomer was a great asset, it is resonable to assume that he will do the same in Montreal. The fact that he could not play in a planless system as NY was before Tort is not a blemish on him but rather on the Rangers.....
I don't know, I think a cap hit of $7.3M should be reserved for elite players, and I don't think Gomez is elite.
Also, what makes us a "bad" organization? We haven't missed the playoffs since Gomez arrived.
And lastly, referring to the Rangers under Tom Renney as a team with a "planless" system it simply ridiculous. We had one of the most rigid systems in the game for three years. And of course, the system was modeled after New Jersey. Do you know how many times we were called the "Devile Lite" under Tom Renney, or how many times Devils fans would criticize us for adopting a system identical to the one we had ridiculed for so long?
If you dislike the Rangers, that's fine, but please do your homework before making such outlandish statements.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper
Thing is, consensus works only when it is focused. seen any focus here? The real consensus is in the newsprints and sports pundits....and they seem to all agree....great deal for Montreal.....and great deal for NY (But because they are dumping salary, not because they aquired talent).....Read what is being published on this trade.....only here in HF where this deal is deemed bad.....so, when it comes to concensus, I will stick with the experts in real life...not the pseudo self annointed experts in here (I am not meaning you).....
Believe me, I'm the last person to buy into HF hype. But to be honest, I've seen just as much panning of the Gomez trade in the mainstream media as I have praise (from a Montreal perspective).
You get first line talent and dish out.....3rd line talent and a kid still in US College and you call that overpaying? wow....for analysis, you get zero.....
I thought the beef with Gomez was that he's getting paid #1 center money but isn't a number one center. Now that he is a Hab he's a great #1 center. Did I miss something
Henrik Sedin is a significantly better player than Gomez. Add in that if the Habs were willing to commit to the Sedin's long term, the cap hit for both those guys would have been Gomez + $3M (which doesn't get you much on the UFA market in case you don't remember).
I just don't see the need to do the deal the day before you have a chance to talk to UFA's. It's not like the Rangers had a ton of people knocking their door down for Gomez.
Briere as a NTC and doesn't want to come to Mtl. Besides, the guy is always injured, Gomez never. And only 800K cheaper.
Please try again.
If Briere was to waive his NMC, I'd be willing to bet Montreal would be one he'd consider.
He's only missed significant time twice in the past 5 years, and it wasn't as if they were different injuries. It was one inury that was particularly bad.
Gabrorik is always injured. Havlat is always injured.
Thing is, consensus works only when it is focused. seen any focus here? The real consensus is in the newsprints and sports pundits....and they seem to all agree....great deal for Montreal.....and great deal for NY (But because they are dumping salary, not because they aquired talent).....Read what is being published on this trade....
Not true. McKenzie was diplomatic about the trade, like he always is, but Pierre McGuire slammed it on the radio, and Scott Cullen was extremely critical about it on TSN. Typically he's very even-keeled, I've never seen him this critical of a trade in recent years. I haven't seen a lot of positive reaction towards the deal from Montreal's end.
