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Old
07-03-2009, 02:46 PM
  #326
Captain Ron
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Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
The biggest thing I got from the article was Gann calling out DLs lie about not spending money due to the cap. Seems like we can add a player and still keep our best propects after all.

I have long tried to rationalize Lombardi's moves and I still can for most of them but my belief in him took a serious blow with Gaborik, risk and all.
I have been talking about this for a while. I know the CBA better than most hockey fans or even some "hockey people" and I knew that what Dean was saying was nothing more than BS.

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07-03-2009, 02:53 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
I have been talking about this for a while. I know the CBA better than most hockey fans or even some "hockey people" and I knew that what Dean was saying was nothing more than BS.
It's almost as though DL thinks that unused cap space rolls over to the next season.

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07-03-2009, 02:53 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
The biggest thing I got from the article was Gann calling out DLs lie about not spending money due to the cap. Seems like we can add a player and still keep our best propects after all.

I have long tried to rationalize Lombardi's moves and I still can for most of them but my belief in him took a serious blow with Gaborik, risk and all.
We don't know how much he offered long term but we expect it was alot. So yeah all this we need to conserve cap space BS we have been hearing about for the past year is obviously just a smoke screen for something else.

As much of a hardass about DL as I am at times, it has more to do with what he says than what he does, although him not doing things gets to me as well. I am paid to listen to what people say and see the holes in their statements. After hearing DL's comments of the past few days, its kind of obvious that alot of what he says doesn't necessarily apply allthe time. Long term deals are stupid, but they would have gone long term with Hossa. Can't spend the money: Hossa and Gaborik negotiations/offers.

It just re-affirms my feeling that DL, as an attorney, says what he wants you to hear and always, ALWAYS, represents his client's interests first and foremost. When one puts themself out in public and makes statements designed for general consumption, statements that while superficially correct, don't hold up to close scrutiny, while hiding the real intent, and doing so in the interests of their client, call it what you will, but to me, and I get it all the time as well, that is being a mouthpiece also known as a . . . (do I need to say it?)

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07-03-2009, 03:20 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Muzzfan View Post
I found this commentary on Frozen Royalty.

http://frozenroyalty.net/2009/07/03/...rdi-to-gamble/

I think it's a fair summary of the issues that have been raised over the last three days. I am hoping that DL can still swing that trade for the LW. We've got the rest of the summer to work on it!
Ok, I finally got around to reading it.

I think Gann misrepresents Lombardi's position in several places in the article.

It boils down to getting the right player to fill a hole long term vs filling the hole long term with a player that is very good, but may or may not work out.

Hossa is a guy that Lombardi obviously felt would fill a left hand shot hole on the wing for a very long time. In Hossa's case he was obviously willing to risk losing one or two of the kids down the road, and in the case of Gaborik and Havlat he wasn't willing to take that risk.

It wasn't a matter of lying. It was a matter of the value he assigned to each of those three players. Money wasn't an issue with Gaborik as much as the term. If he brings him in for 2 or 3 years and he gets hurt, he sets the rebuild back, but not beyond repair. Five years would be a lot tougher to recover from. When you consider how he probably had them ranked:

1) Hossa - willing to give big money, long term contract
2) Gaborik - willing to give big money, short term contract
3) Havlat

If he wasn't going to give Gaborik 5 years, he sure as hell wouldn't be willing to give Havlat 6 years.

We've been over it 1000 times, or more. The critics are going to call him a liar and reign down the insults on him. The supporters see the reasons why things are done, or not done.

As I have said recently, the only bone I have to pick at this time with Dean is his unwillingness to use offer sheets. There is a reason offer sheets were included in the CBA. It was to make the RFAs of teams that take risks on big money UFAs vulnerable to losing their best young players.

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07-03-2009, 03:30 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post

As I have said recently, the only bone I have to pick at this time with Dean is his unwillingness to use offer sheets. There is a reason offer sheets were included in the CBA. It was to make the RFAs of teams that take risks on big money UFAs vulnerable to losing their best young players.
Hey....I have no problem with Dean using offer sheets....Just remember there are consequences to using them. Are you going to be OK with it when a team offers Doughty a $7 million offer sheet in 2 years???

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07-03-2009, 03:35 PM
  #331
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Hey....I have no problem with Dean using offer sheets....Just remember there are consequences to using them. Are you going to be OK with it when a team offers Doughty a $7 million offer sheet in 2 years???
I'll thank them for doing our negotiating for us. Based on what we know so far about Doughty and what Lombardi thinks of him, I doubt that Drew ever sees RFA status.

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07-03-2009, 03:48 PM
  #332
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I'll thank them for doing our negotiating for us. Based on what we know so far about Doughty and what Lombardi thinks of him, I doubt that Drew ever sees RFA status.
That may very well be the case. But Dean will not sign all of the Kings potential RFA's before their contracts expire....and offer sheets often bring bad feelings from other GM's.

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07-03-2009, 04:05 PM
  #333
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Gann's article is kind of all over the place.

The part that stuck out to me was when he says that Gaborik was a fit, and Havlat was a lesser fit. He also however acknowledges that money should only be spent on the right fit. If Havlat is a LESSER fit, then why should he be pursued AS MUCH as someone who is a better fit? Obviously nothing is perfect, but you can't agree with the premise that a player has to be the right fit, then admit that a player is a lesser fit, meaning not really a fit, and then advocate throwing the farm at that lesser fit player. That is exactly the definition of ridiculous FA overspending. You are smart when you overspend for THE right player, but when a guy isn't THE right player, and you still overspend, your name is Bob Gainey and you're team is about to suck with mercenary talent. If the mandate is "just get whoever the hell is out there" then you don't really have a plan.

