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Lemaire returning as Devils Head Coach

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Old
07-13-2009, 03:18 PM
  #51
Stepan Razor
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Originally Posted by CanadianDevil View Post
would you like to compare Rangers sucess with that of the devils? seriously how can some of you guys even support Staher and his hair raising trades and acquisitions year after year then turn around to one of the most respected and sucesful GM's in the NHL today and say he is a failure? it just confuses me how such leaps of logic are made. no we havent made big trades, we havent had to, we build our team and develop them.... you guys buy a new one each July.
This isn't a thread comparing the Rangers' success to the Devils' success, it's one that illustrates the fact that this is a pretty strange move by an accomplished general manager.

Stop being so defensive...oh wait

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07-13-2009, 03:19 PM
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Your statement is inaccurate. The Devils never counted on the opinions of their numerous coaches when it came to the draft. It's always comes down to Conte and Lamoriello.
Absolutely correct.

However, not having a coach on July 1st is a MAJOR detriment in attracting free agents (forgetting that most free agent signings don't workout as planned).

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07-13-2009, 03:19 PM
  #53
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one thing i've learned watching this rivalry for all my life never count the Devils out. they always have a way of exceeding people's expectations. i hate this move purely cause imo it's makes our cross tunnel rivals better. i don't think for a second players like Parise will suffer at all, if anything they'll become better players. this is a classic Devils move that always seems to pay off big time for them...

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07-13-2009, 03:27 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by frozenrubber View Post
Lou has been leaning on his "remember the 90s" bent quite a bit recently. After re-adding Rolston and Holik, even Shanahan, now Lemaire....maybe Tom Chorske can come out of retirement.

On the trade front, Lou has accomplished anything of note since '02. Is it lack of effort, not having pieces valued by other clubs, unreasonable demands, or most likely not liking the risk on the trade market. Regardless, he's done very little in trades going on 7 years since the Niewy/Langenbruner trade.
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Originally Posted by BringUpBobby View Post
This isn't a thread comparing the Rangers' success to the Devils' success, it's one that illustrates the fact that this is a pretty strange move by an accomplished general manager.
i didnt make the comparison. thanks for trying, better luck next time.

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07-13-2009, 03:29 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by RangersFan View Post
one thing i've learned watching this rivalry for all my life never count the Devils out. they always have a way of exceeding people's expectations. i hate this move purely cause imo it's makes our cross tunnel rivals better. i don't think for a second players like Parise will suffer at all, if anything they'll become better players. this is a classic Devils move that always seems to pay off big time for them...
Gotta agree...I think lemaire realizes the shift the devils have made in the way they play and will accept and roll with the punches, in his previous coaching jobs both the teams hadnt had any real success and he took them extremely far in the playoffs by realizing the assets they had and utilizing them, its not like the devils had that much gamebreaking offensive talent on their teams, in fact one could make the argument that many of those players outperformed their natural ability so I think the rap that lemaire is pure defense isnt viable because in nj he had 3 elite dmen and average forwards and in minnesota he had a relatively average team that he made competitive...right now the situation in nj is slightly above average forward group that is still developing and average d, so hopefully he'll play to our strength and focus on the offense

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07-13-2009, 03:46 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by frozenrubber View Post
Absolutely correct.

However, not having a coach on July 1st is a MAJOR detriment in attracting free agents (forgetting that most free agent signings don't workout as planned).
I was replying to poster who brought up the draft. But, really, what UFA, was worth signing that was somewhat affordable? I didn't see any and I'm glad Lou stood pat this season. The Devils need to get younger and if they aren't good enough, so be it. And they may finally be in a good position to draft a top prospect and next season will have enough room to re-sign Paul Martin and maybe work on extension for Parise. Plus, Lou can still try to swing a trade, there are a few teams in cap trouble.

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07-13-2009, 03:47 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by BigCanada77 View Post
Most of us aren't trying to compare successes, believe me. The point of most of the posts in this thread are that this comes as a surpise and a complete 180 degree turn from what seemed like the Devs' new strategy and style of play. The fact that this comes after the draft and the bulk of free agency moves around the league seems to make it look like Lemaire was a last resort. Are you not surprised? Are you happy with this move? Those questions aren't said with any secondary motive or sarcastic stab, but truly questions of mere opinion, just because most of us feel surprised here and happy because we some feel we can compete against one of our rivals better now if they employ a different style.

I really dont want to speak for the whole board, but I also dont want this turning into a pissing match between rival fans.
fair enough lets not turn this into a pissing match as you said. im THRILLED with this move. sure i loved Sutter but Lemaire is an amzing coach. is he defensive minded, of course he is but thats whats special, he is the BEST defensive coach in the NHL right now. we already have Marty holding down the fort, cant really improve him with an off ice move (already have Caron and will until the day Marty ends his career). we also already have one of the most consistent and productive top lines in the NHL (would i dare say one of the top 5 lines last year? yes i would). then lets look our second line. last year we had Elias-Zubrus-Gionta which did exceptionally well until Zubrus cooled off... even then Elias had a career year. this year its likely to be made up of Elias-???-Rolston, and you have to remember that Rolston had his best offensive years playing for lemaire in a defensive system os he is due for a huge bounceback. and lastly we have one of the best defesive groups in the NHL. just dont call any of them #1 d man. maybe Martin could be a #2. we are going to see HUGE improvements in our D this year and i have no problem having us use or 'defense by committee' style.

there is only upside to this if you ask me. will Parise's and Zajac and even Langs numbers go down a bit? sure. will we see a rise in numbers from players like Zubrus, Rolston and our defensemen like Oduya to counter balance to some degree. probally.... even if it is Trap hockey.

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07-13-2009, 03:50 PM
  #58
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Never under estimated the Devils

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07-13-2009, 04:00 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianDevil View Post
fair enough lets not turn this into a pissing match as you said. im THRILLED with this move. sure i loved Sutter but Lemaire is an amzing coach. is he defensive minded, of course he is but thats whats special, he is the BEST defensive coach in the NHL right now. we already have Marty holding down the fort, cant really improve him with an off ice move (already have Caron and will until the day Marty ends his career). we also already have one of the most consistent and productive top lines in the NHL (would i dare say one of the top 5 lines last year? yes i would). then lets look our second line. last year we had Elias-Zubrus-Gionta which did exceptionally well until Zubrus cooled off... even then Elias had a career year. this year its likely to be made up of Elias-???-Rolston, and you have to remember that Rolston had his best offensive years playing for lemaire in a defensive system os he is due for a huge bounceback. and lastly we have one of the best defesive groups in the NHL. just dont call any of them #1 d man. maybe Martin could be a #2. we are going to see HUGE improvements in our D this year and i have no problem having us use or 'defense by committee' style.

there is only upside to this if you ask me. will Parise's and Zajac and even Langs numbers go down a bit? sure. will we see a rise in numbers from players like Zubrus, Rolston and our defensemen like Oduya to counter balance to some degree. probally.... even if it is Trap hockey.
Hmm...that was the opposite of what I thought NJ fans would feel, but you make some good points...and as others have said, sensible Ranger fans would never count out the Devils. Do other Dev fans on your board feel the same way, or are alot panicing and feeling like some of us are??

I def expect your 2/3 line players to improve comparably to the likes of the top line, but I felt that maybe players like Parise and Zajac might have a hard time learning and adjusting to the new (or is it old lol) style... I have no doubt that you guys will be successful this year, but it seemed like you were at the brink of an offensive explosion, not only in Devils terms, but other teams were now weary of your offense first!!

You're thrilled with the move, are you shocked though?? Did anyone see this coming??

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Old
07-13-2009, 04:03 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCanada77 View Post
Hmm...that was the opposite of what I thought NJ fans would feel, but you make some good points...and as others have said, sensible Ranger fans would never count out the Devils. Do other Dev fans on your board feel the same way, or are alot panicing and feeling like some of us are??

