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Hurricanes sign Erik Cole, 2yrs $2.8M, $3.0M ($2.9M cap hit)

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Old
07-02-2009, 12:47 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
I am betting there was NO market for Cole... Why else did he wait til July 1, then sign here... Think about... I am thinking his phone was very quiet...
He said his agent fielded calls from at least a couple of teams, which seems reasonable. Not only is the free agent season tougher to predict than almost any in recent memory with the dual dynamics of a global recession and a likely shrinking cap, but Cole has never been a UFA before.

I see no reason to doubt what he said about exploring the market to ensure he was getting a fair deal. Previously, the Canes played hardball with him and he kept signing one-year deals as an RFA. He was making only around $1 M/year before he signed that 3-year after the Cup season. Once it was established that he was getting comparable numbers from the Canes, he re-signed. Obviously there wasn't a market a $4 M/yr but his camp knew that going.

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Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
Yeah... he had tons of calls... That's why he signed with us on July 1... I have PLENTY to stand on with my argument... Try using common sense analyze what happened... Of course he got a call, but I will almost guarantee we put the most money on the table and maybe by quite a bit...
No, you don't have facts to stand on. You decided first that Cole is declining and overpaid and then colored your version of events yesterday accordingly.

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07-02-2009, 12:47 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
Never said it was... In fact it was my point that it wasn't long term... So age is not a factor in either contract
How is age not a factor with Knuble's contract? He's 37 tomorrow and is signed for two years.

Do you think Ray Whitney (virtualy the same age) is going to decline this coming season? How about the season after that?

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07-02-2009, 12:52 PM
  #78
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ooooooooohh. im sheep? why? because i asked you to back up an argument?

i make the ugly argument on here all the time. often the unpopular, but at least i try to back up my argument. all youve got is "i bet", what do you have to stand on? you dont know and never will know what cole was offered around the league, and neither will i, all i have on my side is 15 years of ufa history you wont even bother to argue with.

have your opinion, im allowed to question it all i want, people question mine all the time. all i asked for is one comparable that showed cole is overpaid.

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07-02-2009, 01:17 PM
  #79
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2 goals in nearly 40 games for $3 mil equals overpaid to me

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07-02-2009, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
He said his agent fielded calls from at least a couple of teams, which seems reasonable. Not only is the free agent season tougher to predict than almost any in recent memory with the dual dynamics of a global recession and a likely shrinking cap, but Cole has never been a UFA before.

I see no reason to doubt what he said about exploring the market to ensure he was getting a fair deal. Previously, the Canes played hardball with him and he kept signing one-year deals as an RFA. He was making only around $1 M/year before he signed that 3-year after the Cup season. Once it was established that he was getting comparable numbers from the Canes, he re-signed. Obviously there wasn't a market a $4 M/yr but his camp knew that going.


No, you don't have facts to stand on. You decided first that Cole is declining and overpaid and then colored your version of events yesterday accordingly.
please provide me with any facts yourself. Every single post about all these signings are opinion. But when you don't agree you make the dumb post of 'provide facts'. Well why don't you provide facts to discount me! Easy answer. We are all speculating.

I also don't believe age is a factor on Knuble on a two year deal, I guess I need to find some facts for that opinion too!

Whitney is an interesting case. He shows me little sign of dramatically slowing down. Neither does Knuble either.

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07-02-2009, 01:33 PM
  #81
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Neither did Brind'amour, till he wrecked his knee.

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07-02-2009, 01:36 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
2 goals in nearly 40 games for $3 mil equals overpaid to me
Didn't Staal have like 12 goals in 40 games before he went on a tear at the end of the year? Getting paid what he is seems like he's being overpaid as well. Good thing teams don't just look at the worst stretches of a players career.

Quote:
please provide me with any facts yourself. Every single post about all these signings are opinion. But when you don't agree you make the dumb post of 'provide facts'. Well why don't you provide facts to discount me! Easy answer. We are all speculating.

I also don't believe age is a factor on Knuble on a two year deal, I guess I need to find some facts for that opinion too!

