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Old
07-21-2009, 07:34 PM
  #51
Mothra
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Oh to have someone as competant.
nice....so GMGM isnt competant? I know youre not a fan of his but thats a bit overboard

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07-21-2009, 07:51 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
nice....so GMGM isnt competant? I know youre not a fan of his but thats a bit overboard
It takes an especially competent GM to ride two of the three best players to come into the league in the past 20 years to a Cup.

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07-21-2009, 08:14 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
nice....so GMGM isnt competant? I know youre not a fan of his but thats a bit overboard
AS competant....as....

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George McPhee....The Teflon GM. 15 years of failure and counting....

6 - Number of playoff series the Capitals have won since George McPhee took over as General Manager in 1997 (which makes him the third-longest-tenured GM in the League), three of which came in McPhee's first season on the job.
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07-21-2009, 08:17 PM
  #54
brs03
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
AS competant....as....
Doesn't competent by definition pretty much lack degrees?

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07-21-2009, 08:21 PM
  #55
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It takes an especially competent GM to ride two of the three best players to come into the league in the past 20 years to a Cup.
What is that all of the sudden a knock against Ken Holland, Al Arbour, Glen Sather, (and many others) too? It's silly to intimate that they won just because they have a trio of great players. The management group made incredibly saavy moves down the stretch and they all panned out.

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07-21-2009, 08:21 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
Doesn't competent by definition pretty much lack degrees?
Not mine.

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07-21-2009, 08:35 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
What is that all of the sudden a knock against Ken Holland, Al Arbour, Glen Sather, (and many others) too? It's silly to intimate that they won just because they have a trio of great players. The management group made incredibly saavy moves down the stretch and they all panned out.
You're giving Shero entirely too much credit, IMO. The real reason everything panned out was the growth/play of Crosby and Malkin.

Kunitz and Guerin were decent moves, but they scored 8 goals combined in the playoffs. The Staal pick was a reach, and the extension is a major overpayment, and the Sykora and Satan additions were disasters. The only other thing of note he's done didn't pan out, and that was trading for Hossa. He's basically ridden the talent acquired during the Craig Patrick regime.

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07-21-2009, 08:41 PM
  #58
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pretty clear to me that Johnny took this long to sign because he was waiting for McPhee to decide if he could make an offer or not. I think McPhee tried to move Theodore or had to wait for ownership to decide if they were willing to eat Theodore's contract one way or another.

When the either the answer came down as no or Johnny tired of waiting, he hooked up with the Pens. This is a paycut for Johnny, though, yes? I think Johnson was told that the Caps couldnt sign him and he took the best job available.

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07-21-2009, 09:12 PM
  #59
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Darn. I stopped following popular music before most of you all were born. Still, I was really into the "Sweep the Leg, Johnny" music video clip they sometimes ran on the VC jumbotron when Johnny would do a good one. Darn. No mercy, sensei....

We need two healthy, reliable goalies to get through the grind and marathon of an 82game regular season. If Varly keeps his sheen and health, and Theo does not implode, then Theo's pay goes away no later than the trade deadline because of either (1) a trade or (2) the deadline itself, even absent a trade. Given the various likely outcomes, the wisdom of ditching Theo now and relying on BJ or Neuvirth as a Varly backup was low to nil. BJ's minimal contract value reflects his health risk. Good luck to him. I will miss his atttude, warm up rituals and jumbotron video.

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07-21-2009, 09:33 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by DefenseDotCom View Post
Darn. I stopped following popular music before most of you all were born. Still, I was really into the "Sweep the Leg, Johnny" music video clip they sometimes ran on the VC jumbotron when Johnny would do a good one. Darn. No mercy, sensei....

We need two healthy, reliable goalies to get through the grind and marathon of an 82game regular season. If Varly keeps his sheen and health, and Theo does not implode, then Theo's pay goes away no later than the trade deadline because of either (1) a trade or (2) the deadline itself, even absent a trade. Given the various likely outcomes, the wisdom of ditching Theo now and relying on BJ or Neuvirth as a Varly backup was low to nil. BJ's minimal contract value reflects his health risk. Good luck to him. I will miss his atttude, warm up rituals and jumbotron video.
It reflects the market more than anything. This was very likely the last spot left in the NHL. Obviously the health risk is there, but all bets are off when trying to figure "value" in this environment I think.

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07-22-2009, 03:02 AM
  #61
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If Johnny had to go, it's just too bad it's too the Pens. I guess he like that deal too since he's still in the East and not terribly far from his home.

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07-22-2009, 06:38 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Really, so this is all, in your eyes a vote of "little confidence" from ownership and management? They're just going to tread water and next year and beyond we should expect big daring trades and amazing wheeling and dealing by McPhee and company? Forgive my skepticism.
I don't think it says that management necessarily plans to blow the fans' socks off with trades in future. I think it simply means they are absorbing the full frontal cap penalties this year, because they do not want to suffer from them for the next three or four years, which is what buyouts now entail. It's no longer just money, it's money plus cap penalties for twice the length of the deal.

The idea of buyouts to get a little more cap space this year pre-supposes that they are alright taking the penalties that come with buyouts own the road. They aren't looking like a team happy about the future downside to buyouts.

...and frankly, this defense still stinks, for a pretender. It isn't winning a Cup anyway. So position the team to have the cap space it's going to need starting next summer for Semin/Backstrom.

I think it's a myth that this team, as currently constituted, is in a Cup-winning window. It needs either an impact player on defense via trade/free agency, or time to let the core talent on defense mature into their primes.

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07-22-2009, 07:01 AM
  #63
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i disagree, i think the defense far from stinks. You dont need Pronger, you just need one grab the bull by the horns defensemen. Ours, Poti, was not healthy last year. The defensemen that many complained about all year, were arguably our best defensemen in the playoffs. As it was in its damaged state, we were one game away from the ECF and playing what is argued a beatable carolina. Finals here we come. Obviously Detroit was beatable as well. Not bad for pretenders, or any team.

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07-22-2009, 11:29 AM
  #64
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A little late. Good Luck personally (bad luck for the team) Jonny.

I'm in 100% with Drake on the philosophy of the org and I've mentioned it a few times post Kubina rants. Glad to see others think the same.

This org is constructed around a maturing forward group followed by a developing defense and goalie group. That's not the way you build an org in hockey but those are the cards. You don't pass on AO, