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Why Bob Gainey Still Has A Job

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Old
07-13-2009, 03:15 AM
  #26
HockeyThoughts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
you are missing one important thing...

gainey is the one responsible for assembling that "aging and underperforming" core.
in the process he let go of some pretty talented young-youngish assets for absolutely nothing (Souray, Ribeiro, Ryder, Streit), lost 2 valuable young assets to waiver blunders (hainsey, beauchemin), and as a result for all of his work, got to watch the bulk of the talent he had presided over walk away for nothing (kovalev, koivu, komisarek, tanguay, lang, schneider...) AND trade away 2 young assets for one of the replacements.

all in all, the team may well be better this coming season, but looking at what he had and what he's done with it, it's pretty hard to feel any confidence about his run as GM for the habs.
Again however, the majority of his "aging core" he stuck with for a number of years, and they ultimately led him nowhere.

Mike Komisarek = 6 Seasons (Drafted in Mtl)
Saku Koivu = 13 Seasons (Drafted in Mtl)
Alex Kovalev = 5 Seasons

While Schneider and Lang are just very old players, and I can't say anything about Tanguay I don't know about his situation. When Michael Ryder left Montreal his value was at an all-time low coming off an uninspired 14G-31pt season. Mike Ribeiro was much maligned as a diver, playoff choker and had numerous conflicts with long-time captain Saku Koivu, while Ribeiro's trade return was a bad joke, I think it was Gainey's mission to just get rid of him before any damage could be done. The only explanation I can come up with for the loss of Streit and Souray, two of the driving forces for the former undisputed #1 PP in the NHL, is that Gainey believed they were a product of the system, not vice-versa.

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Old
07-13-2009, 05:57 AM
  #27
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You are not according for when those "aging veterans" who were with the Habs for numerous seasons, were playing on a team that had no business making the playoffs. Of those thirteen seasons, Koivu was only on a good enough Habs squad many three times. Kovalev arguably had two seasons where the Habs were good and so forth. Furthermore I do not know why everyone is blaming age so heavily. While some had a difficult team shaking off the derailing of the Canadiens, not everyone.

Tanguay was actually one of Montreal's best players, despite his injury. Kovalev put up expected numbers and Koivu was indeed on a decline last year. I'll still argue that had these three been together immediately following the fallout of the AK27, Plek and AK27 line, results would have been much higher.

I cannot deny Gainey went out and got some talent, what concerns me is the duration Montreal is locked in. If Gomez has not rebound from his disaster of a season in New York, that will be one of the worst trades in a decade. If Gointa has yet another sixty point season, it will appear as poor judgment on Gainey's part. There are so many what ifs, of course everything could come up smelling like roses. It will certainly be interesting.

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07-13-2009, 06:14 AM
  #28
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Weird he mentions Komisarek as a signing...

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07-13-2009, 06:32 AM
  #29
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Why is HFBoards affiliated with such garbage?

I've yet to read a decent, insightful article from that website.


Last edited by Holly Gunning: 07-16-2009 at 07:18 AM. Reason: boards, not site
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Old
07-13-2009, 07:50 AM
  #30
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Is this an article on the Islanders and Milbury with a picture of Gainey?

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Old
07-13-2009, 08:47 AM
  #31
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The better question is why Stan Fischler still has a job.

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07-13-2009, 09:49 AM
  #32
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Man this Gomez trade has got to be the most overhyped thing I've ever seen.

He traded away Chris Higgins, who I really, really like, but who was never really THAT good. Higgins is not a top 6 player on a good team. He's a reasonable top 6 player on a mediocre team. He's very useful in other ways, like the PK and such, but again, he's not a superstar and I think it's unlikely that he's suddenly going to become amazing (though, I guess it's possible). He just never really panned out...And while at one point it looked like he was going to be a 40-40 guy, I just don't see it happening.

As for McDonagh, it hurts to lose a good prospect like that but McDonagh is still at least 4-5 years away. He's going back to school this year for sure, and then he needs a few years in the AHL. Even then, he's not going to be ready for a top4 role in the NHL when he first comes up.

The only issue I have with the Gomez trade is the cap hit, but in the end, I find that the cap hit means nothing and there have been plenty of teams who are doing just fine despite being capped out to the max. Especially if the amnesty buyouts happen.

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Old
07-13-2009, 10:00 AM
  #33
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This article was so terrible it defies all english words. Is this site considered borderline serious ?

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Old
07-13-2009, 11:53 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Man this Gomez trade has got to be the most overhyped thing I've ever seen.

He traded away Chris Higgins, who I really, really like, but who was never really THAT good. Higgins is not a top 6 player on a good team. He's a reasonable top 6 player on a mediocre team. He's very useful in other ways, like the PK and such, but again, he's not a superstar and I think it's unlikely that he's suddenly going to become amazing (though, I guess it's possible). He just never really panned out...And while at one point it looked like he was going to be a 40-40 guy, I just don't see it happening.

