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Allen Walsh embattles Blackhawks over RFA statuses (NHLPA files grievance)

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Old
07-03-2009, 07:38 PM
  #76
mcphllp
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wow i was thinking that this would be a non-story, but after that quote from SI, who knows. I guess its a good way to solve their cap space?

Barker + Leafs=Awesome

I hope it turns out that it works out for the hawks though. This type of trivial mess up shouldnt result in such a horrendous result. Fine the team, but dont take their players away.

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Old
07-03-2009, 07:38 PM
  #77
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Could have serious repercussions league wide.

Chicago:

No way, after all their FA craziness, could they tender these guys serious UFA offers and retain them all. With that number of RFA's, they would be looking at filling their roster with either seriously less skilled players and/or prospects before they are ready. They could also end up having to overpay Versteeg and Barker seriously and make a trade they were not planning on just to get back under the cap.

League:

A brand new couple UFA's become available after a large chunk of teams blew their cash on the 1st. Some teams who held fast and have cap space now may get some very impressive players for a good bargain. A team like LA grabbing Versteeg at this point would be quite the coupe for them.

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Old
07-03-2009, 07:43 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
An argument from the NHLPA could mean this has some legs.

Article 10.2(a)ii states:



An argument could be made that, based on the wording, the PLAYER was not tendered the offer. While the NHL was notified of the qualifying offers, the Player was not notified until after the deadline.

In the end they will likely remain RFA's, but it isn't as cut and dry as some people are claiming it is.
It's a matter of how strict the arbitrator will interpret the wording. That NJD decision cited earlier could be an important precedent.

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Old
07-03-2009, 07:44 PM
  #79
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If i remember right, this is almost exactly what happen to New Jersey with Madden and Rafalski. Crazy.

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Old
07-03-2009, 07:47 PM
  #80
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I'm sure Gary will thoroughly review this situation for 5 or 10 minutes before applying the Malkin Rule. I'm equally as sure that as the NHL's partner, the NHLPA's input will be carefully considered.

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Old
07-03-2009, 07:50 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blatherblah View Post
It's a matter of how strict the arbitrator will interpret the wording. That NJD decision cited earlier could be an important precedent.
Exactly.

On top of it there are questions as to whether or not Chicago followed the rules with respect to deliverance.

Exhibit 3 of the CBA states this:

Quote:
During the Playing Season, a Player shall receive notice(s) from his Club via hand delivery. From the day after the conclusion of a Player's Playing Season until the commencement of the Player's subsequent Playing Season, notice(s) shall be sent via overnight delivery to the Player's off-season address which the Player provides to the Club, and if no such address is provided by the Player, the notice(s) shall be sent via overnight delivery to the Player's last known address.
...
If no method of service is specified in this Agreement, service of the required notice shall be effectuated by either facsimile transmission or overnight mail delivery by an established nation-wide delivery service (e.g., FedEx, Overnite, Airborne, etc.). In the event the method of service specified is e-mail, but no e-mail address has been provided, that requirement will be deemed to be waived. In the event the method of service specified is not available (e.g., overnight delivery to a specified address), the next most reasonable and efficient service available shall be utilized, provided such service provides a written verification or other record of delivery (e.g., certified or registered mail or delivery overnight).

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Old
07-03-2009, 07:52 PM
  #82
kdb209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
An argument from the NHLPA could mean this has some legs.

Article 10.2(a)ii states:



An argument could be made that, based on the wording, the PLAYER was not tendered the offer. While the NHL was notified of the qualifying offers, the Player was not notified until after the deadline.

In the end they will likely remain RFA's, but it isn't as cut and dry as some people are claiming it is.
And the CBA is quite clear on the process:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA Article 10.2(a)
A Qualifying Offer shall not be open for acceptance prior to July 1. If a
Qualifying Offer meeting the above requirements is timely made, the Prior Club shall
have a Right of First Refusal, exercisable in accordance with Section 10.3 below, or Draft
Choice Compensation, exercisable in accordance with Section 10.4 below. A Qualifying
Offer will be deemed to have met the above requirements if the Prior Club timely
provides the Player a completed copy of the notice attached as Exhibit 19 hereto, in
accordance with Exhibit 3 hereto.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA Exhibit 19
EXHIBIT 19
FORM OF QUALIFYING OFFER SHEET
QUALIFYING OFFER SHEET
Name and Address of Player:
Name and Address of Player's Authorized Representative:
Club:
Pursuant to Section 10.2 of the Collective Bargaining Agreement (the "CBA"), [Club]
hereby makes [Player] a Qualifying Offer of $__ in the NHL and $___ in the AHL (if
applicable), or whatever other minimum amounts are necessary to preserve the Club
rights contemplated in Section 10.2(a)(ii) of the CBA. This Qualifying Offer is not open
for acceptance until July 1, 20__.
If you are eligible for salary arbitration, this Qualifying Offer is subject to that right.
Date:__________________
____________________________
Club
By:
Title:
Agreed To and Accepted By:
____________________________ ______________
[Player Name] [Date]
cc: NHL Players' Association
NHL Central Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA Exhibit 3
EXHIBIT 3
CBA NOTICES
To the extent that any provision of this Agreement requires the delivery of a
notice to any of the following individuals or entities, such notice shall be delivered to such
individuals or entities as follows:
To the NHL National Hockey League

1251 Avenue of the Americas
47th Floor
New York, NY 10020
Primary Fax: (212) 789-2050
Secondary Fax: (212) 789-2030
Attn: David Zimmerman, Esq.
e-mail: dzimmerman@nhl.com

To NHL Central Registry National Hockey League
Central Registry
1800 McGill College Avenue
Suite 2600
Montreal, Quebec H3A 3J6
Canada
Primary Fax: (514) 841-1060
Secondary Fax: (514) 841-1050
Attn: Stephen Pellegrini
e-mail: spellegrini@nhl.com

To any NHL Club To the Club address set forth in Exhibit 29.

To the NHLPA National Hockey League Players' Association
777 Bay Street
Suite 2400, Box 121
Toronto, Ontario M5G 2C8
Canada
Primary Fax: (416) 260-0634
Secondary Fax: (416) 313-2403
Attn: Ian M. Penny
e-mail: ipenny@nhlpa.com

To a Player During the Playing Season, a Player shall receive
notice(s) from his Club via hand delivery. From the
day after the conclusion of a Player's Playing Season
until the commencement of the Player's subsequent
Playing Season, notice(s) shall be sent via overnight
delivery to the Player's off-season address which the
Player provides to the Club, and if no such address is
provided by the Player, the notice(s) shall be sent via
overnight delivery to the Player's last known address.


To a Certified Agent

To the address set forth in the list provided by the
NHLPA pursuant to Section 6.1.
If no method of service is specified in this Agreement, service of the required
notice shall be effectuated by either facsimile transmission or overnight mail delivery by an
established nation-wide delivery service (e.g., FedEx, Overnite, Airborne, etc.). In the event the
method of service specified is e-mail, but no e-mail address has been provided, that requirement
will be deemed to be waived. In the event the method of service specified is not available (e.g.,
overnight delivery to a specified address), the next most reasonable and efficient service
available shall be utilized, provided such service provides a written verification or other record
of delivery (e.g., certified or registered mail or delivery overnight).

In the event the contact information changes for any of the aforementioned parties,
notice of such changes shall immediately be provided to all listed parties.

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Old
07-03-2009, 07:58 PM
  #83
Retail1LO
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I sent an email to all three of those characters telling them there will be hell to pay if they make all of 'em UFA.

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Old
07-03-2009, 07:59 PM
  #84
WalterSobchak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphllp View Post
wow i was thinking that this would be a non-story, but after that quote from SI, who knows. I guess its a good way to solve their cap space?

Barker + Leafs=Awesome

I hope it turns out that it works out for the hawks though. This type of trivial mess up shouldnt result in such a horrendous result. Fine the team, but dont take their players away.
This isn't a trivial mess up. This is big business. If your boss was obligated to give you paperwork for your raise and messed it up and instead of getting a 10% raise you now became entitled to a 100% raise. What would you do?

There is no room for fines here, its pretty cut and dried. It was filed properly, or it wasn't.

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Old
07-03-2009, 08:00 PM
  #85
bullocks
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god i hope this is true.

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Old
07-03-2009, 08:00 PM
  #86
y2kcanucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
And the CBA is quite clear on the process:
Yes, and were those requirements satisfied? I'm not so sure. Even if it was mailed, was it received prior to the deadline? The report states no.

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Old
07-03-2009, 08:01 PM
  #87
mrzeigler
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****ing clerics ruin everything.

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Old
07-03-2009, 08:02 PM
  #88
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I'm recalling some crap from my first year law class about the mailbox rule or whatever.

I was taking a lot of gravel at that time in my life so I could be mistaken.

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Old
07-03-2009, 08:03 PM
  #89
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That Exhibit 3 wording doesn't sound good for the Hawks at all. They were obliged to send the contracts overnight via Fedex or a similar courier, alternative methods being acceptable only if such service isn't available to the player's address of record. But unless the players have an address somewhere way the hell out in the wilderness, I can't see that applying.

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Old
07-03-2009, 08:05 PM
  #90
Jill Sandwich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzeigler View Post
****ing clerics ruin everything.
Way to go Chicago clerics, for collectively bungling your Turn Undead and blowing Cure Light Wounds earlier in the dungeon, I mean, negotiation.

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Old
07-03-2009, 08:06 PM
  #91
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any word on how long until we can expect a decision?

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Old
07-03-2009, 08:09 PM
  #92
mrzeigler
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What's especially funny about this scenario is that some teams that handed out big contracts on July 1 might not be able to ink CHI RFA-turned-UFAs because of cap space, so its could be the patient GMs who end up with these guys.

