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Important Decision for Bob: Pleks Arbitration

View Poll Results: Do you want Pleky back?
Si 45 72.58%
No 17 27.42%
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07-14-2009, 08:52 AM
  #1
GoldenForum
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Important Decision for Bob: Pleks Arbitration

Bob has remade the team-- you might like it or not, but he has been very proactive. To me he has one big issue remaining: he needs to decide before Pleks goes to arbitration if this guy is a core piece of the team going forward or if he's just a plug until something opens up in a year or two.

...I was listening to Steve Philips on ESPN radio (former GM of the Mets) a year or two ago and he was saying that going to salary arbitration with a player was something he always tried to avoid. Basically in arbitration you as management are arguing why the guy is not so good, etc to keep his salary low...and then after arbitration you have to flip the switch and motivate the guy to do well and praise him up and down. Psychologically difficult and player does not feel particularly wanted (which matters with these current pro players).

Bob has seen enough of Pleks to know his strengths and weaknesses. Time for him to make a decision. Sign Pleks to a 3 year deal and give him a boost of confidence or let him go to arbitration and you've basically determined that he really can't hack it with the big boys. IMO, Pleks is talented and young and just entering his prime-- I lock him up Bob. Be proactive once more.

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07-14-2009, 08:55 AM
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Pleks is so down on himself all the time that Gainey might not even have to open his mouth at arbitration.

Anyway just because a player files for arbitration doesn't mean it'll happen. Ryder filed for arbitration like three years straight and never had a single hearing.

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07-14-2009, 08:57 AM
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Tomas,even you mentioned you played like a little girl!!!! Case closed!

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07-14-2009, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Tomas,even you mentioned you played like a little girl!!!! Case closed!
girls always cost more

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07-14-2009, 09:15 AM
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Problem is if we ink him to a 3+ years contract, he'll ask for Andrei Kostitsyn kind of money. We don't know if he's worth that right now because of his last season. We are not in a situation where we can overpay our RFA...Gainey has to be wise with those signings so that's why he's trying to sign Plekanec for not too much because nobody is sure of his real value...

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07-14-2009, 09:27 AM
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It's a tough call.

With only 2 other guys slated for UFA next summer, signing Pleks for a year seems like a sound strategy. You give Maxwell another year to develop on the farm and see where he's at next spring. You give Plekanec a chance to show which player he really is and make a decision on whether to re-sign him or let him walk. You also keep your options open for the uncertain salary cap in 2010-11.

OTOH, if he has a great season 07-08 style...then you pretty much can't re-sign him as he'll cost too much or if you do clear cap room to re-sign him, you'll be scared that it was a one year wonder.

Sign him for 2-3 years and he could respond by feeling wanted and being productive. Or he could suck like he did in 08-09 and it becomes a tough contract to move for decent value.

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07-14-2009, 09:29 AM
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2 years/ 2.25 million per season should be about right

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07-14-2009, 09:38 AM
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2 years/ 2.25 million per season should be about right
He won't accept Higgins's salary he got for only one season and adding an extra year to Plek's, especially since he has produced more than Higgy over the last 3 seasons.

If you ask for 2 seasons, lay at least 2,5 per on the table. Around 3 mil per for 3 seasons. If he goes to arbitration, I think he will get 2,5.

But here's the weird thing, I always thought arbitration decision was for a one year deal only, but Lamoriello said last week (regarding Zajac) that whatever the arbitration amount will be, he will be able to chose that over one or two seasons. Is that the rule or an understanding between him and Zajac? If its the rule (which I thought was one season only) then we should take the arbitration amount, if its not too much higher than 2,5 per, and put it on a two year contract.

I like Marc the Habs fan's analysis. I would go for the two year contract for Pleks. Give Maxwell two full years to come to term.

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07-14-2009, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
He won't accept Higgins's salary he got for only one season and adding an extra year to Plek's, especially since he has produced more than Higgy over the last 3 seasons.

If you ask for 2 seasons, lay at least 2,5 per on the table. Around 3 mil per for 3 seasons. If he goes to arbitration, I think he will get 2,5.

