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Scuderi to LA Kings, 3yr x 3.4M

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Old
07-02-2009, 06:54 PM
  #201
kingpest19
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Originally Posted by jose2hot View Post
I'm not trying to downplay the job he's done since becoming GM, but in the early-mid 90's he was playing the same sort of role that Yzerman is now, contributing but really just being groomed to become the GM. The winning truly started with Jimmy D, drafting by Neil Smith, and a focus on two-way play by Scotty Bowman (who really single-handedly turned over the roster in '97 when the won their first cup). Holland has done a spectacular job of not only maintaining, but growing the reputation of the organization, but it's mis-placed to say that he started it and they were bad before he took over. I think they only missed the playoffs once in the 10 or so years before Holland took over, won the division and the conference multiple times, and actually set the record for wins in a season in '96.
The point is, is that since hes been in charge fully its a team that guys want to play for and will take a little less money to play for. You have guys like dbh who whine and cry about guys signing with the Wings and not the Kings and dont realize how long it took for that team to get to that point and that they went through bad years just like the Kings did.

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Old
07-02-2009, 06:56 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by dbhinla View Post
Dump all your high salaried (but talented and marketable) players and become so bad you accumulate high draft picks. My Grandmother could have come up with that strategy.
Is your grandmother the GM for the Penguins?

2003 Entry 1 1 Marc-Andre Fleury
2004 Entry 2 1 Evgeni Malkin
2005 Entry 1 1 Sidney Crosby
2006 Entry 2 1 Jordan Staal

Seemed to work out ok for them.

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07-02-2009, 07:04 PM
  #203
JMFJ 3
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The Wings weren't always "The Wings"

1966-67 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1967-68 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1968-69 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1969-70 Detroit Lost in round 1
1970-71 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1971-72 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1972-73 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1973-74 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1974-75 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1975-76 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1976-77 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1977-78 Detroit Lost in round 2
1978-79 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1979-80 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1980-81 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1981-82 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1982-83 Detroit Missed Playoffs

That's a whole lot of suck. Kings' fans should really keep that in mind.
Holy crap, I never realized they went through 17 year period of futility.

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07-02-2009, 07:11 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by JMFJ 3 View Post
Holy crap, I never realized they went through 17 year period of futility.
Something else you may not know is that the Kings lead the all-time season series against the Wings due to that period of suckage (though I'm sure Detroit is closing in now).

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07-02-2009, 07:12 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by JMFJ 3 View Post
Holy crap, I never realized they went through 17 year period of futility.

You never heard of the "Dead Wings" era?

Ah...to be young again...

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Old
07-02-2009, 07:14 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
The point is, is that since hes been in charge fully its a team that guys want to play for and will take a little less money to play for. You have guys like dbh who whine and cry about guys signing with the Wings and not the Kings and dont realize how long it took for that team to get to that point and that they went through bad years just like the Kings did.
I know sorry I wasn't trying to argue your point that Holland has done a spectacular job, especially since the lock-out when everyone thought they would tank, I just hear way too many people say that he was the guy who turned Detroit around when that's not the case.

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07-02-2009, 07:20 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by JMFJ 3 View Post
Holy crap, I never realized they went through 17 year period of futility.
Had they not gone through that, they'd most likely be 2nd in all-time Cup wins, ahead of Toronto. But the 70's and 80's were most likely a very embarrassing era for Wings fans.

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07-02-2009, 07:35 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by JMFJ 3 View Post
Holy crap, I never realized they went through 17 year period of futility.
This is why Yzerman is the "savior" of the franchise. Look up the story with how they wanted Lafontaine, etc.

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07-02-2009, 07:39 PM
  #209
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Scuderi-Greene = a tandem you are not gonna be able to get a good forecheck against.

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07-02-2009, 07:46 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by 10 ft. pole View Post
Scuderi-Greene = a tandem you are not gonna be able to get a good forecheck against.
I don't know about Greene, but the forecheck is probably where Scuderi is weakest. His skill is breaking up plays. His weakness is playing the puck in his own zone. A forecheck forces Scuderi to move it, and forced plays lead to turnovers.

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Old
07-02-2009, 08:07 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by shaner89 View Post
Simialar to the Jeff Finger contract. Good defensive dman have a certain price.

This is no different. Yes this is a durastic overpayment but LA wanted him and they payed for it,.
Looks like you skipped out on English class and have "payed" for it.

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07-02-2009, 08:42 PM
  #212
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Looks like you skipped out on English class and have "payed" for it.
It's not that "durastic" of an error.

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07-02-2009, 09:44 PM
  #213
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Weren't Pens fans desperate to get rid of this guy a few years ago when he was paired with Joe Melichar?

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Old
07-02-2009, 09:45 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by JMFJ 3 View Post
Holy crap, I never realized they went through 17 year period of futility.
And the Kings will be right there when they find a communist, talent-rich hockey country and nab some if its best players when they defect

Holland does get too much credit because the foundation was in place when he got there. Great job of maintaining the winning but I'm sick of seeing Kings fans point to Detroit to somehow prove that every move Lombardi makes is correct.

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07-02-2009, 09:54 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by PromNite View Post
Weren't Pens fans desperate to get rid of this guy a few years ago when he was paired with Joe Melichar?
Ah, the dreaded Scudichar pairing. It's amazing how far he's come.

Sick avatar, btw. Great game.

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07-02-2009, 09:57 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Modo View Post
Had they not gone through that, they'd most likely be 2nd in all-time Cup wins, ahead of Toronto. But the 70's and 80's were most likely a very embarrassing era for Wings fans.
...and had the Leafs won more Cups in the last 40 years...they'd have more cups too...?