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Old
07-03-2009, 08:11 PM
  #93
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You know...I'm a fan of the Blackhawks...but I hate no other team...not even the Red Wings. I've never in my LIFE wished ill will or heart ache upon another franchises fan base. Not EVER. It's really embarassing that the top like...5 threads in this forum all involve either someone trying to fleece our depth chart, or wishing that this latest news comes to fruition. There's absolutely nothing I can do about this...and what happens...happens. But think for a minute if it was YOUR team under the gun...with a handful of your top players. Imagine the feeling you'd have in your stomach. I seriously thought there was a little more class in this joint.

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07-03-2009, 08:11 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzeigler View Post
****ing clerics ruin everything.
Hahah this gave me a good laugh...

Wiki
Quote:
A cleric (Ancient Greek κληρικός - klērikos), clergyman (pl. clergymen), or churchman (pl. churchmen) is a member of the clergy of a religion, especially one who is a priest, preacher, or other religious professional.
Quote:
The Cleric, Priest, or Bishop is a character class in Dungeons & Dragons and other fantasy role-playing games. The cleric is a healer, usually a priest and a holy warrior, originally modeled on or inspired by the Military Orders. Clerics are usually members of religious orders, with the original intent being to portray soldiers of sacred orders who have magical abilities granted by the gods, although this role was later taken more clearly by the paladin.
Perhaps you are searching for clerk...

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07-03-2009, 08:13 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retail1LO View Post
You know...I'm a fan of the Blackhawks...but I hate no other team...not even the Red Wings. I've never in my LIFE wished ill will or heart ache upon another franchises fan base. Not EVER. It's really embarassing that the top like...5 threads in this forum all involve either someone trying to fleece our depth chart, or wishing that this latest news comes to fruition. There's absolutely nothing I can do about this...and what happens...happens. But think for a minute if it was YOUR team under the gun...with a handful of your top players. Imagine the feeling you'd have in your stomach. I seriously thought there was a little more class in this joint.

Brother, life isnt' fair. Make sure your GM who is making the big splash is as astute as you claim his signings are. His past history has shown a plethora of overpayment, and finally the piper must be paid.


Paying the Piper sucks, but this one was coming from a looong time ago.

Started with Havlat, ends with Hossa, and now you guys will (I hope not, since I like Chicago's core and I really like their team!) lose your premier guys..

Sorry man, but the GM totallly ****ED up on this.

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Old
07-03-2009, 08:14 PM
  #96
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Mailbox rule is for common law contract disputes. The criteria for mailing (acceptance) is pretty clear in the CBA.

EDIT: As in, it pretty clearly says use Fedex or another overnight service, not the freaking post office.

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Old
07-03-2009, 08:16 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retail1LO View Post
You know...I'm a fan of the Blackhawks...but I hate no other team...not even the Red Wings. I've never in my LIFE wished ill will or heart ache upon another franchises fan base. Not EVER. It's really embarassing that the top like...5 threads in this forum all involve either someone trying to fleece our depth chart, or wishing that this latest news comes to fruition. There's absolutely nothing I can do about this...and what happens...happens. But think for a minute if it was YOUR team under the gun...with a handful of your top players. Imagine the feeling you'd have in your stomach. I seriously thought there was a little more class in this joint.
I've never been privvy to this 'class' you speak of that supposedly exists in HFboards. Particularly the trade rumors board.

Its sports. Its competative. Its about advantage.

If saying "sorry that sux" makes you feel better, then "Sorry dude, that sucks for Hawks fans."

As for the rest of the league its funny and potential awesome if other teams can snag your young talent because someone at the Hawks screwed up a process that every team goes through every year.

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Old
07-03-2009, 08:17 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DregerFan View Post
Brother, life isnt' fair. Make sure your GM who is making the big splash is as astute as you claim his signings are. His past history has shown a plethora of overpayment, and finally the piper must be paid.


Paying the Piper sucks, but this one was coming from a looong time ago.

Started with Havlat, ends with Hossa, and now you guys will (I hope not, since I like Chicago's core and I really like their team!) lose your premier guys..

Sorry man, but the GM totallly ****ED up on this.
*laughing* I have a friend here as I surf the boards...and I bet him $10 that you'd quote my post inside of 10 minutes. You were the last person I expected to be even remotely sympathetic. Thanks for not disappointing. While the return not be great...I must say...we've just cleared up some good cap space! Maybe we can go after Heatley now. LOL

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Old
07-03-2009, 08:18 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retail1LO View Post
You know...I'm a fan of the Blackhawks...but I hate no other team...not even the Red Wings. I've never in my LIFE wished ill will or heart ache upon another franchises fan base. Not EVER. It's really embarassing that the top like...5 threads in this forum all involve either someone trying to fleece our depth chart, or wishing that this latest news comes to fruition. There's absolutely nothing I can do about this...and what happens...happens. But think for a minute if it was YOUR team under the gun...with a handful of your top players. Imagine the feeling you'd have in your stomach. I seriously thought there was a little more class in this joint.
I definitely see some Detroit fans are extremley worried about the hawks.

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Old
07-03-2009, 08:19 PM
  #100
Retail1LO
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Would be funny if this was done intentionally (I know...not possible)...and he went after a couple more free agents. Would still rather have the players and/or their return but...

Enjoy the thread gentlemen.

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