But here's the weird thing, I always thought arbitration decision was for a one year deal only, but Lamoriello said last week (regarding Zajac) that whatever the arbitration amount will be, he will be able to chose that over one or two seasons. Is that the rule or an understanding between him and Zajac? If its the rule (which I thought was one season only) then we should take the arbitration amount, if its not too much higher than 2,5 per, and put it on a two year contract.

I like Marc the Habs fan's analysis. I would go for the two year contract for Pleks. Give Maxwell two full years to come to term.
It is a rule. The team as the option of going with a 1y or 2y contract.

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07-14-2009, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
Problem is if we ink him to a 3+ years contract, he'll ask for Andrei Kostitsyn kind of money. We don't know if he's worth that right now because of his last season. We are not in a situation where we can overpay our RFA...Gainey has to be wise with those signings so that's why he's trying to sign Plekanec for not too much because nobody is sure of his real value...
I don't think Pleks is worth (nor would he expect to earn) AK46 money. Also, if Gainey fielded Pleks a 3-year deal that would allow the $ amount of the deal to be a little less. I think Gainey can resign Pleks to a 3 year 6.5 mil deal. At that price, if he underperforms and we don't end up wanting Pleks in a year or two, he can be easily traded.

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07-14-2009, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by HabsAtak View Post
It is a rule. The team as the option of going with a 1y or 2y contract.
Cool, thanks. Then I would take Pleks on the arbitration amount for two seasons. 2,5 per for 2 years seems reasonable.

Now, BG should sign Price to an extention RIGHT away before he gets into another bubble and costs us 1 or 2 mil per more on his next contract. So we don't get into cap problems next year, as it is the only year where I foresee some possible cap problems.

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07-14-2009, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Tomas,even you mentioned you played like a little girl!!!! Case closed!

I always find it funny how people cannot move on...
Yeah, he said that, but does anyone realize that "the little girl" still managed to score 9 points in 12 games that year? That's as many as Pavel Datsyuk had this year!
It's also more than Datsyuk had in his first 25 games despite playing with much better players.

What's more shocking is that we never seem to learn from our mistakes...
  1. Overhype player
  2. Berate player when he doesn't live up to impossible expectations
  3. Demand that player be traded
  4. Wine like baby when player does well somewhere else

Could we simply just give him a chance to bounce back from ONE (yes 1) bad season?

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07-14-2009, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by GoldenForum View Post
I don't think Pleks is worth (nor would he expect to earn) AK46 money. Also, if Gainey fielded Pleks a 3-year deal that would allow the $ amount of the deal to be a little less. I think Gainey can resign Pleks to a 3 year 6.5 mil deal. At that price, if he underperforms and we don't end up wanting Pleks in a year or two, he can be easily traded.
Dude, sorry but you're dreaming. That wouldn't even give him 2,25 per. And he's definitely gonna get more than that on arbitration. You underate the value of his 69 points season in the eyes of the arbitration agent. Now consider you're asking for 3 seasons, you'd have to pony up around 2,5/3 mil per. That's 7,5/9 mil for three years (at least).

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07-14-2009, 10:14 AM
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Dude, sorry but you're dreaming. That wouldn't even give him 2,25 per. And he's definitely gonna get more than that on arbitration. You underate the value of his 69 points season in the eyes of the arbitration agent. Now consider you're asking for 3 seasons, you'd have to pony up around 2,5/3 mil per. That's 7,5/9 mil for three years (at least).
Dude, he certainly didn't get 69 points last season-- he's not getting 3 mil through any arbitration. At most he gets 2.5 mil (at most). By offering him a 3 year deal at 6.5, that is 2 mil, 2 mil, 2.5 mil-- a good increase from last year and some security/longevity. Remember he is an RFA so he can't get the moon.

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07-14-2009, 10:32 AM
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Dude, he certainly didn't get 69 points last season-- he's not getting 3 mil through any arbitration. At most he gets 2.5 mil (at most). By offering him a 3 year deal at 6.5, that is 2 mil, 2 mil, 2.5 mil-- a good increase from last year and some security/longevity. Remember he is an RFA so he can't get the moon.
What you are forgetting is that the qualifying offer amount is very close to 2 mil per for ONE season. That's why Pleks asked for arbitration, because he wants more than that. He's not gonna sign on a 3 year deal that doesn't give him more than what he refused... That's why I think you are dreaming. You need to pony-up at least 2,5/3 mil per to get him on a three year deal.