I def expect your 2/3 line players to improve comparably to the likes of the top line, but I felt that maybe players like Parise and Zajac might have a hard time learning and adjusting to the new (or is it old lol) style... I have no doubt that you guys will be successful this year, but it seemed like you were at the brink of an offensive explosion, not only in Devils terms, but other teams were now weary of your offense first!!

You're thrilled with the move, are you shocked though?? Did anyone see this coming??
Pretty much all of us saw it coming.

I love the move personally. All these doomsdayers are quiet laughable to be honest.
JL Knows what he has to work with here he won't let that rot away.

I'm excited as all devils fans should be.

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07-13-2009, 04:08 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianDevil View Post
fair enough lets not turn this into a pissing match as you said. im THRILLED with this move. sure i loved Sutter but Lemaire is an amzing coach. is he defensive minded, of course he is but thats whats special, he is the BEST defensive coach in the NHL right now. we already have Marty holding down the fort, cant really improve him with an off ice move (already have Caron and will until the day Marty ends his career). we also already have one of the most consistent and productive top lines in the NHL (would i dare say one of the top 5 lines last year? yes i would). then lets look our second line. last year we had Elias-Zubrus-Gionta which did exceptionally well until Zubrus cooled off... even then Elias had a career year. this year its likely to be made up of Elias-???-Rolston, and you have to remember that Rolston had his best offensive years playing for lemaire in a defensive system os he is due for a huge bounceback. and lastly we have one of the best defesive groups in the NHL. just dont call any of them #1 d man. maybe Martin could be a #2. we are going to see HUGE improvements in our D this year and i have no problem having us use or 'defense by committee' style.

there is only upside to this if you ask me. will Parise's and Zajac and even Langs numbers go down a bit? sure. will we see a rise in numbers from players like Zubrus, Rolston and our defensemen like Oduya to counter balance to some degree. probally.... even if it is Trap hockey.

I beg to differ with at least several of the above statements, and this is coming from someone who always had grudging respect for the Devils.

First of all, while your first line was great last season, I don't think it will be anywhere near as good in Lemaire's system. Parise will still be a PPG stud, but expect to see a significant drop off for everyone else.

Second of all, what could possibly possess you to claim that your defensive core is one of the league's best? They are solid, sure, but their place is nowhere near top 10. I wouldn't even say they're top 15. They play a sound system, which minimizes glaring errors, but there's a significant lack of talent back there. I'm not sure where these "improvements" you speak of will come from -- is anybody coming up? Cause it's not like you signed or traded for anyone.

Then, of course, there's the 37 year old Marty. I know we say that every year, but it is beginning to show. Marty let in plenty of softies last year, culminating in that embarrassment of a game 7.

I think that you guys will have another good season and finish top 6 in the East. And, maybe most importantly, your team will be boring to watch, much like Renney's Rangers were last year.

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Old
07-13-2009, 04:14 PM
  #62
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A familiar face for NJ obviously. He doesn't have the same horses he had back in the mid-90s but the team is a perennial division winner and have about as good a chance as any team in the Atlantic of winning it again. Anyway, in the end the ultimate goal of any move like this is more postseason success rather than a division title, so if Jacques can help guide the Devils out of the first round and beyond then Lou looks like a genius (again).

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07-13-2009, 04:17 PM
  #63
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Again? Did he get a new system also?

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07-13-2009, 04:29 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by jniklast View Post
there was some awesome goaltending on both sides though
I think Richter made 23 or 24 saves in that game, not very much offense.

I don't think this is a bad move or a good move, if this move is meant to play to the Devils Strengths, which would be Brodeur as the back bone of the team & not letting him see a ton of shots, they are gonna look like the Rangers under Renney with 6 men back & alot of dump & chase, it's gonna be boring.

This move is to counter the down the thoart game of The Penquins & hopefully the Rangers, Philly will be a physical team.

