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Old
07-17-2009, 10:16 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by David_99 View Post
He's 21 and never even been an A, while we're now blessed with stanley cup winning veterans. Why not Andrei K. then? There's better options then the young guns.
I'm not saying I see him as next year's captain. I'm just saying that he could potentially captain a team in 5 years or so. I'm not even saying I would like him to captain a team or that I think he will. I'm just saying it's not such a laughable idea. If I had to choose a young player as the captain it would be Georges.

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Originally Posted by saints96 View Post
because he still is overhyped!!
Right now, he is overhyped by a few, but ridiculed by so many more. I think the fans bipolarity with this kid will eventually run him out of town. It's sad really. He's a good kid, one of the few that seems grounded.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 07-17-2009 at 11:10 AM.
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07-17-2009, 10:20 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by BadKiwi View Post
I'm not saying I see him as next year's captain. I'm just saying that he could potentially captain a team in 5 years or so. I'm not even saying I would like him to captain a team or that I think he will. I'm just saying it's not such a laughable idea. If I had to choose a young player as the captain it would be Georges.
Oh ok, sorry. Yeah you never know in a few years. Maybe once the Gomez, Gionta & Cammy contracts are finished, he'd be an 8 year veteran.

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07-17-2009, 10:35 AM
  #203
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Right now, he is overhyped by a few, but ridiculed by so many more. I think the fans bipolarity with this kid will eventually run him out of town. It's sad really. He's a good kid, one of the few that seems grounded.
i have to disagree with you on that. I dont know if you've ever listend to his post game interviews, or his comments when he was benched. When reporters asked him about his game, he isnt humble and modest like most players and say that he couldn't have done with the help of his teammates, he gloryfies himself probably because hes glorified by the french media. I also remember a time where he was confused and couldnt understand why he got benched basically saying he didnt deserve it. To me that doesnt sound like a kid whos grounded

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07-17-2009, 10:41 AM
  #204
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I also remember a time where he was confused and couldnt understand why he got benched basically saying he didnt deserve it. To me that doesnt sound like a kid whos grounded
Well, blame him for being honest here, because at the time I don't think anyone really knew why the hell he was being benched. Except for Latendresse haters who thought he should be benched as a matter of course. At that point he was really doing rather well. When he came back and everyone raved he wasn't actually more effective -- he just used a slightly more different style, making sure people -- and especially his coach -- actually noticed his hits.

Carbonneau.

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07-17-2009, 10:49 AM
  #205
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Why is a levelheaded kid dedicated to the game, that outhits and outworks most of our forward, that can put the media in his pocket is such a laughable idea of a Captain?
Although this wasn't your intent, I totally agree with what you wrote. He outworks one forward. I wonder which one. Outworking is not something I would easily associate with Lats. Last year he probably outworked Sergei and that's it.

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07-17-2009, 11:10 AM
  #206
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Why is a levelheaded kid dedicated to the game, that outhits and outworks most of our forward, that can put the media in his pocket is such a laughable idea of a Captain? Because he lacks footspeed? Because he was overhyped? Because of his bad musical tastes?
Let him laft. He probably cryed a lot when he learned that Koivu wasn't back with the team.

To add to the arguments you just wrote, Latendresse already has a family. The organization as always been very conservative (giving the C for instance to Turgeon instead of Damphousse for the same reasons).

Honestly, If management wants to give the C to a long term captain, it will give it to Latendresse. If it plans on giving it to a Benedict 16 kind of Captain, then it just needs to give it to the oldest guy on the team... but since there aren't anymore veterants that have been here for some years within the organisation, I expect a season with no captain... and then Latendresse.

Oh and by the way, to me a leader doesn't need a C to act as a leader. The "C" is mainly a marketing tool to give the team an identity... a face.

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07-17-2009, 11:41 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by saints96
i have to disagree with you on that. I dont know if you've ever listend to his post game interviews, or his comments when he was benched. When reporters asked him about his game, he isnt humble and modest like most players and say that he couldn't have done with the help of his teammates, he gloryfies himself probably because hes glorified by the french media. I also remember a time where he was confused and couldnt understand why he got benched basically saying he didnt deserve it. To me that doesnt sound like a kid whos grounded
I also have to disagree. The kid is usually honest about how he sees things. He acknowledged most of his flaws and worked hard to fix them. Most of the time he is trapped by the questions, and usually has a politically correct answer while staying true to his thoughts.

Like when they recently asked him if he'd like to be the next captain. If he said yes: he thinks too highly of himself; no: he doesn't give a **** about the team. He answered pretty well by saying something like any type of players always wishes to become captain, but it his the last of his worries because he highly doubts he could be considered. You don't think he handled the whole Patrick Roy situation pretty well? Do you ever hear of his office antics? From an outsider point of view, he's a mature kid.