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07-02-2009, 10:00 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by PromNite View Post
Weren't Pens fans desperate to get rid of this guy a few years ago when he was paired with Joe Melichar?
Yep. The dreaded Scudichar pairing...the height of awfulness in the Penguins dark age...it truly is amazing at how much improvement he's made since those days.

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Old
07-02-2009, 10:04 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
Is your grandmother the GM for the Penguins?

2003 Entry 1 1 Marc-Andre Fleury
2004 Entry 2 1 Evgeni Malkin
2005 Entry 1 1 Sidney Crosby
2006 Entry 2 1 Jordan Staal

Seemed to work out ok for them.
No. She got drunk and tried to sleep with him once but things turned ugly.

But if we're on the same path (and I hope we are) shouldn't Hickey being playing this season? By my count:

STK went straight to the big club
Malkin spent one year in Russia then up to the Pens
Fluery one year in minors
Stall straight to the majors

It's been argued by some in this thread that Scuderi is a good pickup because Hickey the 4th overall pick in the draft needs a 3rd full year in the minors. If that's what's best for Hickey, cool, but DL's got some people thinking he's a genius. That no matter what happens, who we trade, what FA busts we endure, it's all part of the master plan. I'm not so sure.

For sure he's no idiot but at some point he needs to be accountable for the picks he has made being more productive then players he let go, and ultimately W-L's. Like I said if the team starts turning things around I will be happy to be wrong.

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07-02-2009, 10:14 PM
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
Yep. The dreaded Scudichar pairing...the height of awfulness in the Penguins dark age...it truly is amazing at how much improvement he's made since those days.
I was right!?

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Originally Posted by SCUDeriMISSILE View Post
Ah, the dreaded Scudichar pairing. It's amazing how far he's come.
The dreaded pair even had a nickname... it gives me hope for Redden. He and Rozsy were our most reliable pair in the playoffs... people forget that when they see Redden's paycheck, though.

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Sick avatar, btw. Great game.
LOVE the game, one of my faves. Almost impossible to beat, though.

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07-02-2009, 10:20 PM
  #220
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either that or they opt to re-sign Johnson and move Quincey.
would they consider moving quincey? if so, what would they expect back?

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07-02-2009, 10:44 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by dbhinla View Post
By my count:

STK went straight to the big club
Malkin spent one year in Russia then up to the Pens
Fluery one year in minors
Stall straight to the majors
Those were 2 first overalls and 2 second overalls that netted the Pens 2 of the 3 best players in the game today. The Kings have only had one pick that high, and guess what? He went straight to the show. There are only three guys picked after Hickey from the 2007 draft who have played close to a full season of games in their careers to this point: Gagner, Voracek and Perron. Do the 22 GMs of those other teams not know what their doing too?

Hell, Philly picked 2nd overall and Van Riemsdyk hasn't played a game yet for the Flyers. Does that make him a bust?

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07-02-2009, 11:18 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by dbhinla View Post
For sure he's no idiot but at some point he needs to be accountable for the picks he has made being more productive then players he let go, and ultimately W-L's. Like I said if the team starts turning things around I will be happy to be wrong.
Would you like to compare DL's Kings drafting record with Dave Taylor's? I would...

In 3 drafts with the Kings (not including the last draft out of fairness), of which he really only had his own scouts in place for 2 of them he's drafted the following guys who have made it to the NHL level or are at Manchester and are moving up. I'll leave off Hickey Canada's Junior Team captain at the last WC's because you don't seem to be sold on him and I'm not including the most recent draft with Brayden Schenn who most people around here will say is a can't miss prospect.


Jonathan Bernier
Trevor Lewis
Oscar Moller
Wayne Simmonds
Drew Doughty
Vyacheslav Voynov (took GUTS to draft him)
Andrei Loktionov (see Voynov, and he will be in the "A" this year after being huge in the Mem Cup this year.)

That's 7 guys in 28 picks (not including some other young players who were drafted then and are likely to play at Manchester as well and maybe called up at some point for a look)

Dave Taylor's last three drafts...
Anze Kopitar
Jonathan Quick
Dustin Brown

That's it... 3 guys out of 27 picks...

I think if you look at the previous GMs record and compare it to the current one anyone would think you're being a little hard on Lombardi and more than a little bit impatient.

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07-02-2009, 11:28 PM
  #223
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Those were 2 first overalls and 2 second overalls that netted the Pens 2 of the 3 best players in the game today. The Kings have only had one pick that high, and guess what? He went straight to the show. There are only three guys picked after Hickey from the 2007 draft who have played close to a full season of games in their careers to this point: Gagner, Voracek and Perron. Do the 22 GMs of those other teams not know what their doing too?

Hell, Philly picked 2nd overall and Van Riemsdyk hasn't played a game yet for the Flyers. Does that make him a bust?
Oh, all true. And I am trying hard not to put myself in a position to knock our players. Give the kid whatever time he needs.

My point though is that no matter what happens some people defend EVERY choice DL makes. Doughty and JJ are two players to build the future around. Greene was traded for Lubo, a popular and productive player. If Scuderi was brought here to play out his contract. Where do Hickey and Teubert fit in? Shouldn't Hickey be a TOP 4 guy once he does get here?

So then what did we get for Lubo, a #5 defenseman? And why can't O'Donald play several more years. Look at the Detroit squad everyone is modeling after, a few productive 40 something defensemen there?

DL signs a second tier player (ON DEFENSE!!!) and we all shuffle the deck chairs just to make sure he keeps his "God of Hockey" status intact.

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Old
07-02-2009, 11:34 PM
  #224
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Scuderi automatically enters the Kings top 4. Good signing.

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Old
07-02-2009, 11:38 PM
  #225
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Scuderi automatically enters the Kings top 4. Good signing.
That's typically what you'd hope for when you spend 3.4 million on a defenseman in the prime of his career, yes.

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