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[MTL/NYR] Higgins/McDonagh/Janik/Valentenko for Gomez/Tom Pyatt/Busto - Part 2

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Old
07-01-2009, 10:00 AM
  #76
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Im amazed that some people are calling Gomez a 1st line center. They are in for a rude awakening next season...
Well the rangers might have made him look bad...but that opinion matters not.....who care about the Rangers? Gomez was a star for many years and has great years in NJ to speak off.....he is a prime talent.....the rude awakening is when your GM signs multiple guys at multiple millions for multiple years.....and get stuck with 4-5 guys eating up 60% of your cap money.....NOW THAT is a rude awakening.....its screws up your perspective.....since are you are so tight against the cap, any relief is a good one....even sending a first line talent...for 3rd line talent and a kid that may or may not ever play in the NHL.......

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07-01-2009, 10:00 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Not true. McKenzie was diplomatic about the trade, like he always is, but Pierre McGuire slammed it on the radio, and Scott Cullen was extremely critical about it on TSN. Typically he's very even-keeled, I've never seen him this critical of a trade in recent years. I haven't seen a lot of positive reaction towards the deal from Montreal's end.

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/scott_cullen/?id=283349
Probably because most people believe Gomez's contract is a bad one, and from there the next step is that if you give up decent assets in a trade for a bad contract, you made a mistake.

It's not necessarily a big mistake for Montreal, but I think it's more return than most people would have thought possible for Gomez (well, most people thought no one had interest in Gomez, considering his salary)

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07-01-2009, 10:03 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
Well the rangers might have made him look bad...but that opinion matters not.....who care about the Rangers? Gomez was a star for many years and has great years in NJ to speak off.....he is a prime talent.....the rude awakening is when your GM signs multiple guys at multiple millions for multiple years.....and get stuck with 4-5 guys eating up 60% of your cap money.....NOW THAT is a rude awakening.....its screws up your perspective.....since are you are so tight against the cap, any relief is a good one....even sending a first line talent...for 3rd line talent and a kid that may or may not ever play in the NHL.......
OK, well I hope Scotty Gomez lives up to your expectations of a first line superstar. Good luck!

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07-01-2009, 10:03 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Probably because most people believe Gomez's contract is a bad one, and from there the next step is that if you give up decent assets in a trade for a bad contract, you made a mistake.

It's not necessarily a big mistake for Montreal, but I think it's more return than most people would have thought possible for Gomez (well, most people thought no one had interest in Gomez, considering his salary)
Yeah, exactly. If Gomez can put up a 70 point pace over the next five years there's nothing terribly wrong with this deal. If he has a rough year, scores 55-60 points, and gets booed mercilessly by the Bell Centre faithful, this deal is an unmitigated disaster.

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07-01-2009, 10:04 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
even sending a first line talent...for 3rd line talent and a kid that may or may not ever play in the NHL.......
Higgins is NOT a third line talent. He had one bad year, but he's at worst a second line talent, with potential to be a first line player. I'm baffled at how quickly people have turned on him.

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07-01-2009, 10:05 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Yeah, exactly. If Gomez can put up a 70 point pace over the next five years there's nothing terribly wrong with this deal. If he has a rough year, scores 55-60 points, and gets booed mercilessly by the Bell Centre faithful, this deal is an unmitigated disaster.
He put up 70 points in his first year with the Rangers, despite not clicking terribly well with anyone for an extended period of time. I think he can easily hit 70-80 again.

Like I said before, his value to the Rangers just diminished a lot because they couldn't get the right wingers for him. Having another 5 years on his contract doesn't help either.

Maybe if they could have gotten the correct wingers for him, then this all works out better for the Rangers in the first place. But it's pretty obvious that Gomez can't just play with any wingers...

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07-01-2009, 10:11 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
He put up 70 points in his first year with the Rangers, despite not clicking terribly well with anyone for an extended period of time. I think he can easily hit 70-80 again.

Like I said before, his value to the Rangers just diminished a lot because they couldn't get the right wingers for him. Having another 5 years on his contract doesn't help either.

Maybe if they could have gotten the correct wingers for him, then this all works out better for the Rangers in the first place. But it's pretty obvious that Gomez can't just play with any wingers...
And we never could figure out who that winger would be. He had Jagr, Shanahan, Straka, Drury, Naslund, Antropov... I don't remember which of those guys he clicked with, bt it never seemed like it was for any prolonged period of time.

