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Martin's "system" - please explain.

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Old
07-13-2009, 04:03 PM
  #26
One Trick Pony
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The 4 guys waiting on our blue line looks a lot like what NJ always does. This means Gomez and Gionta are already used to it so it's a +

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Old
07-13-2009, 04:04 PM
  #27
lou4gehrig
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Originally Posted by Rated R Superstar View Post
That's what I was about to post. The neutral zone is key, I think if our players buy into the system and apply it well, other teams will have all the difficulty in this world to cross our blue line. In offense the transition game will be so fast: Less than 3 seconds in the neutral zone.
I think we have a perfect team for this now. Veteran defense and quick counterattacking forwards.

During his time in Ottawa his teams ended up being around the top 3 for shots on goals against at around 25 in 2004.

In Florida, they were always near the worst in the league at around 34 shots on goal (which continued without him in 2008-2009).

Our D is closer to what Ottawa had than what Florida had. Should make Price's life alot easier.

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Old
07-13-2009, 04:07 PM
  #28
lou4gehrig
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
I don't think Martin (or any other NHL coach, for that matter) has a single system that he carries around for his entire career in a briefcase and use with whatever team he coaches. It's all dependent on the players he's given and the make up of the team.

With the team we have, you can bet on an up tempo, puck possession and quick transition system.
This is true. The thing I like is Martin has 1100 regular season and 95 post season games experience. Carbo has 230 regular season and 12 post season games. I think once they figured Carbo out, he didn't know how to adjust.

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07-13-2009, 04:15 PM
  #29
CaptCrunch
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Originally Posted by Jack Black View Post
I don't believe F1 and F2 will go that low. Mind you I would love to see that but I don't expect it to happen. Of course Jacques would like to employ a "Red Wing" type system... they have one of the better puck possession system in the league. But when the rubber meet the cement I fully expect Jacques to revert to his defensive roots, explaining that "puck possession starts with good defense".

With Jacques, I believe we are looking at a 1-4 forecheck. 1 player (F1) chasing and the 4 other taking their lanes. It will look more like this:


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07-13-2009, 04:19 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by CaptCrunch View Post
I don't believe F1 and F2 will go that low. Mind you I would love to see that but I don't expect it to happen. Of course Jacques would like to employ a "Red Wing" type system... they have one of the better puck possession system in the league. But when the rubber meet the cement I fully expect Jacques to revert to his defensive roots, explaining that "puck possession starts with good defense".

With Jacques, I believe we are looking at a 1-4 forecheck. 1 player (F1) chasing and the 4 other taking their lanes. It will look more like this:

That W sucks.. Why didn't he pass to the 2nd W? Trade him

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07-13-2009, 04:22 PM
  #31
Chris Cutter
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It was Kovalev

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07-13-2009, 04:24 PM
  #32
Em Ancien
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Offensively, looks like we'll be playing a 1-2-2 forecheck. This is meant to play stifling defense in the neutral zone and force the opposing team to dump in the zone and limit odd-man rushes, while having some puck pressure and force turnovers where our 2 swing forwards can pick up loose pucks in the offensive zone.

On D, I have no idea if we're going with a zone D, man-to-man or a mix of both. I know Carbo wanted a soft zone where we limit opportunities and keep everyone on the outside, but it definately didn't work because everyone had to cover a lot of ice.

Anyways, we're playing a puck-possession style instead of a puck-pressure style. So the added speed and better puck movers on the back end should allow us to burn slower defenses.

I also have no idea how much liberty our D-men will have in rushing the puck and pinching.

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Old
07-13-2009, 04:28 PM
  #33
lou4gehrig
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Originally Posted by CaptCrunch View Post
OMG. The red "W" really is Kovalev....

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07-13-2009, 04:53 PM
  #34
Habanero514
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Martin's system :

Good puck moving
Good defensively

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Old
07-13-2009, 05:14 PM
  #35
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From what I hear, Martin will be teaching the "Score more goals than you give up" system.