Now where I do agree with Gann is that Gaborik was THE right player. Havlat, however, was not, and missing out on Gaborik should not mean that we immediately lock ourselves into 6 years of a lesser player and lesser fit in Havlat.


Last edited by JDM: 07-03-2009 at 05:31 PM.
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07-03-2009, 05:24 PM
  #334
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Gann's article is kind of all over the place.

The part that stuck out to me was when he says that Gaborik was a fit, and Havlat was a lesser fit. He alo however acknowledges that money should only be spend on the right fit. If Havlat is a LESSER fit, then why should he be pursued AS MUCH as someone who is a better fit? Obviously nothing is perfect, but you can't agree with the premise that a player has to be the right fit, then admit that a player is a lesser fit, meaning not really a fit, and then advocate throwing the farm at that lesser fit player. That is exactly the definition of ridiculous FA overspending. You are smart when you overspend for THE right player, but when a guy isn't THE right player, and you still overspend, your name is Bob Gainey and you're team is about to suck with mercenary talent. If the mandate is "just get whoever the hell is out there" then you don't really have a plan.

Now where I do agree with Gann is that Gaborik was THE right player. Havlat, however, was not, and missing out on Gaborik should not mean that we immediately lock ourselves into 6 years of a lesser player and lesser fit in Havlat.

Concur. I think we missed the boat om Gaborik. Havlat was not the answer. Only Time will tell.

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07-03-2009, 07:21 PM
  #335
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My problem is who is the right fit? IF it's Nash and Kovalchuk and we saved our money for those pipedreams when Gaborik was within our grasp-my sneaking suspicion-then I think Lombardi truly failed. If he can come away with a different gamebreaker somehow then I'll eat my words. My guess is we will go after a guy like R.Smyth and hope that he will teach our young guys how to be consummate pros while he chips in 25 goals.

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07-03-2009, 07:26 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
My problem is who is the right fit? IF it's Nash and Kovalchuk and we saved our money for those pipedreams when Gaborik was within our grasp-my sneaking suspicion-then I think Lombardi truly failed. If he can come away with a different gamebreaker somehow then I'll eat my words. My guess is we will go after a guy like R.Smyth and hope that he will teach our young guys how to be consummate pros while he chips in 25 goals.
No longer an option. http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2009/07/03/jackets_nash/

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07-03-2009, 07:55 PM
  #337
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Scratch one more superstar off the list of pipedreams you've been nurturing.

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07-03-2009, 07:58 PM
  #338
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Scratch one more superstar off the list of pipedreams you've been nurturing.
Can I still hope for world peace?

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07-03-2009, 08:04 PM
  #339
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Gaborik was the player that the Kings needed and Dean failed. It will probably cost him his job when the Kings miss the playoffs again.

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07-03-2009, 08:11 PM
  #340
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Can I still hope for world peace?
I think that and kovalchuk are about as likely!

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07-03-2009, 08:20 PM
  #341
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I think that and kovalchuk are about as likely!
... I know

I still hold out hope that Frolov signs a lifetime contract then talks up how great the Kings are to Kovie at the Olympics. Maybe they win together and Fro says "Hey, lets do this in L.A.!"

I do think there is a fair chance Kovie gets to UFA, or at the least is traded before the deadline. I don't think Atlanta will be very good and they must show marked improvement for Kovie to consider signing a new contract. If he does hit UFA, the bidding war will set new precedents.

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07-03-2009, 08:24 PM
  #342
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The only thing that may save Lombardi in my view is if Gaborik succombs to his injurys which I would hate to see happen to the guy. It's still a very bitter pill to swallow at the moment and it probably wont be any better when he scores four goals against the Kings the next time we play the Rangers.

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07-03-2009, 08:35 PM
  #343
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Gaborik has a lot of talent, but what did he ever win in Minnesota?

He comes with a huge risk, and 5 years is a long time if the guy doesn't play enough games to justify the money.

The Rangers aren't going to be able to surround him with much talent to help.

Bottom line is the kids are going to have to get better just like Lombardi said. The Kings still have money to add some good players via UFA or trade before the season starts.

Remember, most of the time the team that wins big on July 1 ends up losing within a couple of years of the signing.

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07-03-2009, 08:49 PM
  #344
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Yes Lombardi can fill the holes with guys like Sturm and be competitve. Gaborik is a top ten player. Going rate for game breakers seems to be around 7 or 8 years. 5 would have been a discount. I understand not wanting the risk and what's done is done so I'm not going to whine about it any more.

The Kings are a very good young team with the possibility to get even better next year depending on how long it takes Loktionov, Schenn, Hickey, and Voinov to break in. Everything is going to really have to click on offense this year. Williams needs to find his scoring touch. We may be able to win those 2-1 games all year long and sneak into the playoffs. Kopitar will have to take the league by storm every night, he will have to be our Gaborik if DL can't add that last piece.

Alot can happen next year and I don't think Gabby was the end all be all. I just think adding that kind of presence into the line up would have been a huge addition. I know Lombardi tried to his limit and is sticking to his guns no matter what. I have not turned my back on LA but I'm a little pissed at DL right now. Maybe it will pass in time. He played it safe and that's the way it is. He's sticking to his plan.

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07-04-2009, 07:13 AM
  #345
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My guess is we will go after a guy like R.Smyth and hope that he will teach our young guys how to be consummate pros while he chips in 25 goals.
Nice call there. Got this weeks lottery numbers aswell?

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