Whitney is an interesting case. He shows me little sign of dramatically slowing down. Neither does Knuble either.
How about Knuble's point totals dropping each year for the past 4 years?

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07-02-2009, 01:41 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
please provide me with any facts yourself. Every single post about all these signings are opinion. But when you don't agree you make the dumb post of 'provide facts'. Well why don't you provide facts to discount me! Easy answer. We are all speculating.
You are all over the map and it seems like you don't even know which posters you are trying to reply to.

Regarding my point about other interested teams, all you have to do is listen to the many Cole interviews or read quotes from his agent or Rutherford. You said you had "PLENTY" to stand on that weakly rested on the premise that common sense told you there must not have been any calls if he signed so quickly. Sorry but your logic is transparent: an anti-Cole bias and then creating your own version of reality.

You also wrote this knee-slapper when I stated that Cole would start out playing with Staal: "Cole will not be playing with Staal either, so that doesn't make sense with your argument." Really? How convenient to be able to foretell the future. Notice how you freely substitute opinion for fact? Probably not, but it's apparent nonetheless.

You are also making an apples and oranges comparison between Cole and Knuble which is moot anyway. So do you honestly think Knuble would have been a good fit for the Canes first line? If so, I'd love to see a detailed reasoning that goes beyond him being a "monster" on the PP. And can you demonstrate that it came down to the two of them for the Canes? I'm sure you will have "PLENTY" of self-serving speculation but little else.

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07-02-2009, 02:08 PM
  #84
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it really comes down to how Cole plays.

If he's healthy, skating and productive, his value *blows away* the value of Knuble and/or LaRose. He's worth every penny of $4 million when he's playing a true "power forward" game. If he's floating, complaining to refs and banged up, he's probably not worth $2.9.

I personally feel that the upside of a $2.9 million Cole outweighs the upside of a $2.5 million Knuble and/or LaRose. YMMV.

At times like these, it's virtually impossible to guage the monetary value of a guy like Cole or LaRose, since they bring so many "intangibles" to the table. Stats aside, the team *did* play better with Cole, and Staal clearly upped his game. How much is that worth in dollars? I have no idea.

But if you factor *everything* together: Cole's upside, happiness in the room, Staal's increase in production, and the fact that it would take Knuble a while to integrate himself into the team, on and off the ice, and I think this is the right move.

Only time will tell for sure.

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07-02-2009, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
I'm sure you will have "PLENTY" of self-serving speculation but little else.
Only if I follow your lead...


I am done with this because it doesn't matter... but come next year we will fielding a team that is at best the same as last year and at worst, slightly worse...

I hope JR does let all the type A guys sign and eat up cap rooms of other teams and go hard after a top 4 D and top 6 F of the guys left... For us to improve, this is a must... I just would like Cole's $3mil left in the bank to make this happen..

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07-02-2009, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
Only if I follow your lead...


I am done with this because it doesn't matter... but come next year we will fielding a team that is at best the same as last year and at worst, slightly worse...

I hope JR does let all the type A guys sign and eat up cap rooms of other teams and go hard after a top 4 D and top 6 F of the guys left... For us to improve, this is a must... I just would like Cole's $3mil left in the bank to make this happen..
Quite the contrary but I guess you are taking a pass on providing a detailed analysis on Knuble's potential fit on the first line? Pity.

I just heard another interview with Cole on the 850's blog. Give it a listen, it might help you get more informed on the topic, but then again....

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07-02-2009, 03:14 PM
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Ask yourself this... How many teams in the NHL would Cole be on the first line?

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07-02-2009, 03:21 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
Ask yourself this... How many teams in the NHL would Cole be on the first line?
Really...who cares what line he plays on if he scores 50 points? He's not being paid like a 1st liner. At best he returns to the Cole we love...pre-broken neck Cole. At worst he becomes a depth forward with good chemistry. And at 2.9M there are many worse contracts/players on there

Man you complain a lot

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07-02-2009, 03:25 PM
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I don't complain at all... I'm not really happy with this FA period but this is a message board to do that...