Anyway, believe what you wish, you'll see the results after he either signs or gets through arbitration. I'm pretty sure he'll get close to what I,ve been saying, and more than 2,2 per season in cap hit.

IN arbitration, they will also look at comparitives. Players like AKost, Higgins and Krejci. If you consider that, you know quite well that he will get anywhere close to 2,5/3 mil.

YOU might not include his 69 points season, but do realize that the arbitration agent is gonna take it into account. They don't look only at the last season played. A season where the WHOLE team underperformed.

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07-14-2009, 10:34 AM
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It is a rule. The team as the option of going with a 1y or 2y contract.
And I am fairly sure the team can NOT ask for it to be a 2 year deal IF the 2nd year would be a UFA year.

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07-14-2009, 10:37 AM
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And I am fairly sure the team can NOT ask for it to be a 2 year deal IF the 2nd year would be a UFA year.
Ah! Ok, that's what I thought... although, aren't RFAs allowed to arbitration when they have only one season left before hitting FA??

Howcome Zajac has two years left and is eligible for arbitration? Lou said he could chose between 1 or 2 years on the contract from the arbitration decision.

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07-14-2009, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Papa_Bear_21 View Post

I always find it funny how people cannot move on...
Yeah, he said that, but does anyone realize that "the little girl" still managed to score 9 points in 12 games that year? That's as many as Pavel Datsyuk had this year!
It's also more than Datsyuk had in his first 25 games despite playing with much better players.

What's more shocking is that we never seem to learn from our mistakes...
  1. Overhype player
  2. Berate player when he doesn't live up to impossible expectations
  3. Demand that player be traded
  4. Wine like baby when player does well somewhere else

Could we simply just give him a chance to bounce back from ONE (yes 1) bad season?

Yes he had a bad season last year but he also had just 1 very good season.Right now we have no clue what's gonna happen next year and the Habs need to make the decision if Tomas is a # 2(can he be that player) we will soon find out

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07-14-2009, 10:46 AM
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Pleks is a smart player. He has low confidence, but he would be worth anything 3 mil and under. I would only sign him for two seasons at 3 mil per because we will not find another center who has the possability to score as many points or goals as he can with that salary. He will bounce back as a second line center, with less responsibilities and with a more defensive minded system. Pleks is a good two way center who had one bad season. Give the man a chance to thrive under the new coach. If things do not work well, we have mediocre center prospects to give that position to for a while.

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07-14-2009, 10:47 AM
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Remember that Grabovski signed for $2.9/Yr, Plekanec's agent is going to use that as a comparable, so I would not be surprised to see an arbitrator give him at least that amount, if not more

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07-14-2009, 11:03 AM
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I think we should expect something in the $2.5 to $3 million range for 2 to 3 years. The way I see it, Gainey will try to deal with the other RFA first (Stewart, S. Kost, etc.) since he has more control over those situations and can pay them less (see Chipchura). When he sees what is left over, then he can negociate with Plekanec. He might have even told Plekanec this is what he is doing and not to worry about the wait.

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07-14-2009, 11:07 AM
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Take him to arbitration.
He will get his ass handed too him and will get a pay decrease (lets hope) or a very minor increase after last seasons performance

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07-14-2009, 11:21 AM
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Take him to arbitration.
He will get his ass handed too him and will get a pay decrease (lets hope) or a very minor increase after last seasons performance
Sure you got the right brother this time?

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07-14-2009, 11:32 AM
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Cool, thanks. Then I would take Pleks on the arbitration amount for two seasons. 2,5 per for 2 years seems reasonable.

Now, BG should sign Price to an extention RIGHT away before he gets into another bubble and costs us 1 or 2 mil per more on his next contract. So we don't get into cap problems next year, as it is the only year where I foresee some possible cap problems.
Problem with giving Price an extention is that I really don't think Carey would be interested in negociating now. He had a bad season, his value is lower. He'll wait, that's for sure. Gainey will have to negociate either during the season or right after we win the cup (or get eliminated ). He can't let him go as a RFA after July 1st because with our cap situation, a team could go all in and we wouldn't be able to match the offer...

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07-14-2009, 11:34 AM
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I would try to deal Plekanec for Pavelski OR Vermette.

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