As for McDonagh, it hurts to lose a good prospect like that but McDonagh is still at least 4-5 years away. He's going back to school this year for sure, and then he needs a few years in the AHL. Even then, he's not going to be ready for a top4 role in the NHL when he first comes up.

The only issue I have with the Gomez trade is the cap hit, but in the end, I find that the cap hit means nothing and there have been plenty of teams who are doing just fine despite being capped out to the max. Especially if the amnesty buyouts happen.
When a team wants to dump a Scott Gomez, you give them back one of your bad contracts and ask them for something else in return to help them out. You don't...

A) give up two defense prospects (Valentenko is a better asset than either Pyatt or Busto) of your own.

and...

B) build your entire offense around Scott Gomez.

It seems to me Gainey's entire master plan was geared around Vincent Lecavalier. When he became unavailable, Gainey's plan B or C (depending on whether you believe Daniel Briere was plan B or not) was Scott Gomez. There is clearly a difference between Lecavalier and Gomez, talent-wise, center-of-a-retooling job-wise, etc.

That screams epic fail to me, but hey it's just one man's opinion.

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07-13-2009, 11:57 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
When a team wants to dump a Scott Gomez, you give them back one of your bad contracts and ask them for something else in return to help them out. You don't...

A) give up two defense prospects (Valentenko is a better asset than either Pyatt or Busto) of your own.
and...

B) build your entire offense around Scott Gomez.

It seems to me Gainey's entire master plan was geared around Vincent Lecavalier. When he became unavailable, Gainey's plan B or C (depending on whether you believe Daniel Briere was plan B or not) was Scott Gomez. There is clearly a difference between Lecavalier and Gomez, talent-wise, center-of-a-retooling job-wise, etc.

That screams epic fail to me, but hey it's just one man's opinion.
You might want to do some fact checking on that...Valentenko bolted for Russia mid-way through the year last year and signed a 2 or 3 year deal with that Russian team. He wasn't coming back to Montreal and no one knows if he's even coming at all, furthermore with Subban, Weber, Carle and even Yemelin ahead of him on the depth chart, losing him does almost nothing. Tom Pyatt should play an important role in Hamilton this year and might even challenge for a spot in Montreal or at least be a call up.

2 years ago, hell probably even 1 year ago, if I would of proposed Chris Higgins + Ryan McDonagh for Scott Gomez, I would of been laughed off this board.

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07-13-2009, 12:00 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
You might want to do some fact checking on that...Valentenko bolted for Russia mid-way through the year last year and signed a 2 or 3 year deal with that Russian team. He wasn't coming back to Montreal and no one knows if he's even coming at all. Tom Pyatt should play an important role in Hamilton this year and might even challenge for a spot in Montreal or at least be a call up.
The key word is asset. The Rangers have guys like Anisimov and Grachev. They have a strong rapport with Russian talent. If they are able to get him to come back (and when a Russian has already been in NA, I believe there's a better shot he'd come back--see Babchuk, Anton), then Valentenko's NHL aspirations are greater than Pyatt's.

This changes nothing re: the rest of my post.

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Old
07-13-2009, 12:02 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
2 years ago, hell probably even 1 year ago, if I would of proposed Chris Higgins + Ryan McDonagh for Scott Gomez, I would of been laughed off this board.
Last year? Uh no. The year before was Gomez' contract year...and that's when everything went downhill for him. I was one of those people that thought getting out of NJ's trapping style would do wonders for Gomez. As it turned out, Gomez needed it.

So I guess that's the good news, since Martin's style will be similar to NJ. But still, the main point is you don't build an offense around Scott Gomez.

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Old
07-13-2009, 12:03 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by MaxHockeyBro View Post
Stan Fischler explains why Bob Gainey still has a job. The guy makes a real strong argument. Its hard to debate.
http://www.maxhockey.com/Fischler/Fischler_071209.php
Just read the article, still trying to find to strong argument. Why wouldn't he have a job? Because the team went sour the 2nd half of last season?

Fishler should just stick to covering the Devils, and perhaps ask the same question about his GM...how many playoff rounds have the Devils won in the last few years?

I mean I like Lamoriello, but I was just making the same kind of dumb argument. It's ridiculous to think that a GM's work should be judged on half a season. There's so much to factor in, and I even laugh at those who judge Gainey by saying he had 5 years and didn't win a cup...laughable.

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Old
07-13-2009, 12:04 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Etienne View Post
First of all, how can anyone think losing his job could scare the man is beyond me. ->Read this if you're among those who do <- He obviously cares a great deal about the team, but he's been in the business long enough to know that getting fired is bound to happen and it certainly won't be the worst news he's had, not even close.
Exactly what I think. I mean, do people honestly thinks the guy is scared to lose his job? Do you really think his last thought before sleeping is ''how do I keep my job?''.