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Let him laft. He probably cryed a lot when he learned that Koivu wasn't back with the team.

To add to the arguments you just wrote, Latendresse already has a family. The organization as always been very conservative (giving the C for instance to Turgeon instead of Damphousse for the same reasons).

Honestly, If management wants to give the C to a long term captain, it will give it to Latendresse. If it plans on giving it to a Benedict 16 kind of Captain, then it just needs to give it to the oldest guy on the team... but since there aren't anymore veterants that have been here for some years within the organisation, I expect a season with no captain... and then Latendresse.

Oh and by the way, to me a leader doesn't need a C to act as a leader. The "C" is mainly a marketing tool to give the team an identity... a face.
Hey, I cried when Koivu left. Koivu is my all time favorite player.

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Originally Posted by onice View Post
Although this wasn't your intent, I totally agree with what you wrote. He outworks one forward. I wonder which one. Outworking is not something I would easily associate with Lats. Last year he probably outworked Sergei and that's it.
My personal observation is that his slow foot speed is often misinterpreted by a lack of effort. The fact that we can often see him "out of gaz" indicates a lack of conditioning and that he gave his all. But I could be all wrong and misinterpret the "lack of gaz" with a combination of slow footspeed and laziness.

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07-17-2009, 01:07 PM
  #208
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I agree that I could see Latendresse in some leadership role in the future, but it's still too early for that.

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07-17-2009, 01:14 PM
  #209
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...But I could be all wrong and misinterpret the "lack of gaz" with a combination of slow footspeed and laziness.
He can't move his feet, stick handle and read the play at the same time. He has to choose one of the three, so yes you are misinterpretting his lack of gaz. I think he is both in great shape and puts in his 100%.

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07-17-2009, 01:19 PM
  #210
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He can't move his feet, stick handle and read the play at the same time. He has to choose one of the three, so yes you are misinterpretting his lack of gaz. I think he is both in great shape and puts in his 100%.
Yeah, most of the times he backchecks hard he seems to always find the need to look at his feet. I think that his power skating lessons still doesn't come naturally for him. I believe it's never good when you have to think on how to move, but I'm sure it will all fall into place in time.

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07-17-2009, 02:36 PM
  #211
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I wouldn't complain if he could only turn into another Charlie Simmer.

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07-17-2009, 02:37 PM
  #212
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So let's solve this...

Last year he was on the first line for 6 games (Higgins was injured) and he got 6 points and +5.
If he would have been a defensive liability, we would have heard about it all over the board.
I actually remember some nice defensive play at some point.
During that period, Tanguay had also 6 points (including a 4 points game) and +6.
If I remember correctly most of those were assists. He had something like 1 goal in 7 games playing with experienced and skilled playmakers. A line where HE was suppose to be the shooter. And what happened to the next 8? Dry spell.

Lats is no where near ready for top line minutes, duties nor responsibilities. For one, your 1st line is suppose to be your main producers so unless you're expecting Lats to put up a 60+ point season, he shouldn't be your 1st line winger.

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07-17-2009, 02:52 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
So let's solve this...

Last year he was on the first line for 6 games (Higgins was injured) and he got 6 points and +5.
If he would have been a defensive liability, we would have heard about it all over the board.
I actually remember some nice defensive play at some point.
During that period, Tanguay had also 6 points (including a 4 points game) and +6.

So let's give him a real shot at it: 15-20 games on the first line at the beginning of the season with Gomez and Gionta. I think he is ready.
I also think that Lats problem about confidence and when this will be solve he is going to elevate his play to the next level.
He certainly has enough hits (140 in 56 games is like 205 in 82 games - Kunitz had 207 in 12th position) and size to be a good fit for that line.To compare, based on a 82 games season, SKost has 71 hits and MaxPac has 106 hits.
So he would be a nice addition to Gomez and Gionta.

Meanwhile, let's keep MaxPac in AHL and let him play also top minutes so he can improve.
I don't want to see MaxPac on 3rd or 4th line. I prefer to see him in AHL with top minutes. He is the kind of guy who needs to play a lot to keep his momentum.
If either SKost or Lats does not deliver or if there are some injuries then bring MaxPac. We have enough depth to do this.

If he does not deliver, let's bring him back to 3rd line and be very happy with 20G - 20A from a third liner.
if i remember correctly( and i know its the case) i would say a great portion of hits come after the play, once the player has already gotten rid of the puck,not separating the puck from the player.Most of his hits as i recall are at home games maybe i guess just to get a rise of the crowd, so dont go by stats alone....

