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Old
07-02-2009, 05:45 AM
  #101
Rick Deckard
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Six Top-Six Forwards
Daniel Briere -- 6.500.000
Mike Richards -- 5.750.000
Simon Gagne -- 5.250.000
Jeff Carter -- 5.000.000
Scott Hartnell -- 4.200.000
Claude Giroux -- 821.667
Sum: 27.521.667

Five Bottom-Six Forwards
Ian Laperierre -- 1.166.667
Daniel Carcillo -- 893.750
Jon Kalinski -- 875.000
Arron Asham -- 640.000
Darroll Powe -- 520.000
Sum: 4.095.417

Six Defensemen
Kimmo Timonen -- 6.333.333
Chris Pronger -- 6.250.000
Matt Carle -- 3.437.500
Randy Jones -- 2.750.000
Braydon Coburn -- 1.300.000
Ryan Parent -- 855.000
Sum: 20.925.833

13th Forward/7th Defenseman
Riley Cote -- 550.000
Sum: 550.000

Two Goaltender
Ray Emery -- 1.500.000
Brian Boucher -- 925.000
Sum: 2.425.000

27.521.667 <== Six Top-Six Forwards
04.095.417 <== Five Bottom-Six Forwards
20.925.833 <== Six Defensemen
00.550.000 <== 13th Forward / 7th Defenseman
02.425.000 <== Two Goaltender
55.517.917

56.800.000 <== Upper Limit
55.517.917 <== Twenty Players
01.283.083 <== Cap Space

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07-02-2009, 07:37 AM
  #102
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Matt Carle -- 3.437.500
Randy Jones -- 2.750.000

Holy smokes that's alot of money for a 3rd pair.

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07-02-2009, 07:50 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kicksave27 View Post
Matt Carle -- 3.437.500
Randy Jones -- 2.750.000

Holy smokes that's alot of money for a 3rd pair.
That's why so many people want to see them gone asap. I can only agree with them. We could probably facilitate a decent third pair for Jones total salary. At least he will be off the books next season but Carle's contract is lasting longer and I can see him get traded this season.

Homer will be busy re-signing a defense this season as everybody but Carle and Kimmo are in their final year of their contracts. At least Coburn and Parent are both RFAs. Pronger will need some evaluation time though.

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07-02-2009, 07:52 AM
  #104
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At least one of them has to go. I'd prefer Carle be the one because Jones' contract is up next year while Carle is on the hook for 3 more years. I'd prefer to see both gone.

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07-02-2009, 08:16 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kicksave27 View Post
Matt Carle -- 3.437.500
Randy Jones -- 2.750.000

Holy smokes that's alot of money for a 3rd pair.
Who says that's the 3rd pairing?

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Old
07-02-2009, 08:29 AM
  #106
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Who says that's the 3rd pairing?
Exactly. It's kinda cute how you guys think Carle will no doubt be bottom pairing. Parent was put with Timonen because Timonen could cover Parent's mistakes. Stevens said it himself.

Coburn-Timonen
Pronger-Carle
Jones-Parent

Every pairing has defense and decent-good puck movement.

They might go with this defense and keep Carle until Pronger signs an extension. If Pronger re-ups, expect Carle moved by next July.

Two pairings I really DON'T want to see:

Pronger-Timonen unless it's the last minute of a game, these two need to be separated to make two number 1 pairings.

Pronger-Coburn we need to split up our most physical guys. Otherwise teams will still headhunt Timonen. I'd prefer Timonen-Coburn to re-kindle the magic of that pairing. Plus, Coburn gets a front row seat at the Pronger show. Even if he isn't on stage.

However, I'm sure Coburn and Pronger will logs some minutes together. Situationally, it will happen.

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07-02-2009, 08:43 AM
  #107
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Carle will need to be traded after this season anyway, but holding onto him now will hopefgully only raise his value.

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Old
07-02-2009, 09:30 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by chaosof99 View Post
That's why so many people want to see them gone asap. I can only agree with them. We could probably facilitate a decent third pair for Jones total salary. At least he will be off the books next season but Carle's contract is lasting longer and I can see him get traded this season.

Homer will be busy re-signing a defense this season as everybody but Carle and Kimmo are in their final year of their contracts. At least Coburn and Parent are both RFAs. Pronger will need some evaluation time though.
Agreed.

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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
Who says that's the 3rd pairing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Exactly. It's kinda cute how you guys think Carle will no doubt be bottom pairing. Parent was put with Timonen because Timonen could cover Parent's mistakes. Stevens said it himself.

Coburn-Timonen
Pronger-Carle
Jones-Parent

Every pairing has defense and decent-good puck movement.

They might go with this defense and keep Carle until Pronger signs an extension. If Pronger re-ups, expect Carle moved by next July.

Two pairings I really DON'T want to see:

Pronger-Timonen unless it's the last minute of a game, these two need to be separated to make two number 1 pairings.

Pronger-Coburn we need to split up our most physical guys. Otherwise teams will still headhunt Timonen. I'd prefer Timonen-Coburn to re-kindle the magic of that pairing. Plus, Coburn gets a front row seat at the Pronger show. Even if he isn't on stage.

However, I'm sure Coburn and Pronger will logs some minutes together. Situationally, it will happen.
I dont care if Jones/Carle are our top pairing....We cant compete for the cup with the bottom 6 we have at the moment....If we can improve the bottom 6 and keep both of those guys so be it, I just dont see how that is possible. If one of them needs to be moved I rather Carle cause his contract has implications after this year when we need to re-sign Pronger, Coburn and Parent.....Jones does not.

It has nothing to do with the caliber of the players. If there was no cap I would easily say keep them, but unfortunately it isnt 2004 anymore.

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07-02-2009, 09:36 AM
  #109
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It has nothing to do with the caliber of the players. If there was no cap I would easily say keep them, but unfortunately it isnt 2004 anymore.
Isn't this the precise reason (because of the salary cap) why it's incredibly difficult to have 4 solid forward lines, 3 solid defense lines and two capable goalies? Each team has a weakness.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I don't see Holmgren going out and getting this 3rd line centerman that the majority of board covets when most line predictions have 4 centers on the top 3 lines. (Note: I saw your post in the Line Predictions thread)

Doesn't mean it won't happen, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

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07-02-2009, 09:46 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
Isn't this the precise reason (because of the salary cap) why it's incredibly difficult to have 4 solid forward lines, 3 solid defense lines and two capable goalies? Each team has a weakness.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I don't see Holmgren going out and getting this 3rd line centerman that the majority of board covets when most line predictions have 4 centers on the top 3 lines. (Note: I saw your post in the Line Predictions thread)

Doesn't mean it won't happen, but It just doesn't make sense to me.
But we dont have 4 centers in the top 6....Briere is apparently a winger on this team now, that is what he played last year....and Giroux was drafted as a RW. You cant go into the season with Lappy and Asham as your top two RWs, that will be a disaster.

I love the whole theory of rolling out "pairs of players" and spreading out the offense like Detroit always does, but we dont have a Cleary, Holmstrom, Samuellsson, Hudler to rotate among the wing positions. This is one of my biggest issues with the moron coach on this team, he doesnt know how to get the most out of his lineup.

I dont disagree that it is difficult to have 4 solid forward lines and 3 solid defensive pairing, but it isnt difficult to have 3 solid forward lines and 2 solid defensive pairing which is what we would have if we move Carle for a 3rd line forward.

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07-02-2009, 09:52 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
But we dont have 4 centers in the top 6....Briere is apparently a winger on this team now, that is what he played last year....and Giroux was drafted as a RW. You cant go into the season with Lappy and Asham as your top two RWs, that will be a disaster.

I love the whole theory of rolling out "pairs of players" and spreading out the offense like Detroit always does, but we dont have a Cleary, Holmstrom, Samuellsson, Hudler to rotate among the wing positions. This is one of my biggest issues with the moron coach on this team, he doesnt know how to get the most out of his lineup.

I dont disagree that it is difficult to have 4 solid forward lines and 3 solid defensive pairing, but it isnt difficult to have 3 solid forward lines and 2 solid defensive pairing which is what we would have if we move Carle for a 3rd line forward.
Fair enough, understood and for the most part, agreed.

While I think most of us agree that Carle is the contract that would be more beneficial to have moved...I think we'd be a better team if we waived Jones and used that money to solidify the forward group.

I like the defense as...

Timonen - Coburn
Pronger - Carle
Player 'X' - Parent

Who the money saved could get you to fill out the forwards, I don't know. Can you fit Malhotra (and/or player 'x'?) in with Jones' money?

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07-02-2009, 10:14 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
But we dont have 4 centers in the top 6....Briere is apparently a winger on this team now, that is what he played last year....and Giroux was drafted as a RW. You cant go into the season with Lappy and Asham as your top two RWs, that will be a disaster.

I love the whole theory of rolling out "pairs of players" and spreading out the offense like Detroit always does, but we dont have a Cleary, Holmstrom, Samuellsson, Hudler to rotate among the wing positions. This is one of my biggest issues with the moron coach on this team, he doesnt know how to get the most out of his lineup.

I dont disagree that it is difficult to have 4 solid forward lines and 3 solid defensive pairing, but it isnt difficult to have 3 solid forward lines and 2 solid defensive pairing which is what we would have if we move Carle for a 3rd line forward.
It's not a theory mike, the coach said so himself. His words just a few days ago were that he likes Giroux at centre with Briere on the wing. It doesn't matter where he was drafted, it appears this team wants him at centre. It's not such a bad idea the way he distributes the puck.