I'm just saying, you guys are saying he will play with Staal all year, which makes him a first liner... Is his $2.8 among our top 3 F salaries? If it is, then we are paying like a first liner... I assume Ruutu will get more then that if we are able to keep him though...

Once again, expressing an opinion that we aren't spending our budget money well... You say we are... Congrats, that's what message boards are for...

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07-02-2009, 03:45 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
I don't complain at all... I'm not really happy with this FA period but this is a message board to do that...

I'm just saying, you guys are saying he will play with Staal all year, which makes him a first liner... Is his $2.8 among our top 3 F salaries? If it is, then we are paying like a first liner... I assume Ruutu will get more then that if we are able to keep him though...

Once again, expressing an opinion that we aren't spending our budget money well... You say we are... Congrats, that's what message boards are for...
Ruutu will almost certainly be paid more than him. That would make 4 forwards (Staal, Whitney, Brind'Amour and Ruutu) paid more than him with Cullen just a hair less and Samsonov less than 400k less. Walker is also being paid less than half a million less. EDIT: In fact, here is how he slots on the team in terms of overall salary:

1. Staal - 6M
2. Pitkanen - 4M
3. Whitney - 3.55M
4. Ward - 3.5M
5. Ruutu - 3-3.5M
6. Brind'Amour - 3M
7. Cullen - 2.8M
8. Cole - 2.8M
9. Corvo - 2.75M
10. Walker - 2.5M
11. Samsonov - 2.5M
12. Gleason 2.5M

Not spending the budget money well is nothing new for this team. I'm not saying they're spending it well, but Cole at 2.9M is hardly something to complain about.


Last edited by What the Faulk: 07-02-2009 at 03:51 PM.
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07-02-2009, 03:48 PM
  #91
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Ruutu will almost certainly be paid more than him. That would make 4 forwards (Staal, Whitney, Brind'Amour and Ruutu) paid more than him with Cullen just a hair less and Samsonov less than 400k less. Walker is also being paid less than half a million less.

Not spending the budget money well is nothing new for this team. I'm not saying they're spending it well, but Cole at 2.9M is hardly something to complain about.
We can agree on that...

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07-02-2009, 05:31 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
I don't complain at all... I'm not really happy with this FA period but this is a message board to do that...

I'm just saying, you guys are saying he will play with Staal all year, which makes him a first liner... Is his $2.8 among our top 3 F salaries? If it is, then we are paying like a first liner... I assume Ruutu will get more then that if we are able to keep him though...

Once again, expressing an opinion that we aren't spending our budget money well... You say we are... Congrats, that's what message boards are for...
well thats the funny part, i think most of us are frustrated with the payroll, how its used, and most importantly jr's choices. very few of us agree with his tact, and every year most of us are disappointed. no one is saying he is a true 1st liner, and all of us would love jr to go get one, ive been following this mans moves since 94 - im not holding my breath. we just know that cole will get his shot playing with staal, till it doesnt work then someone else will.

me personally, i only have a problem with what youre saying about cole being overpaid - as i tried to explain to you i think its a miracle to get anyone to take a paycut. does he make more than his stats equal, well yeah over the last 2 years but we all know he is capable of more. cole isnt making too much for what he brings, in comparison to the rest of the league. you know who's salary peeves me the most? staal's. he makes more than lecavalier, almost as much as crosby, and he for two seasons has taken at least half the season off. if he showed up to play in oct - we wouldnt be squeezing into the last playoff spots. staals development took off the cup year, he was our best player every night from the get go, he tried to score goals single handedly all night. by the time he got hurt and slowed down, we were in the battle for 1st in the league and the whole season just took off from there. if youve noticed every season since, ive never seen THAT staal till maybe Feb. i find that truly annoying, as we definitely overpaid staal imo - and THAT more than 500k for cole or what have you is what effects our payroll the most, imo.

you think we're all against you, we're not - for the most part everyone agrees with the main problem - jr's budget and how he chooses to spend it vs how we would spend it. we're just on you because youre making cole the focal point of a much larger debate.

i would add a legit scorer to staals line, add one more legit top 4 d - preferably a no 2 guy, and then i would get to work on a second center to take over for old man river and glass jaw cullen. you build teams down the middle, and thats where we are falling off imo - d and at center. sutter isnt the answer, and boychuk strikes me as a wing. i hate waiting to see how he handles these things, because he always waits too long, then gets caught paying too much in assets or cash because everone knows he is desperate.