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07-17-2009, 04:28 PM
  #214
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Good post. When he hits he hurts. He has nice soft hands. His speed has improved. If he improves his positioning and plays with players with skill he could so nice damage on the third line. 20-20 with hitting would be great with him revving it up a notch in the playoffs crashing the net. 800 K will seem a bargain.
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
So let's solve this...

Last year he was on the first line for 6 games (Higgins was injured) and he got 6 points and +5.
If he would have been a defensive liability, we would have heard about it all over the board.
I actually remember some nice defensive play at some point.
During that period, Tanguay had also 6 points (including a 4 points game) and +6.

So let's give him a real shot at it: 15-20 games on the first line at the beginning of the season with Gomez and Gionta. I think he is ready.
I also think that Lats problem about confidence and when this will be solve he is going to elevate his play to the next level.
He certainly has enough hits (140 in 56 games is like 205 in 82 games - Kunitz had 207 in 12th position) and size to be a good fit for that line.
To compare, based on a 82 games season, SKost has 71 hits and MaxPac has 106 hits.
So he would be a nice addition to Gomez and Gionta.

Meanwhile, let's keep MaxPac in AHL and let him play also top minutes so he can improve.
I don't want to see MaxPac on 3rd or 4th line. I prefer to see him in AHL with top minutes. He is the kind of guy who needs to play a lot to keep his momentum.
If either SKost or Lats does not deliver or if there are some injuries then bring MaxPac. We have enough depth to do this.

If he does not deliver, let's bring him back to 3rd line and be very happy with 20G - 20A from a third liner.

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Old
07-17-2009, 04:55 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by m00ks View Post
Lats is no where near ready for top line minutes, duties nor responsibilities. For one, your 1st line is suppose to be your main producers so unless you're expecting Lats to put up a 60+ point season, he shouldn't be your 1st line winger.
Well... about Lats being a main producer...

The reality is that, even-strength, he just about is. This may surprise you, but relative to icetime, he had the most 5-on-5 goals and points of any Hab from last year who's still with the team. Heck, screw rate stats -- only the two AKs scored more ESG than he did, and he only had 56 games to do it in. Project it to 82 games, and the only guy on the current team who beats him is Cammy, with AKost very close. And it's not a fluke thing, he's been like that every year.

If you want that puck put in the net 5-on-5, your 3 best options are M.Cammalleri, A.Kostitsyn, and G. Latendresse.

He might not get a 60-point season because he can't seem to get anything on the PP, but 35-40 points at even-strength is certainly within the realm of possibility (he was on pace for 32 this year) and that's fairly standard for low-end first-liners.

Yeah, a lot of that is projecting rates over longer periods and larger chunks of icetime, but I think that if the guy does this well in limited icetime, you give him more icetime to see if it continues.

Of course, you may end up wanting to swap him for Sergei Kostitsyn during PPs if Lats can't get it going, but really, who cares so long as he keeps producing 5-on-5? It's not like the Habs have a ton of good even-strength players. In fact, they've been rather lousy at it.

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07-17-2009, 05:27 PM
  #216
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It's nice to see players taking less. I don't care about the term, he won't be UFA for a while. Bob Gainey must have talked to some of the players about taking less money to fit in the cap. They seem to be listening.

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07-17-2009, 05:50 PM
  #217
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Well... about Lats being a main producer...

The reality is that, even-strength, he just about is. This may surprise you, but relative to icetime, he had the most 5-on-5 goals and points of any Hab from last year who's still with the team. Heck, screw rate stats -- only the two AKs scored more ESG than he did, and he only had 56 games to do it in. Project it to 82 games, and the only guy on the current team who beats him is Cammy, with AKost very close. And it's not a fluke thing, he's been like that every year.

If you want that puck put in the net 5-on-5, your 3 best options are M.Cammalleri, A.Kostitsyn, and G. Latendresse.

He might not get a 60-point season because he can't seem to get anything on the PP, but 35-40 points at even-strength is certainly within the realm of possibility (he was on pace for 32 this year) and that's fairly standard for low-end first-liners.

Yeah, a lot of that is projecting rates over longer periods and larger chunks of icetime, but I think that if the guy does this well in limited icetime, you give him more icetime to see if it continues.

Of course, you may end up wanting to swap him for Sergei Kostitsyn during PPs if Lats can't get it going, but really, who cares so long as he keeps producing 5-on-5? It's not like the Habs have a ton of good even-strength players. In fact, they've been rather lousy at it.
But isn't that even strength production directly influenced by the quality of opposition he faces? Would he be able to keep producing at that rate when matched up against top lines night in and night out? And how would he keep up with Gomez/Gionta's or Gomez/Cammy's speed on a rush up the ice?