I think it's such BS that Jones is still on this roster when his money could have gone to Knuble. That way your first and third lines from last year are still together and the only need is filling Lupul's spot.

But seriously, it's time to get over this idea that we're going to cram the top 6 with our high priced players and have two lines of fairly crappy, physical players that can't score.

It's much more reasonable to split up our best six guys across three lines and put a plugger on the wing to do the dirty work and get to the net.

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Old
07-02-2009, 10:43 AM
  #113
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It's not a theory mike, the coach said so himself. His words just a few days ago were that he likes Giroux at centre with Briere on the wing. It doesn't matter where he was drafted, it appears this team wants him at centre. It's not such a bad idea the way he distributes the puck.

I think it's such BS that Jones is still on this roster when his money could have gone to Knuble. That way your first and third lines from last year are still together and the only need is filling Lupul's spot.

But seriously, it's time to get over this idea that we're going to cram the top 6 with our high priced players and have two lines of fairly crappy, physical players that can't score.

It's much more reasonable to split up our best six guys across three lines and put a plugger on the wing to do the dirty work and get to the net.
Again, we talked about this in the other thread....Get me the wingers that can acutally do that and I am fine with it. We cant afford it right now and those guys are not on the roster.

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Old
07-02-2009, 02:23 PM
  #114
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http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=658913

This could be good for us assuming JVR has bonuses on his contract, and assuming he makes the team

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Old
07-02-2009, 04:59 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
It's not a theory mike, the coach said so himself. His words just a few days ago were that he likes Giroux at centre with Briere on the wing. It doesn't matter where he was drafted, it appears this team wants him at centre. It's not such a bad idea the way he distributes the puck.

I think it's such BS that Jones is still on this roster when his money could have gone to Knuble. That way your first and third lines from last year are still together and the only need is filling Lupul's spot.

But seriously, it's time to get over this idea that we're going to cram the top 6 with our high priced players and have two lines of fairly crappy, physical players that can't score.

It's much more reasonable to split up our best six guys across three lines and put a plugger on the wing to do the dirty work and get to the net.
I'm not really a big fan of this philosophy tbh.

I mean, as of right now with that philosophy, we have...

Gagne-Richards-XXX
Hartnell-Carter-XXX
Lappy-Giroux-Briere
Carcillo-Powe-Asham

Now, I don't feel like giving Asham to Hartnell and Carter and having him play 18 minutes per night. Your best players should play the most minutes for you, that's just the way it should be. In essence right now, the Gagne-Richards line and the Hartnell-Carter line are hamstrung.

Gagne-Richards-Giroux
Hartnell-Carter-Briere
Lappy-Malhotra-Asham
Carcillo-Powe-XXX

I'm sorry, but I like that a lot, lot better. I feel like I can play Lappy and Malhotra against another team's top line if I need to for a while to get more favorable matchups for my top-6 guys. Furthermore, I think teams are going to have trouble stopping that top-6

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07-04-2009, 09:40 AM
  #116
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capgeek.com has JVR's cap hit at 1,654,166. Not too bad for 2nd overall pick.

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07-04-2009, 09:46 AM
  #117
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capgeek.com has JVR's cap hit at 1,654,166. Not too bad for 2nd overall pick.
His bonuses in year 2 are lower than in years 1 or 3. Odd.

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07-04-2009, 10:45 AM
  #118
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capgeek.com has JVR's cap hit at 1,654,166. Not too bad for 2nd overall pick.
Is that an accurate site? I've never used it before. I like the buy-out calculator...if it's accurate.

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07-04-2009, 12:09 PM
  #119
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Is that an accurate site? I've never used it before. I like the buy-out calculator...if it's accurate.
Irish Blues's site now links to it, so that's a pretty good endorsement.

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07-04-2009, 12:22 PM
  #120
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Irish Blues's site now links to it, so that's a pretty good endorsement.
Awesome. I really like the site.

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07-04-2009, 12:27 PM
  #121
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Awesome. I really like the site.
Yeah, it took me a second to figure out where everything is located, but there are some really nifty tools on there.

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07-04-2009, 12:37 PM
  #122
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I'm not really a big fan of this philosophy tbh.

I mean, as of right now with that philosophy, we have...

Gagne-Richards-XXX
Hartnell-Carter-XXX
Lappy-Giroux-Briere
Carcillo-Powe-Asham

Now, I don't feel like giving Asham to Hartnell and Carter and having him play 18 minutes per night. Your best players should play the most minutes for you, that's just the way it should be. In essence right now, the Gagne-Richards line and the Hartnell-Carter line are hamstrung.