FWIW, I like Gomez. He's a very good player, as I;ve said before. I just don't think he's elite.

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Old
07-01-2009, 10:12 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
Its only an "albatross" in NY due their strings of "albatross". Gomez at 7.3M cap hit is not that bad at all.
The guy has the 10th highest cap hit in the ENTIRE league. He isn't even close to being a top 10 player. I think it's a fair assumption to say it's a pretty bad cap hit.

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07-01-2009, 10:14 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Higgins is NOT a third line talent. He had one bad year, but he's at worst a second line talent, with potential to be a first line player. I'm baffled at how quickly people have turned on him.
one career season over 40 points makes him a legit 2nd liner? He managed to score 20 goals riding shotgun with Koivu, but the guy cannot play on the 2nd line on a contending team.

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07-01-2009, 10:15 AM
  #85
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Boy, this is like the night after a party.. last night everyone (especially Habs fans) were rioting and going crazy. It's almost like the Kadri drafting 2.0. But not quite.

People are talking about McDonagh's sub-par year, but did Gomez have a stellar season? A season meriting a 7+ million dollar contract? The contract is considered an albatross for a reason - the salary doesn't match the talent level. The guy is a good player, and yes, the best overall player in the deal, but he's a peripheral first-line guy at best that's getting a bonafide first-line paycheque. McDonagh may have had his hurdles last year, but what young prospect doesn't? People were cherishing him beyond and above Subban in most trade proposals. For a team that has watched defenseman drive off their lot like a used car dealership, a team that could potentially watch Komisarek walk today, it's not hard to understand why so many Habs fans cherished what was (and still could be) a very solid blue-line prospect.

All of a sudden he's projected to be "decent," when before he was virtually untouchable unless a player of superstar caliber was involved.

If you want to put a positive spin on this trade, look at it this way - Gainey must think you're ready to compete for the big prize, and he's willing to make the sacrifices required to get a lot better in the short-term. Most teams reach that point eventually (unless you're Los Angeles - err, sorry), and the Gomez trade does that. I admire his guts, but as others have mentioned, I think he could've got Scotty Gomez for a lot less.

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07-01-2009, 10:15 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
Well the rangers might have made him look bad...but that opinion matters not.....who care about the Rangers? Gomez was a star for many years and has great years in NJ to speak off.....he is a prime talent.....the rude awakening is when your GM signs multiple guys at multiple millions for multiple years.....and get stuck with 4-5 guys eating up 60% of your cap money.....NOW THAT is a rude awakening.....its screws up your perspective.....since are you are so tight against the cap, any relief is a good one....even sending a first line talent...for 3rd line talent and a kid that may or may not ever play in the NHL.......
You really are not only delusional, but awful at defending one of the worst deals since the lockout. If you're going to try to spin this crap, at least make it believable.

You got owned. End of story. Most of the NHL is laughing at Gainey, regardless of what you think. Maybe you should advise him of his next move , so we can all laugh for a second day.

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07-01-2009, 10:17 AM
  #87
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OK, well I hope Scotty Gomez lives up to your expectations of a first line superstar. Good luck!
Believe me, I share in that hope but at least, he had done it before...(carry his team, I mean)..... That cannot be said of what we sent out.....if Mcdo becomes a star, I will revisit my viewpoint...but until he even plays in the league, I will continue to believe that Montreal paid a cheap price for a first line talent....notwidthstanding his contract......

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07-01-2009, 10:18 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
Well the rangers might have made him look bad...but that opinion matters not.....who care about the Rangers? Gomez was a star for many years and has great years in NJ to speak off.....he is a prime talent.....the rude awakening is when your GM signs multiple guys at multiple millions for multiple years.....and get stuck with 4-5 guys eating up 60% of your cap money.....NOW THAT is a rude awakening.....its screws up your perspective.....since are you are so tight against the cap, any relief is a good one....even sending a first line talent...for 3rd line talent and a kid that may or may not ever play in the NHL.......
No, that's not a rude awakening. A rude awakening is when you blindly expect something and then come to a realization that your expectation was ludicrous.

Have you ever looked at his numbers? Save for the fluke season when he had 30+ goals, his numbers for his 2 seasons in NY are right on par with what he did EVERY season in New Jersey. Guess what? The 70 points Gomez had in his first season in NY are tied for his CAREER HIGH save for that fluke season in 2006.

