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Old
07-04-2009, 04:44 PM
  #26
MathMan
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Originally Posted by earl the habs fan View Post
I personally don't see Plekanec being here on opening night. Just a hunch that Andrei will have someone else dishing it to him.
If Plekanec isn't on the Habs on opening night I'm going to have to question the direction of the team. He's the only remaining young, NHL-ready offensive center the Habs have.

I don't see how the Habs find a guy who's got Pleky's combination of youth, skill, and upside on the market. And replacing him with an older guy is not a good idea long-term, IMO.

Now, I could see another center being brought in and bumping off Metropolit instead.

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07-04-2009, 05:07 PM
  #27
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Cammy - Pleky - Akosty

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07-04-2009, 05:11 PM
  #28
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Pacioretty - Gomez - Gionta
Cammalleri - Plekanec - A. Kost

Add some size up front without diminishing speed.

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07-04-2009, 05:27 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
If Plekanec isn't on the Habs on opening night I'm going to have to question the direction of the team. He's the only remaining young, NHL-ready offensive center the Habs have.

I don't see how the Habs find a guy who's got Pleky's combination of youth, skill, and upside on the market. And replacing him with an older guy is not a good idea long-term, IMO.

Now, I could see another center being brought in and bumping off Metropolit instead.
Absolutely agree.

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07-04-2009, 05:42 PM
  #30
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sorry guys but patches is playing in the ahl this year. D'agostini will be round out the top 6 and play with pleky and ak46. It's for patches own good. Stop rushing him.

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07-04-2009, 05:49 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Hmmm... Let me throw something out just for fun.

Latendresse-Gomez-Gionta

SKost-Cammy-AKost
MaxPac-Pleky-d'Agostini
Stewart-Lapierre-Laraque

Swap MaxPac and Lats if you're worried Lats can't keep up with Gomez and Gionta.

This is the three-scoring-lines approach. Very different animal from the other lineups, but I think it could work.
Putting latendresse on the first line would obviously provide some size however he would slow the other guys down. You want your best playmaker (gomez) to play with your best goalscorer (cammaleri) therefore these 2 guys need to be on together. also, latendresse had good chemistry with lapierre so they'll definitely be on the 3rd line together.

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07-04-2009, 05:51 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by number9 View Post
Putting latendresse on the first line would obviously provide some size however he would slow the other guys down. You want your best playmaker (gomez) to play with your best goalscorer (cammaleri) therefore these 2 guys need to be on together.
Thing is, Lats is arguably the team's second-best goal-scorer, at least five-on-five. And Cammalleri isn't really a speed demon.

That said, I think Cammy and Gionta both need Gomez, so I'd unite those three and use Lats on the second line with Pleks and AKost.

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07-04-2009, 05:51 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
If Plekanec isn't on the Habs on opening night I'm going to have to question the direction of the team. He's the only remaining young, NHL-ready offensive center the Habs have.

I don't see how the Habs find a guy who's got Pleky's combination of youth, skill, and upside on the market. And replacing him with an older guy is not a good idea long-term, IMO.

Now, I could see another center being brought in and bumping off Metropolit instead.
We're too small and if we could trade Plek for somebody bigger, I say go for it. We need a big center and would gladly take Jordan Staal instead(if we can).

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Old
07-04-2009, 05:53 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
We're too small and if we could trade Plek for somebody bigger, I say go for it.
Not if it makes the team older. Besides, on being small -- despite all the press, being small has never been a major cause of problems for this team, especially not any of its playoff exits. Besides, Boston did fine with small forwards (especially small centers) last year, so it's not like it's guaranteed failure.

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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
We need a big center and would gladly take Jordan Staal instead(if we can).
So would I. This is a move I would approve of because it does not make the team older. Staal, at his age, could grow with the team, and with Gomez onboard, he would not be required to take on first-line center duties which he is not ready for.

Fat chance of it happening though.

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Old
07-04-2009, 06:09 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Thing is, Lats is arguably the team's second-best goal-scorer, at least five-on-five. And Cammalleri isn't really a speed demon.

That said, I think Cammy and Gionta both need Gomez, so I'd unite those three and use Lats on the second line with Pleks and AKost.
I usually agree with most of your comments but this....


Arguably? No, that's not even a question. Cammalleri, Gionta, A.Kostitsyn and Plekanec are all better than him, 5-on-5 or not.

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Old
07-04-2009, 07:15 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by SergeiKostitsyn74 View Post
Arguably? No, that's not even a question. Cammalleri, Gionta, A.Kostitsyn and Plekanec are all better than him, 5-on-5 or not.
Really now?

Code:
                    ESG/GP        ESG/60 (goals by icetime)
                 07-08  08-09    07-08    08-09
Latendresse      14/73  13/56    0.92     1.08 
Kostitsyn        14/78  17/74    0.88     1.03
Cammalleri        9/63  20/81    0.62     1.08
Gionta           13/81  14/82    0.59     0.79
Plekanec         15/81  11/80    0.90     0.63
Kovalev          18/82  14/78    0.94     0.83
Let's look at these numbers.

Last year, the only player who scored more goals at even-strength given his icetime was Alex Tanguay. The only two players to score more ESGs total were Kovalev and AKost -- Kovy isn't here and AKost had more games, more icetime, and better offensive linemates.

(That 17 ESGs in 08-09 along with the scoring rate really puts AKost's "bad" season in a different light, too. He actually improved as a 5-on-5 sniper. By way of comparison, Simon Gagne had 18.)

The year before, Lats tied AKost and was one ESG behind Plekanec. Again, Lats did so playing fewer games, less icetime, and worse offensive linemates. His scoring rate was higher than both AKost and Pleky, though all three were close to each other.

That leaves the new guys. Cammy scored 20 ESG last season, 6 more than Lats, but he had more icetime and better linemates (Iginla anyone?). His goal-scoring rate per 60 minutes was actually exactly the same (1.08, which is pretty high). The year before, Cammy had only nine even-strength goals, in 63 games -- more than it took Lats to pot 14 this year. His goal-scoring rate per icetime was barely above half of this year's. That was probably a fluke down season, really, as he has potted 18 ESGs the year before -- still, it was a year in which a rookie Guillaume Latendresse scored 11.

Finally Gionta. ESGs over the last two seasons: 13 and 14, sensibly the same as Lats but with more games and more icetime. His goal-scoring rates were thus corrensponding lower.

Lats has been a healthy scratch, has been played with pluggers most of the time, and still managed to be a team leader for even-strength goals over the last three years. If there is one thing the kid is good at, it's this. It really makes you wonder what Carbo was thinking by benching him and asking him to change his style of play.

In my opinion, the three best even-strength goal-scorers on the team are Cammalleri, Latendresse, and Andrei Kostitsyn, with Andrei and Lats being roughly even. So saying Lats is arguably the team's second-best ES goal-scorer certainly has support.

Power play wise it's a whole different ball game -- Lats has never been able to make it work there. Of course, he hasn't had a whole lot of chances either. This is where Cammalleri comes in.

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Old
07-04-2009, 07:20 PM
  #37
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honestly, andreis gonna have such a great season playing with players like who we brought in, i agree with whoever said, andrei k will basicaly replace kovalev, ..i KNOW he has that gret wrist shot but i think everyone underates too much just how amazing a passer andrei k really is, u stick pleks and patches with him and youll see alot of firepower from that line, and thats not even counting on what the smurf line can do, but even then, i wouldnt be opposed to SEE something OTHER then a gionta gomez cammel line, i rly dont think we should be afraid to mix up our top 6 as much as possible to find that right fit, because if and when we do... watch out... were just too fast and if we combine all those forwards JUUUUUUUST right, were going to be lethal... anyone who doesnt understand that is an indivudialist

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07-04-2009, 07:23 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
Pacioretty - Gomez - Gionta
Cammalleri - Plekanec - A. Kost

Add some size up front without diminishing speed.
honestly....wow...i truly love these lines... why do i get the insane feeling patches will mesh SO freakin well with gomez and gionta, and i feel like cammeleri is the one thing plekanec has been missing his entire career, and andrei k, well lets just hope he bounces back BIGTIME, he scored 20+ last 2 years and were all STILL not satisfied lol, bring the rain boys

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Old
07-04-2009, 07:25 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Really now?