Everyone is entitle to have their opinion on the moves of Bob Gainey. You may like them or not, it's ok, but if anyone thinks the guy spent that much money and change the face of this club because he's scared of losing his job is absolutely wrong.

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Old
07-13-2009, 12:09 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
The key word is asset. The Rangers have guys like Anisimov and Grachev. They have a strong rapport with Russian talent. If they are able to get him to come back (and when a Russian has already been in NA, I believe there's a better shot he'd come back--see Babchuk, Anton), then Valentenko's NHL aspirations are greater than Pyatt's.

This changes nothing re: the rest of my post.
The Canadiens obviously feel that Valentenko isn't coming back to play for them.. Therefore, he is of no value to them. If he comes over to North America to play for the Rangers, that's great, but also of no concern to Montreal.

I know the goal on HF is to stockpile prospects and all, but what's the point of having this guy you feel will never play for you rotting away in your system when you can use him as an asset in a trade for something that will help you?

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07-13-2009, 12:27 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
The key word is asset. The Rangers have guys like Anisimov and Grachev. They have a strong rapport with Russian talent. If they are able to get him to come back (and when a Russian has already been in NA, I believe there's a better shot he'd come back--see Babchuk, Anton), then Valentenko's NHL aspirations are greater than Pyatt's.

This changes nothing re: the rest of my post.
And? What does the Rangers having Anisimov and Grachev have to do with anything other than them sharing the same nationality as Valentenko? The Habs also have Russians and have had a history and an even stronger rapport with Russian talent. Also, how are Valentenko's NHL aspirations greater than Pyatt's? Pyatt will be at an NHL camp next year, Valentenko will not.

Also, before this trade...did you even know who Pavel Valentenko was? Also, the Habs already have 2 Russian's who've they've had issues over contracts that being Yemelin and Perezhogin and they've got another in Korrneev who they're unclear on. I don't think they felt like going in the same direction with Valentenko...so they included him in the trade, no big deal.

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Old
07-13-2009, 12:35 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
But still, the main point is you don't build an offense around Scott Gomez.
No you don't, it's not like a team ever won a cup doing that.

Hmm, what?



Oh, sorry.

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Old
07-13-2009, 12:38 PM
  #43
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Wait a minute. Let me get this straight.

For two years habs fans have been offering Higgins in trade deals on the trade boards and we got laughed it. Wasn't there a thread saying that Higgins was one of the most overrated players in terms of trade value and that he wasn't even that good? Now all of a sudden he's an asset and everyone is arguing that habs lost out on a great player? Please you guys are so two-faced it's not even funny, give me 10 minutes and I'll be back with threads proving what I've just mentioned.

I won't even get started on McDonough because habs fans were laughed off the prospects board during the WJC because we got excited about his potential, now that he's no longer a Canadiens prospect everyone is raving how we are stupid for giving up a potential top two d-man?

Please all of you, get your head out of your *****.

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07-13-2009, 12:44 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Weird he mentions Komisarek as a signing...
This should discredit Stan Fischler even more.

I heard Montréal also signed Kovalev too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Wait a minute. Let me get this straight.

For two years habs fans have been offering Higgins in trade deals on the trade boards and we got laughed it. Wasn't there a thread saying that Higgins was one of the most overrated players in terms of trade value and that he wasn't even that good? Now all of a sudden he's an asset and everyone is arguing that habs lost out on a great player? Please you guys are so two-faced it's not even funny, give me 10 minutes and I'll be back with threads proving what I've just mentioned.

I won't even get started on McDonough because habs fans were laughed off the prospects board during the WJC because we got excited about his potential, now that he's no longer a Canadiens prospect everyone is raving how we are stupid for giving up a potential top two d-man?

Please all of you, get your head out of your *****.
C'est hfboards.

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Old
07-13-2009, 01:05 PM
  #45
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No you don't, it's not like a team ever won a cup doing that.

Hmm, what?



Oh, sorry.
Because the Habs are exactly like the Devils, goaltender and all.

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Old
07-13-2009, 01:15 PM
  #46
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Stan Fischler explains why Bob Gainey still has a job. The guy makes a real strong argument. Its hard to debate.
http://www.maxhockey.com/Fischler/Fischler_071209.php
This site is terrible. Please stop posting your links.

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Old
07-13-2009, 01:15 PM
  #47
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/thread.

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Old
07-13-2009, 01:16 PM
  #48
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Because the Habs are exactly like the Devils, goaltender and all.
Carey Price is like 10x the goalie that no-namer in New Jersey is.

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07-13-2009, 01:46 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Weird he mentions Komisarek as a signing...

Quote:
Scotty Gomez, Mike Cammelleri, Brian Gionta, Mike Komisarek, Travis Moen, Paul Mara.
Komisarek, Gill what's the difference??

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07-13-2009, 01:48 PM
  #50
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Komisarek, Gill what's the difference??
Two million dollars and a Stanley Cup ring?

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