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Andrew Raycroft signed - One Year, $500k

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Old
07-06-2009, 05:43 PM
  #226
pitseleh
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Originally Posted by Scotiabank View Post
I'm not really sure I buy the idea that getting Schneider NHL games will up his value to a significant degree. I don't think NHL teams are so clueless that they're going to go from "never heard of that guy" to "OMG, let's trade for him!" based on 3 games in the NHL.
NHL teams decide whether players are good enough to stay in the NHL in ridiculously small sample sizes all the time. The difference between a prospect who tore up the AHL and played poorly in half a dozen games in the NHL and a prospect who played very well over a season as a backup are different things to NHL teams if history is any indication.

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I'm sure all NHL teams have heard of him and are aware of his potential, as well as what he's accomplished in lower levels. There is bound to be some bad team out there willing to roll the dice and give him a legit shot at being their #1.
That's true, but it's more a question of whether you are maximizing your return.

The problem is that there are still a few quality #1 goalies (Fernandez, Biron) available through FA and more proven young goalies like Josh Harding and maybe Ondrej Pavelec available through trade. Plus the Jonas Gustavsson sweepstakes is holding up some teams that may have interest at the moment. There just isn't much in the way of starting goalie vacancies at the moment (off the top of my head I can't think of one with Edmonton and Colorado signing goalies in the last week) and there is a glut of goalies available.

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07-06-2009, 05:44 PM
  #227
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I don't mind the signing.

I'll like it even more if he doesn't play a single NHL game next season.

It's a neat trick though - they have to have a backup goalie to ride the pine. But they can bring Schneider up and down for short periods to actually play in games where Luongo is sitting.

Luongo plays the bulk of the Canucks games, Schneider is the AHL starter but also picks up odd games in the NHL, and Raymond collects an NHL salary. Everyone wins!

One thing that this does affect, if they are indeed planning on shuttling Schneider back and forth, is that it will eat up a roster spot when Schneider is up. So at least one of the regular extra forwards would have to be on a two way deal this season so they can be sent the other way.

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07-06-2009, 05:46 PM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
In absolute agreement. The only way to get his value up is for him to get SIGNIFICANT playing time (20+ games) at the NHL level AND hope like hell he can show the ability to step his game up from the AHL level.

3 games isn't going to accomplish anything...
Correct.

And how are we going to get him 20+ games while we're paying Luongo 7M/year?

The Canucks are in a very unique position where they have a top-flight goalie prospect who was named AHL goalie of the year, but have no place for him and aren't going to trade teh starter to make room for him. It's hard to imagine what he'd get in a trade because I don't know if that's ever happened before.

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07-06-2009, 05:48 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by timw33 View Post
but thats exactly what Avalanche fans said too.
Key difference: the Avs signed him be in a 1A/1B tandem, when the 1A guy just wasn't very good in the first place!

Vancouver signed him to be the 3rd string goalie behind one of the best goalies in the league, and one of the top upcoming goalies in the league.

Whether Raycroft succeeds or fails is really very insignificant. Gillis already proved you could get a capable backup in the midseason for peanuts.

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07-06-2009, 05:52 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
Key difference: the Avs signed him be in a 1A/1B tandem, when the 1A guy just wasn't very good in the first place!

Vancouver signed him to be the 3rd string goalie behind one of the best goalies in the league, and one of the top upcoming goalies in the league.

Whether Raycroft succeeds or fails is really very insignificant. Gillis already proved you could get a capable backup in the midseason for peanuts.
Oh definitely, he'll have to battle to be the back-up or else he is Manitoba bound.

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07-06-2009, 05:54 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
NHL teams decide whether players are good enough to stay in the NHL in ridiculously small sample sizes all the time. The difference between a prospect who tore up the AHL and played poorly in half a dozen games in the NHL and a prospect who played very well over a season as a backup are different things to NHL teams if history is any indication.



That's true, but it's more a question of whether you are maximizing your return.

The problem is that there are still a few quality #1 goalies (Fernandez, Biron) available through FA and more proven young goalies like Josh Harding and maybe Ondrej Pavelec available through trade. Plus the Jonas Gustavsson sweepstakes is holding up some teams that may have interest at the moment. There just isn't much in the way of starting goalie vacancies at the moment (off the top of my head I can't think of one with Edmonton and Colorado signing goalies in the last week) and there is a glut of goalies available.
Maybe not as a guaranteed starter. But there's probably a situation where he can compete as a 1A/1B. Maybe in Toronto with Toskala?

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07-06-2009, 05:54 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Scotiabank View Post
And how are we going to get him 20+ games while we're paying Luongo 7M/year?
Yep, it's a real problem. Given the likely low return value of Schneider at this stage of his development, we're basically looking at burning a good 1st round pick if Luongo extends. Doesn't mean extending Luongo is the wrong thing to do, necessarily, it just means there is more to the cost of Luongo than just dollars to consider.

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07-06-2009, 06:01 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Yep, it's a real problem. Given the likely low return value of Schneider at this stage of his development, we're basically looking at burning a good 1st round pick if Luongo extends. Doesn't mean extending Luongo is the wrong thing to do, necessarily, it just means there is more to the cost of Luongo than just dollars to consider.
So ... we agree?

My position isn't that Schneider's value is especially high, just that it's not going to get much higher. Something is always better than nothing. Either trade Luongo to make room for him, or deal him while his value is at his highest. I simply can't imagine his value getting any better over the next year or so unless Lou gets hurt and he dominates. I think he'll fetch more as a 23 year old fresh off a stellar AHL campaign than he will as a 25 year old getting 10 games in the NHL each year.