Montreal fans are hilarious. Enjoy your Fools Gold.

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07-01-2009, 10:19 AM
  #89
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This is hilarious because everyone thought it was NJ's system that was holding back Gomez from scoring. Once they overpaid for him, they realized what a bum he is.

Now one sucker passes the hot potato to another sucker.

Making Lou look like a real genius right now.

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07-01-2009, 10:20 AM
  #90
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Higgins is NOT a third line talent. He had one bad year, but he's at worst a second line talent, with potential to be a first line player. I'm baffled at how quickly people have turned on him.
Well we seem him play here in Montreal....and we saw him work his way to the 3rd and sometimes 4th line......so yeah, he is no TOP 6 performer.....under any light!

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07-01-2009, 10:21 AM
  #91
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one career season over 40 points makes him a legit 2nd liner? He managed to score 20 goals riding shotgun with Koivu, but the guy cannot play on the 2nd line on a contending team.
Since when is riding shotgun with Koivu a ticket to goal-scoring success? Lets put it this way. He's been in the NHL for four seasons, and this was the first year where he scored under 20 goals. Coincidentally, he was also injured for large stretches of the season, and struggled to find his game when he was healthy. I think he's a very safe bet to be the Rangers leading goal scorer next year, which is nothing to sneeze at.

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07-01-2009, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
Well we seem him play here in Montreal....and we saw him work his way to the 3rd and sometimes 4th line......so yeah, he is no TOP 6 performer.....under any light!
If he was still a Hab you wouldn't be saying that.

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07-01-2009, 10:22 AM
  #93
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Higgins is NOT a third line talent. He had one bad year, but he's at worst a second line talent, with potential to be a first line player. I'm baffled at how quickly people have turned on him.
I'm baffled that some fans ever saw him as a potential 1st liner and even a 2nd liner. The guy is an excellent 3rd liner or average 2nd liner. He doesn't have the skills to be a 1st liner, that's for sure.

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07-01-2009, 10:23 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
Well we seem him play here in Montreal....and we saw him work his way to the 3rd and sometimes 4th line......so yeah, he is no TOP 6 performer.....under any light!
...and with that logic, we've seen Gomez plenty here in NY and when he was in NJ... so yeah, and he's no 1st liner.... under any light!

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07-01-2009, 10:24 AM
  #95
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The guy has the 10th highest cap hit in the ENTIRE league. He isn't even close to being a top 10 player. I think it's a fair assumption to say it's a pretty bad cap hit.
His cap hit is 7.3M. Thanks for pointing out how horrible NY is at managing contracts....

However, we have tons of cap space in Montreal. His contract is less of an issue for us as we managed our cap space far better than what we see in Ranger's land over the years.

Additionally, his money/contract does not take away the fact that we got 1st line talent for 3rd line talent and a US College player who may or may not play in the NHL one day.....

So a great day indeed for the Habs fans.....

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07-01-2009, 10:24 AM
  #96
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I'm baffled that some fans ever saw him as a potential 1st liner and even a 2nd liner. The guy is an excellent 3rd liner or average 2nd liner. He doesn't have the skills to be a 1st liner, that's for sure.
Well, I'm no Habs fan, but I always thought he was a second line talent with potential for a first line role. All of my friends are Habs fans, so I watch a lot of games, and I really believe in Higgins.

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07-01-2009, 10:24 AM
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Am I the only one who thinks Sather wanted one of McDonagh or Subban and the Habs management decided to keep Subban? That's how I see it.

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07-01-2009, 10:26 AM
  #98
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I'm baffled that some fans ever saw him as a potential 1st liner and even a 2nd liner. The guy is an excellent 3rd liner or average 2nd liner. He doesn't have the skills to be a 1st liner, that's for sure.
We're in need of some wingers that can score, so a decent second line player is fine by me. Honestly, if the guy nets 20-25 goals with 20-25 assists, I think Rangers fans will be plenty happy. We're such a pitiful offensive team.

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07-01-2009, 10:27 AM
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MTL Digging themselves in their hole even deeper.

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07-01-2009, 10:27 AM
  #100
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...and with that logic, we've seen Gomez plenty here in NY and when he was in NJ... so yeah, and he's no 1st liner.... under any light!
Funny, his two stanley cup rings and his Jersey stats sure speaks otherwise.....Funny how winners seem to thrive and win when inserted in a winner's environment....Bet on a big year for Gomer.....

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