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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Report: Kolnik would break ranks

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Old
10-19-2004, 05:27 PM
  #76
Cawz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shveik
From the tone and the wording of many angry posts get nothing but the envy. This type of envy, towards the people that used to be one of the working class, but who have achieved something through the talent and lots of hard work, is not so "logical".
I'm not sure what envy has to do with it. Can you show me which angry posts you are referring to? They are the vast minority, the people who simply say "fire them all, they are paid too much, I'd play for half that amount blah blah blah." Youre mistaking this message board for the TSN or ESPN ones. Go read those boards and you'll see some stupid uninformed people.

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10-19-2004, 05:39 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Cawz
Right now, hes pretty much the major reason for the downfall of the league. Please notice that all the "great" things you mentioned he did, happened before he helped engineer 2 work stopages and exploading salaries beyond revenues.
Sorry, I'm not following your reasoning. Did he not play by the rulebook? He didn't leave those contractual loopholes in the CBA. That was your buddy Brian Burke (NHL's head negotiator at the time). Burke got pwd3d.

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10-19-2004, 05:51 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman
He didn't leave those contractual loopholes in the CBA.
Exactly. And he led his group into 2 recent work stoppages to ensure the loopholes remain.

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10-19-2004, 05:59 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Cawz
Exactly. And he led his group into 2 recent work stoppages to ensure the loopholes remain.
Again you are mistaken. It was at the NHL's request that the CBA was extended.

Your attempts to demonize Bob Goodenow are laughable.

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10-19-2004, 06:03 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman
Again you are mistaken. It was at the NHL's request that the CBA was extended.

Your attempts to demonize Bob Goodenow are laughable.
can we get a sound byte?


It was Goodenow who led his union in this work stopage by not taking any measures whatsoever towards planning negociations.

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10-19-2004, 06:07 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by littleHossa
It was Goodenow who led his union in this work stopage by not taking any measures whatsoever towards planning negociations.
How can you "lead" a union to a lock-out? A lock-out is employer-invoked. The players themselves never voted on anything.

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10-19-2004, 06:22 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman
Again you are mistaken. It was at the NHL's request that the CBA was extended.

Your attempts to demonize Bob Goodenow are laughable.
No, youre funnier.

Youre reply doesnt even make sence. Are you using the Chewbacca defence?

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Old
10-19-2004, 06:31 PM
  #83
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleHossa
What would be the true reason most people are siding with the owners? The envy goes both ways like you said.
Simply put, I believe many fans think the product is way more enjoyable when there are no off-ice issues for players to whine and complain about.

No holding out, no demanding trades, no coaches having to perpetually bend over when the whip should be cracking left and right. No Gaborik, Havlat sitting for more money, no dumping of stars just because you might not be making the playoffs in a few months. No prospects that are ready for the NHL but sit on their ass taking less money to play in inferior leagues and no stinking, disruptive bonus clauses.

I think people want more continuity in their teams and players that are more straightforward and do not get agents while in diapers and proceed for the rest of their lives to ask them permission before they go take a ****ing leak.

We had way more consumate, loyal NHLers and teams that had real, stable identities when the players were getting screwed than we have today as the owners are getting screwed. It wasn't perfect and there were incidents but they were not nearly as frequent as they are today.

Fans can moan about price ticket or the fact these guys are being paid sometimes 6-figure salaries a night but those things aren't really the problem IMO. It's not that much about the perception the fan has of him VS the player but more the perception he has of the player VS the product we get right now.

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10-19-2004, 06:57 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
We had way more consumate, loyal NHLers and teams that had real, stable identities when the players were getting screwed than we have today as the owners are getting screwed. It wasn't perfect and there were incidents but they were not nearly as frequent as they are today.
Yes, and nothing would be finer than to pack the family into the ol' Edsel, head off to Mr. Eaton's store, buy that Silvertone Radio and listen to ol' Foster Hewitt call that Saturday night game too.

Society has changed and so has the games they follow.

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10-19-2004, 08:13 PM
  #85
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Both of your post Vlad and the percieved reason why the fans don't side with the players are the same thing, they can be traced to greed, egotism, selfishness. A fan doesn't want to see those traits in their heros, whether it is when asking for a new contract or being self-centered or disrespectful to the people around him. Not every answer has to be this complicated, and they can be simplified to a few words only, which can even teach us that we're all talking about the same thing in the end.

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10-20-2004, 12:32 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Simply put, I believe many fans think the product is way more enjoyable when there are no off-ice issues for players to whine and complain about.

No holding out, no demanding trades, no coaches having to perpetually bend over when the whip should be cracking left and right. No Gaborik, Havlat sitting for more money, no dumping of stars just because you might not be making the playoffs in a few months. No prospects that are ready for the NHL but sit on their ass taking less money to play in inferior leagues and no stinking, disruptive bonus clauses.
There would be no off-ice issues in one case only: if both the owners and the players are the impeccable characters magically transferred into our world from the pages of a comic book.

Quote:
We had way more consumate, loyal NHLers and teams that had real, stable identities when the players were getting screwed than we have today as the owners are getting screwed. It wasn't perfect and there were incidents but they were not nearly as frequent as they are today.
Let us clarify: we did not have more wholesome characters playing hockey in older times. These issues were not in the open for one reason only: the players did not think they had the power to improve their situation. But there is still a lot to enjoy in hockey even without this delusion of players being some kind of a cross between Superman and Jesus. There is still occasional display of incredible skill, and, sometimes, there are brief moments of glory and sacrifice. It is just incredibly naive to expect the players to be in this state 100% of the time, on or off the ice.

This is also a business. It used to be only owners who always remembered that. Now the players are quite aware of that too, and by the looks of it managed to get an upper hand. Which in my opinion is quite admirable, because it really took some guts and solidarity in the players ranks to pull this off. But I think the fans should also remember that this is business too, and remember what our interests are. For example, how about a boycott of the games until the ticket prices are lowered?

Quote:
Fans can moan about price ticket or the fact these guys are being paid sometimes 6-figure salaries a night but those things aren't really the problem IMO. It's not that much about the perception the fan has of him VS the player but more the perception he has of the player VS the product we get right now.
Do you think that maybe some fans lived in a dreamworld for too long now?

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