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07-06-2009, 06:04 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Scotiabank View Post
I simply can't imagine his value getting any better over the next year or so unless Lou gets hurt and he dominates.
I think that's our only difference. I can see Gillis/AV sitting Luongo down and explaining that playing less this season is better for the long term quality of the franchise. I could also see Luongo demanding an $8M cap hit and Gillis telling him to go F himself.

Speaking of which...WTF happened to Luongo's extension? It was "almost done" a week ago and it's been nearly a week since it was "supposed" to be announced?

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07-06-2009, 06:09 PM
  #235
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Can't hurt, I suppose...

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07-06-2009, 06:12 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
I think that's our only difference. I can see Gillis/AV sitting Luongo down and explaining that playing less this season is better for the long term quality of the franchise. I could also see Luongo demanding an $8M cap hit and Gillis telling him to go F himself.
Yeah. I don't see it. Luongo, as we all know, is extremely competitive and I can't envision a scenario where he accepts his playing time reduced out of humility.

If this were a video game, I would happily send him somewhere for a few top young players, and take my chances with Schneider. Of course, I can't quite blame Gillis for not doing that in reality. :-D

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07-06-2009, 06:13 PM
  #237
mrmyheadhurts
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Oh man, just when I got over the scarring of the Potvin years!

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07-06-2009, 06:14 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Scotiabank View Post
Luongo, as we all know, is extremely competitive and I can't envision a scenario where he accepts his playing time reduced out of humility.
Ah...

the Heatley defense.



(Just kidding)

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07-06-2009, 06:15 PM
  #239
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Oh man, just when I got over the scarring of the Potvin years!
Over dramatic much?

During the Potvin years, Potvin was the starting goaltender.


It just so happens that we have Roberto Luongo to play 70+ of the games, no big deal.

That and Raycroft has NOT made the team yet.

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07-06-2009, 06:17 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Ah...

the Heatley defense.



(Just kidding)
Well, Luongo demanding a trade would sure make things easier!

Incidentally, I very much remember watching Raycroft play for Boston a few years ago and thinking he was stellar. Young goalies will break your heart . . .

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07-06-2009, 06:26 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Ernie View Post

One thing that this does affect, if they are indeed planning on shuttling Schneider back and forth, is that it will eat up a roster spot when Schneider is up. So at least one of the regular extra forwards would have to be on a two way deal this season so they can be sent the other way.
thats not what a two way deal is

this is my biggest pet peeve on this board and it's all EA's fault

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07-06-2009, 06:34 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Ernie View Post

Luongo plays the bulk of the Canucks games, Schneider is the AHL starter but also picks up odd games in the NHL, and Raymond collects an NHL salary. Everyone wins!
Thats why everybody loves raymond.

but seriously i agree with your theory.

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07-06-2009, 06:46 PM
  #243
hackey
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$500k is obviously great for the Nucks cap... but has this player lost so much confidence to continuously
take these pay cuts... to the league minimum no less?

Goalies who want to sit on their butt all season and still stay in the big leagues will sign with Vancouver,
since they know they'll only play 7 to 10 games a year behind Luongo.

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07-06-2009, 06:53 PM
  #244
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$500k is obviously great for the Nucks cap... but has this player lost so much confidence to continuously
take these pay cuts... to the league minimum no less?
I think he'll be okay, considering Toronto is still paying him more than we are!

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07-06-2009, 07:48 PM
  #245
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IMO, this is the definition of a meh signing. Like the price, don't like Raycroft, but thankfully it doesn't really matter.

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07-06-2009, 07:53 PM
  #246
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Anyone know if it is for sure a one-way deal? Even if it is, I wonder if there is any chance the Canucks signed him to play in Manitoba? I mean Aquilini paid over $1M for Michel Ouelette and Jason Krog to play in Manitoba last season.

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07-06-2009, 07:56 PM
  #247
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Anyone know if it is for sure a one-way deal? Even if it is, I wonder if there is any chance the Canucks signed him to play in Manitoba? I mean Aquilini paid over $1M for Michel Ouelette and Jason Krog to play in Manitoba last season.
His agent said it was one-way.

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07-06-2009, 08:02 PM
  #248
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Anyone know if it is for sure a one-way deal? Even if it is, I wonder if there is any chance the Canucks signed him to play in Manitoba? I mean Aquilini paid over $1M for Michel Ouelette and Jason Krog to play in Manitoba last season.
We won't exactly how much - but it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume Krog got more than half his paycheque effectively from the Moose.

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07-06-2009, 08:05 PM
  #249
mrmyheadhurts
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Originally Posted by timw33 View Post
Over dramatic much?

During the Potvin years, Potvin was the starting goaltender.


It just so happens that we have Roberto Luongo to play 70+ of the games, no big deal.

That and Raycroft has NOT made the team yet.

Sense of humour much? And who'd this Luongo fella you speak of?

It was a joke, relax. Do you really think I'm worried about signing a guy for the league minimum who will play 12 games max if any at all?

It's a depth signing and a pretty insignificant one.

Calm yourself. I can't believe you called ME the dramatic one out of this exchange!!

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07-06-2009, 08:10 PM
  #250
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Still can't believe how badly we got hosed on the Potvin deal...Muckalt, Weekes and Scatchard. Yikes. Scatchard was the only one who turned out to be pretty good, but Muckalt was off to a good start as a Canuck, who knows how he could have done had he stayed. Weekes...well yeah, he needed to go.

~Canucklehead~

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