It's not lke the Devils aren't a playoff team now, how far they go is the question.

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07-13-2009, 04:54 PM
  #65
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Your statement is inaccurate. The Devils never counted on the opinions of their numerous coaches when it came to the draft. It's always comes down to Conte and Lamoriello.
No kidding. Obviously the coaches acquiesce to the GM and scouting staff around draft time. But to say coaches are completely left out of the equation is hogwash, unless you can prove other wise. It's common knowledge that GM's like to have a head coach in place before the draft, especially if they have two months to do it, which is the point I was making.

Nevertheless, with a brand new arena and marginal season ticket sales, I find it odd that the Devils at first seemed content with the status quo, and hiring Lemaire IMHO is a step backwards.

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07-13-2009, 05:11 PM
  #66
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lou lams is making his moves this year based on the assumption that the cap is going down next year...thats an interesting way to do business....i mean that team is not going to compete for a cup as constructed, and wont for a long long time. their prospect pool is pathetic..HF has them listed at 28th (before this years draft) with the Isles and wild below them...well with Tavares that shoots the isles up into the top 10, and the devils didnt have that great of a draft (though the josefson pick was a good one)...id still rank them at around 28th or 29th in the NHL...

so you have a GM, who is losing key players, who refuses to go into free agency to get players to replace them, who hasnt made a truly significant trade in about 5-7 years, and who has few prospects with which to bring in to replace these players....

right now the devils are going to live and die by their system. It will make them win more games than they will lose, but once they get into the playoffs and play against clubs with superior firepower and talent, they are going to be overwhelmed...and will be like that for a long time to come.

make no mistake about it, unless the Devils come out of nowhere and trade for Heatley, they are going to be in a helluva predicament for the future.

to contrast, the Rangers go and get free agents, make trades, and have the 12th best prospect pool according to HF, and thats not including the graduates of Dubinsky, Callahan, Staal, Korpi and Girardi.
i know people love to take a dump on sather, but he isnt afraid to make moves..and honestly, i really admire that about him..he isnt scared to shake things up, to try new things, to get younger, to build with youth, to augment with free agents, to do whatever it takes to win...has he been all that successful as a Rangers GM? no, not at all, but hes trying, and right now, i like the way the rangers are constructed for this year and for the future a HELL of a lot more than the way the devils are constructed.

with that said I think Lemaire is a good choice when you consider the sheer lack of talent that plagues the Devils. He'll get them to the playoffs year after year after year... but, imho, that's as far as it goes.

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07-13-2009, 05:51 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by The Thomas J. View Post
I think Richter made 23 or 24 saves in that game, not very much offense.

I don't think this is a bad move or a good move, if this move is meant to play to the Devils Strengths, which would be Brodeur as the back bone of the team & not letting him see a ton of shots, they are gonna look like the Rangers under Renney with 6 men back & alot of dump & chase, it's gonna be boring.

This move is to counter the down the thoart game of The Penquins & hopefully the Rangers, Philly will be a physical team.

It's not lke the Devils aren't a playoff team now, how far they go is the question.
the game in question was devils - sabres, with brodeur, and especially hasek playing unbelievable

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07-13-2009, 05:55 PM
  #68
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Never under estimated the Devils
except in the playoffs

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07-13-2009, 06:51 PM
  #69
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I really don't think Sutter wanted to change goalies when Marty came back last season....
That's folly, of course, and if it were the truth, reason enough to let him walk back to Calgary.

If Lundqvist were out for four month last season and Valiquette pulled a Clemmenson, show me one genius who would have suggested that Tortarella stay with Big Valley once your #1 was back healthy and ready to go.

***

NJD will be highly competitive for the first 82 games. However, they will come up short in the post-season, as currently constituted, under any coach and any system. For aside from Parise, there is not a gamebreaker, an elite differencemaker, on the roster, either up front or on the backline, as in their Cup days. You need that come springtime.