Code:
                    ESG/GP        ESG/60 (goals by icetime)
                 07-08  08-09    07-08    08-09
Latendresse      14/73  13/56    0.92     1.08 
Kostitsyn        14/78  17/74    0.88     1.03
Cammalleri        9/63  20/81    0.62     1.08
Gionta           13/81  14/82    0.59     0.79
Plekanec         15/81  11/80    0.90     0.63
Kovalev          18/82  14/78    0.94     0.83
Let's look at these numbers.

Last year, the only player who scored more goals at even-strength given his icetime was Alex Tanguay. The only two players to score more ESGs total were Kovalev and AKost -- Kovy isn't here and AKost had more games, more icetime, and better offensive linemates.

(That 17 ESGs in 08-09 along with the scoring rate really puts AKost's "bad" season in a different light, too. He actually improved as a 5-on-5 sniper. By way of comparison, Simon Gagne had 18.)

The year before, Lats tied AKost and was one ESG behind Plekanec. Again, Lats did so playing fewer games, less icetime, and worse offensive linemates. His scoring rate was higher than both AKost and Pleky, though all three were close to each other.

That leaves the new guys. Cammy scored 20 ESG last season, 6 more than Lats, but he had more icetime and better linemates (Iginla anyone?). His goal-scoring rate per 60 minutes was actually exactly the same (1.08, which is pretty high). The year before, Cammy had only nine even-strength goals, in 63 games -- more than it took Lats to pot 14 this year. His goal-scoring rate per icetime was barely above half of this year's. That was probably a fluke down season, really, as he has potted 18 ESGs the year before -- still, it was a year in which a rookie Guillaume Latendresse scored 11.

Finally Gionta. ESGs over the last two seasons: 13 and 14, sensibly the same as Lats but with more games and more icetime. His goal-scoring rates were thus corrensponding lower.

Lats has been a healthy scratch, has been played with pluggers most of the time, and still managed to be a team leader for even-strength goals over the last three years. If there is one thing the kid is good at, it's this. It really makes you wonder what Carbo was thinking by benching him and asking him to change his style of play.

In my opinion, the three best even-strength goal-scorers on the team are Cammalleri, Latendresse, and Andrei Kostitsyn, with Andrei and Lats being roughly even. So saying Lats is arguably the team's second-best ES goal-scorer certainly has support.

Power play wise it's a whole different ball game -- Lats has never been able to make it work there. Of course, he hasn't had a whole lot of chances either. This is where Cammalleri comes in.
Nice job on the research so I'll concede, he's good at scoring ESG...... but I still stand by that he's not even close to being considered one of our "top scorers".

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Old
07-04-2009, 07:28 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by SergeiKostitsyn74 View Post
Nice job on the research so I'll concede, he's good at scoring ESG...... but I still stand by that he's not even close to being considered one of our "top scorers".
I genuinely feel that the only thing between him and that designation is more icetime with offensive players. Every indication is that he could make excellent use of it.

Hopefully Martin won't be like Carbo and demand that he be Milan Lucic and use him like the scorer he is instead. Gui just might turn out to be the better player if he does.

Also? That chart I posted? Lats is the youngest player on it.

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Old
07-04-2009, 07:30 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
I genuinely feel that the only thing between him and that designation is more icetime with offensive players. Every indication is that he could make excellent use of it.

Hopefully Martin won't be like Carbo and demand that he be Milan Lucic and use him like the scorer he is instead. Gui just might turn out to be the better player if he does.

Also? That chart I posted? Lats is the youngest player on it.
jacques martin ... is lightyears ahead of anything resembling guy carbonneau as a coach... carbo was one of the worst thing to ever happen to this club where as martin arguably, in my opinion, is the best "signing" weve made this off season, and i love what weve done so far to boot

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