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07-02-2009, 05:49 PM
  #93
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Yeah, bit of an overpayment but I am semi-glad he is back. Not because I am a Cole fan (we all know better than that), but because I didn't want to rush multiple kids into the NHL.

We can forget about a "real" top line winger now, though.
I really don't understand this attitude.

But I will look forward to you eating your words next season.
Cole - 70 pts
Staal - 100+ pts
Ruutu - 60+ pts

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07-02-2009, 05:51 PM
  #94
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I really don't understand this attitude.

But I will look forward to you eating your words next season.
Cole - 70 pts
Staal - 100+ pts
Ruutu - 60+ pts
I like the enthusiasm, someone needs that around here haha.

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07-04-2009, 09:30 AM
  #95
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Just back into town, and saw the deal flash up at a sports bar while I was gone. First instinct was - short term, less money, I'll live with that.

In the next 9 months we see where Erik Cole's career goes. I've always been worried about his long-term health. I recall vividly several years ago Paul Maurice saying that Cole would probably always have to play with a lot of pain, and that was in his first stint here before the neck.

But if we thought there was an issue with his health, we don't make a deal to sign him as a UFA (unless the short term nature of it is a stopgap). No one (other than Cole himself) knows his health better than our team. And we resigned him when we didn't have to. Maybe he was playing through something last season and the team knew it.

Lots of possibilities that we don't know the answers to. But again, the people who knew the answers resigned him when they didn't have to.

So can he regain his scoring form? Hopefully this season and not during contract year. I agree that his one-trick pony days are behind him, but I'm sure everyone include Cole knows that the drop-shoulder drive is overplayed. He has to expand his game, and he's at the point in his career where guys either broaden their game or their careers wind down. I'm guessing that the staff and Cole both know that and are working on it.

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07-04-2009, 09:53 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by totalkev View Post
it really comes down to how Cole plays.

I personally feel that the upside of a $2.9 million Cole outweighs the upside of a $2.5 million Knuble and/or LaRose. YMMV.

it's virtually impossible to guage the monetary value of a guy like Cole or LaRose, since they bring so many "intangibles" to the table. Stats aside, the team *did* play better with Cole, and Staal clearly upped his game. How much is that worth in dollars? I have no idea.

But if you factor *everything* together: Cole's upside, happiness in the room, Staal's increase in production, I think this is the right move.

Only time will tell for sure.
That's one of the best most thoughtful posts I've seen. You are 100% correct.

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Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
come next year we will fielding a team that is at best the same as last year and at worst, slightly worse...
I disagree. Cole will be with the team for the whole season and healthy. That alone will improve the team. Plus, the UFA signings haven't happened yet, and we don't know which of the rookies might break out.

I think (for once) I can honestly say that the team will definitely be better next year.

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Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
Ask yourself this... How many teams in the NHL would Cole be on the first line?
Plenty. Florida, Tampa, and Atlanta, just in our division alone. And possibly Washington, for that matter.

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Originally Posted by Citizen Cane View Post
In the next 9 months we see where Erik Cole's career goes. I've always been worried about his long-term health.
can he regain his scoring form? Hopefully
He will. I don't think he will be the 2005 Cole, but he might get close. It's funny how nobody is showing any faith in Erik, except the Hurricanes' management. Maybe they know something we don't, you think? Like maybe the fact that he was playing hurt this year, and STILL caused an uptick in the team's performance, especially Staal's?

Think about it.


Last edited by ChuckW: 07-04-2009 at 10:06 AM.
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07-04-2009, 10:16 AM
  #97
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Chuck your entire last few posts are delusional... He is not a top line F on any team that doesn't include Staal, and I believe that our #1 line when all is said and done will be Stall/Ruutu/Whitney. 70 points is a pipe dream for Cole fyi... We should be ECSTATIC if we get 50.

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