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Old
07-13-2009, 05:20 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by CTHabsfan View Post
From what I hear, Martin will be teaching the "Score more goals than you give up" system.
This:
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Old
07-13-2009, 07:13 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated R Superstar View Post
This:
I see a kitty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptCrunch View Post


In the neutral zone, the right d would be where the right wing is and the left d would be where the right d had fallen to and the right winger would be where the left d had stepped up.

Basically you get a small speed guy to forecheck and if they get by him, then they have 4 players lined up to get by with the speed guy coming back hounding them from behind to get the puck and a potential breakaway. If the player caring the puck makes a pass and it's intercepted, then the forward coming back will get a breakaway pass. So, the teams have to dump the puck in and chase it.

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Old
07-13-2009, 07:13 PM
  #38
Domenic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
Where's the part where the green "W" (attempts to) skate through the red "W", "C", "D" and "D" and then doesn't pass it to the wide open green "W" and instead shoots or loses the puck?
It signed a 2 yr./$10 mil. contract in Ottawa.

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Old
07-13-2009, 07:17 PM
  #39
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When we want to talk about Martin's system I think we are putting too much emphsis on which forechecks and D-zone coverage he will use. Most of these systems are pretty basic and all the NHL coaches know all of them.

The key for Martin is that he is a stickler for details and demands that his players be responsible defensively. What I mean by this is that he wants to play a puck possession game, so the forecheck is not the key to his system. The important thing is what you do once you turn the puck over.

The key to being good defensively is "commitment". If you watch the Red Wings play, you will notice how hard they backcheck. They always have four guys above the puck. You can't do this when you have possession of the puck. The thing that make them better than other teams is the quickness at which they transition from offense to defense and how hard they work to outnumber their opponents defensively after a turnover.

This comes from a tough coach that makes his players accountable and from the leadership that comes from the players. We always hear how Detroit's best offensive players are their most reliable defensive players. That to me is good leadership. Doing what the coach asks and leading by example. And when other players don't do what they are supposed to, they hear from the leaders.

Not many teams are fortunate to have this kind of leadership, skills and good coaching. Hopefully, our new players will show the commitment to defense and the leadership to show the way.

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07-13-2009, 07:26 PM
  #40
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My main beef with the past few seasons was how it easy it was for forwards to cross our blueline!!! Our D would just back up and let them walk in and when they were in far enough, they were a perfect pylon to screen Price. If Martin's system includes standing up at the blueline I will be really happy!

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Old
07-13-2009, 07:55 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by MaxLapierre View Post


Someone gets it!

Quick recap:

07-08: Habs had a passive 2-1-2 forecheck which means the centerman (the '1') was deeper defensively than the wingers on the forecheck. Basically it was a quick dump and chase toward the sideboards.

08-09: Habs started with a 2-1-2 forecheck but injuries and a general lack of cohesion made Carbo revert to a 3-2 dump and chase which never seemed to work. Our players weren't strong or passionate enough to get the puck and it would squeeze out from behind them.

09-10: Habs will presumably start with a puck-possession team a la Detroit. Keep the puck with the dmen, wait the right opportunity, make a quick pass to a winger, create the 3 on 2/2 on 1 chance and score. When they have the puck they will come and we will have a 1-4 clog in the neutral zone (also known affectionately as the trap because we'll have four players "waiting" for the opposing team to mess up and fall into our trap) in which we'll usually make them cough up the puck and make the quick transition into offense.

edit: Our forecheck will be interesting to watch. I don't know what to expect given the fact that LWL (like the above GIF) requires competent and strong centermen and Plekanec is neither strong nor competent enough without someone by the name Kovalev on his wing.

It will get brutal and boring if we're facing Florida, New Jersey (with Lemaire!) or Toronto (only d-first teams that came to mind).