Gagne-Richards-Giroux
Hartnell-Carter-Briere
Lappy-Malhotra-Asham
Carcillo-Powe-XXX

I'm sorry, but I like that a lot, lot better. I feel like I can play Lappy and Malhotra against another team's top line if I need to for a while to get more favorable matchups for my top-6 guys. Furthermore, I think teams are going to have trouble stopping that top-6
how about getting a cheap F/O specialist and PK like betts or gratton? both @ $1MM or less.

sign somenone like pyatt to a fedetenko type deal...send jones to phantoms and start out the season w/ someone like syvret...if he does well he stays up and if not then sign a cheap veteran for the bottom pair.

gagne - richards - giroux
hartnell - carter - briere
carcillo - lappy - pyatt
powe - gratton/betts - asham

*hopefully JVR develops for end of year call up*
gagne - richards - giroux
hartnell - carter - JVR
pyatt - briere - lappy
carcillo - gratton/betts - asham

coburn - kimo
pronger - carle
parent - syvret

*minor pickup at trade deadline for vet dman going into playoffs*

coburn-kimo
pronger -carle
parent - aucoin -type

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07-04-2009, 12:46 PM
  #123
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how about getting a cheap F/O specialist and PK like betts or gratton? both @ $1MM or less.

sign somenone like pyatt to a fedetenko type deal...send jones to phantoms and start out the season w/ someone like syvret...if he does well he stays up and if not then sign a cheap veteran for the bottom pair.

gagne - richards - giroux
hartnell - carter - briere
carcillo - lappy - pyatt
powe - gratton/betts - asham

*hopefully JVR develops for end of year call up*
gagne - richards - giroux
hartnell - carter - JVR
pyatt - briere - lappy
carcillo - gratton/betts - asham

coburn - kimo
pronger - carle
parent - syvret

*minor pickup at trade deadline for vet dman going into playoffs*

coburn-kimo
pronger -carle
parent - aucoin -type
I think most people who watch Laperriere (have we decided on Lappy or iLap yet?) have said that he really hasn't played C for a number of years, so I'd be hesitant about putting him in a 3rd line C role.

I'm pretty disappointed we haven't gone after a 3rd line C considering that Malhotra and Moore are still out there as well as guys like Lang, Marchant, Bonk, and etc.

As for D, I'd personally love a physical d-man for the 3rd pairing, it's a real shame that Zanon and Skrastins have signed at really affordable rates while we continue to employ Jones at 2.75 mill.

Again,

Gagne-Richards-Giroux
Hartnell-Carter-Briere
Laperriere-Malhotra-Asham
Carcillo-Powe-Kalinski (or whoever)

Kimmo-Coburn
Pronger-Parent
Carle-Skrastins

Emery
Boucher

Somebody tell me how that team isn't a leading Cup contender? The fact that the organization hasn't done it yet is really disappointing, but not too surprising considering their recent blunders.

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07-04-2009, 03:40 PM
  #124
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I think most people who watch Laperriere (have we decided on Lappy or iLap yet?) have said that he really hasn't played C for a number of years, so I'd be hesitant about putting him in a 3rd line C role.

I'm pretty disappointed we haven't gone after a 3rd line C considering that Malhotra and Moore are still out there as well as guys like Lang, Marchant, Bonk, and etc.

As for D, I'd personally love a physical d-man for the 3rd pairing, it's a real shame that Zanon and Skrastins have signed at really affordable rates while we continue to employ Jones at 2.75 mill.

Again,

Gagne-Richards-Giroux
Hartnell-Carter-Briere
Laperriere-Malhotra-Asham
Carcillo-Powe-Kalinski (or whoever)

Kimmo-Coburn
Pronger-Parent
Carle-Skrastins

Emery
Boucher

Somebody tell me how that team isn't a leading Cup contender? The fact that the organization hasn't done it yet is really disappointing, but not too surprising considering their recent blunders.
how about gauthier for a physical 3rd pairing dman? at a@$1-1.5MM?
i think he is better then guys like montador and walker who got more $$ for the same role.
i'd like to get manny or bonk, but not so much moore, however, i think they aill want more $$ and an opportunity to play increased minutes which when they look at the flyers (richards, cater, giroux, briere) probably doesn't look possible.

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07-06-2009, 11:54 AM
  #125
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how about gauthier for a physical 3rd pairing dman? at a@$1-1.5MM?
i think he is better then guys like montador and walker who got more $$ for the same role.
i'd like to get manny or bonk, but not so much moore, however, i think they aill want more $$ and an opportunity to play increased minutes which when they look at the flyers (richards, cater, giroux, briere) probably doesn't look possible.
We had to pay to get rid of Gauthier, i'd prefer he stays away.

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