I like Lats and I like what he brings. I just think he's still too green to be given the ball to run with it. Still haven't found his game, although he seems to be getting closer to it when paired with Laps.
I'd be more than happy if he proves me wrong and flat out explodes next season but as it stand, I still think he's got a long road ahead.

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07-17-2009, 05:55 PM
  #218
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What????
Our players that already play for us are taking less. Chipchura, Latendresse could have gotten more. We'd be even closer to the cap. I wasn't talking about the 17 million dollars Gainey spent in 3 hours on July 1. Those players had to be convinced to play here. Imagine Chipchura at 1M and Latendresse at 1.7M.

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07-17-2009, 06:24 PM
  #219
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But isn't that even strength production directly influenced by the quality of opposition he faces? Would he be able to keep producing at that rate when matched up against top lines night in and night out?
Of course. That's a concern, although quality of linemates has to be considered a factor.

But Latendresse has not exactly been facing completely wimpy opposition. He was on the checking line, so he got deployed against top lines. Not top checkers, NHL stars nonetheless. Look here. See who he has been spending the most icetime against.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/2008...player0360.php

Now, because of his injury and the schedule it's pretty unbalanced across team, but it's still telling. Jason Spezza tops the list. You see Dany Heatley and David Krejci up there. There's some top D-men too, he's spent a fair amount of time against Chara and Wideman. And so on.

Besides, at least he has serious NHL experience. Does anyone honestly think about this and feel Pacioretty could face first-line opposition? D'Agostini? They were rookies, and as rookies they were predictably sheltered, and they didn't do as well as Lats.

Since Cammy, Gionta, and AKost have top-six roles pretty much graven in stone, the only remaining wingers with real experience in top-six roles are Sergei Kostitsyn and Guillaume Latendresse. And even SKost doesn't have a full season to his name.

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And how would he keep up with Gomez/Gionta's or Gomez/Cammy's speed on a rush up the ice?
How does he keep up with Lapierre? And Cammy's not that fast, unfortunately.

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I like Lats and I like what he brings. I just think he's still too green to be given the ball to run with it.
One problem is that there's nobody available who is less green than him, unless you want one of Georges Laraque or Travis Moen on the second line.

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07-17-2009, 06:29 PM
  #220
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I hope we try Latendresse with Plekanec and Cammalleri

I can see the first line being Andrei, Gomez and Gionta

Those would be fairly balanced, its time we give top6 TOI to Lats in order to see his true potential. I'm sure he's better than a checking line winger. If he keeps on struggling on the PP we can have Sergei taking shifts in his stead. I can see Lats and him competing for top6 ice time. Unless Pacioretty or D'Agostini break out in spectacular fashions I don't see them on the top 6 with everyone else healthy.

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07-17-2009, 06:46 PM
  #221
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How does he keep up with Lapierre?
Lapierre's chips the puck, the time he takes to chase it down gives Lats enough time to catch up. If we're talking about carrying the puck from our blue line out, I think Lats would considerably have trouble keeping up with Gomez on a game to game basis.

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Since Cammy, Gionta, and AKost have top-six roles pretty much graven in stone, the only remaining wingers with real experience in top-six roles are Sergei Kostitsyn and Guillaume Latendresse. And even SKost doesn't have a full season to his name.
Yes I agree that he gets top 6 duties but I was strictly talking about the first line. I don't think he establishes himself in the top 3 this season.

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07-18-2009, 10:23 AM
  #222
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I dont understand
Gainey probably talked some of our players into taking less money.

The conversation went like this:

Gainey: Dude..I just spent a ******** of money. I don't know how I can afford to give you a raise.
Guillaume: But I just had a baby. I need money.
Gainey: You do look like you lost some weight. Can't you just do one of those reality shows all the kids are doing.
Guillaume: Okay.....
Gainey: Send in Brisebois on the way out.
Gainey: YA Pat....We're going to have to move you to the basement....and I'm going to need that stapler back.

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07-18-2009, 02:33 PM
  #223
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Lapierre's chips the puck, the time he takes to chase it down gives Lats enough time to catch up. If we're talking about carrying the puck from our blue line out, I think Lats would considerably have trouble keeping up with Gomez on a game to game basis.
He did fine with Koivu and Tanguay. As long as he understands his role he should succeed. It's not his job to keep up with them and create fancy plays, it's his job to use his body to make space and bang home garbage goals.

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07-18-2009, 03:23 PM
  #224
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He did fine with Koivu and Tanguay. As long as he understands his role he should succeed. It's not his job to keep up with them and create fancy plays, it's his job to use his body to make space and bang home garbage goals.
Latendresse started off "fine" and racked up a number of assists but only 1 goal. After 10 or 12 games he began to slide badly. Maybe Carbonneau was too hasty but he clearly saw that Lats' magic spell was broken.

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