It will rock and work well against the Islanders, Washington, Tampa Bay, Atlanta and basically any team with a weak d-corps/system.
what about the two games where Kovalev was benched or whatever, Plekanecs and Kostitsyn were scoring and playing amazing, i understand last year he was a wreck, and that Kovalev had a big part in the year before, but i think it will do Plekanec some good not to be playing on the same line as Kovalev, this year things should really be interesting

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Old
07-13-2009, 08:34 PM
  #42
la25ecoupe
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Remember how good AK was away from AK?

Remember Patches - Plek - AK?

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07-14-2009, 12:39 AM
  #43
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the bottom line is, he took over a Sens team that was the laughing stock of the NHL and turned them into perennial Presidents Trophy challengers, the only reason they didn't get far in the playoffs is because they had no goaltender. Martin is a good coach period. But if you ask HFboards, everyone on the Canadiens forums think they are a better coach than Martin and a better GM than Bob Gainey. This isn't the place to be asking for opinions.

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07-14-2009, 12:44 AM
  #44
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Old
07-14-2009, 12:48 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by la25ecoupe View Post
Remember how good AK was away from AK?

Remember Patches - Plek - AK?
Remember Alf ? Well, he's back! In pog form

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Old
07-14-2009, 01:21 AM
  #46
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Lack of transition and possession is the thing I hated most from this year's system. It's one of the reasons why I'm happy Komisarek aka mister Icing left. Did he suck under forecheck or what? I personally think Gorges is a more effective defenseman overall than Komisarek.

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Old
07-14-2009, 02:33 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by MikeCammalleri View Post
His system is close the the trap. The Detroit Redwings run the same style that JM would like to run.

Defense first, and then its all about the counter attack. That is why the Defense we have now is good at first passes, because the counter attacks have to be quick and skillfull. Lucky for us we have one of the best first passers in the league (markov) and no really retarded offensive players. Even Hal Gill has a good first pass.

Once the defense counters with the puck, JM would use our quick players to make a quick play using their skill and speed and stay in the O zone until we score or turn over the puck. It is all about the trap (the method to steal the puck from the opposing team and quickly counter to throw the other team off guard).

Gainey obviously asked JM about each player he signed this off season because all the players look perfect for this system in Cammy, Gio, Gomez, Spacek, Gill, Moen, and Mara. I can't wait for this season!!
Good post friend. Difference between Carbo and Martin is that Martin is a proven coach and he's a very good coach. His system is a system that wins, just like in Detroit. Its as good as the players around it. If the players buy in, Martin looks like a genius.

The effectiveness depends a lot on Carey price to move the puck as well. He has the potential to do this well, but still needs work. I'm not worried about Martin or our new signings. They will all do just fine in Martin's hand picked team. I'm worried about Pricey. We go as far as he does.

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Old
07-14-2009, 07:42 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Jellybeans View Post
Martin's system :

Good puck moving
Good defensively
Those are more the result of a system...

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Old
07-14-2009, 08:03 AM
  #49
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Remember Alf ? Well, he's back! In pog form
What a 5$ soul can get you these days...

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Old
07-14-2009, 03:25 PM
  #50
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Good thread guys.

We are obviously a puck possession/counterattack team that will trap imo, like you guys say below (will probably vary from 2-1-2 to 1-2-2, depending on the situation: road game, late in game, injuries, etc.). Signing puck moving D and speedy, but small, forwards seems to indicate that much.

Is it a contradiction in terms to be both puck possession AND counterattack/trap? I think the Wings use all those tactics. And they sometimes trap high in the neutral zone as well.

We'll probably still have the defensemen play zone in our own end because the centers are still small and will need help in the middle (if the D are playing man-to-man, that will cause mismatches at the net). However, I think part of the reason our D played zone was because they didn't skate or move the puck all that well in previous years and that has changed.

Games against tougher opponents on the road might be a bit boring, but we should win some games. If we are at home, we can put the Gomez line out there and they'll be flying.


Last edited by tinyzombies: 07-14-2009 at 03:47 PM.
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