Last edited by Trottier: 07-13-2009 at 06:56 PM.
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07-13-2009, 07:07 PM
  #70
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maybe Jacques will "open it up" a bit..........but regardless.....the '94 ECF were still the best playoffs I remember, trap or no trap.

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07-13-2009, 09:00 PM
  #71
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maybe Jacques will "open it up" a bit..........but regardless.....the '94 ECF were still the best playoffs I remember, trap or no trap.
he said he would in the press conference. You have to believe he would at least try, but no matter what he said, you cant ignore that his teams have pretty much been considered offensively inept.

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07-13-2009, 09:25 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by frozenrubber View Post

Lou hasn't pursued the trade market in years. A few mid-round picks or youngsters, and late season additions (and no, I don't consider Bruce Salvador a major trade), but he hasn't been willing or able to make a significant trade in years. If it's a lull, so be it. But a GM has to do more than draft and wait.
This is just what you're used to as a Ranger fan, the GM opening the wallet every season for whoever "XYZ free agent" happens to be the biggest free agent name available, regardless of whether or not he makes sense for the team. Which is how I knew somehow Gaborik would wind up with the Rangers even when that prediction didnt make any sense at the time.
The cap is going DOWN next year probably $3M - $4M dollars. That. Is. Huge. You can say all you want that Lou had a "bad" offseason (which isnt over yet, by the way), but my prediction is that doing nothing, was the best thing the Devils could have done.

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07-13-2009, 09:34 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
This is just what you're used to as a Ranger fan, the GM opening the wallet every season for whoever "XYZ free agent" happens to be the biggest free agent name available, regardless of whether or not he makes sense for the team. Which is how I knew somehow Gaborik would wind up with the Rangers even when that prediction didnt make any sense at the time.
The cap is going DOWN next year probably $3M - $4M dollars. That. Is. Huge. You can say all you want that Lou had a "bad" offseason (which isnt over yet, by the way), but my prediction is that doing nothing, was the best thing the Devils could have done.
Oh, cool, you can see the future? We were just discussing an article a day ago that speculated that the cap would hardly decrease, IF AT ALL. Fact is, NO ONE knows with any certainty what the cap will do.

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07-13-2009, 09:53 PM
  #74
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Oh, cool, you can see the future? We were just discussing an article a day ago that speculated that the cap would hardly decrease, IF AT ALL.
I do not know the article you speak of, but given the domestic economy, the poor outlook going forward, the hit the canadian dollar has taken recently, expectations for inflation, unemployment encroaching 10% in the United States, and a host of other reasons, I do not see how anyone could reasonably expect the cap to not go down in 2010/11.

So can I see the future, you ask?

No. But what I can do is read the writing on the wall.

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07-13-2009, 10:10 PM
  #75
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I do not know the article you speak of, but given the domestic economy, the poor outlook going forward, the hit the canadian dollar has taken recently, expectations for inflation, unemployment encroaching 10% in the United States, and a host of other reasons, I do not see how anyone could reasonably expect the cap to not go down in 2010/11.

So can I see the future, you ask?

No. But what I can do is read the writing on the wall.
People said the exact same thing during last season.

BTW, he's the excerpt from the article (h/t to RB):

AND FINALLY: No one can accurately predict next season's salary cap, although the early indications are that the drop may not be as dramatic as some had feared. For much of this past season, the expectation was that the cap would remain flat for 2009-10 and then drop some estimates put it as high as 20 per cent for next year. Naturally, that would put most teams, operating at or near the cap for the coming year, at a competitive disadvantage, and forced into making all sorts of unpalatable choices next season, if that were to occur.
Now, however, there is a new emerging sense that the NHL has been spared the larger effects of the slumping economy and that next year's cap if it shrinks at all won't be nearly as bad as originally thought. The early indications of how the economy might affect the NHL have been mostly positive. Playoff ticket sales were good and season-ticket sales are reportedly going well in most of the traditional markets.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1214023/

Is this article the gospel? Who the hell knows. But to attempt to state with certainty that the cap will go down $4M next season is a reach.

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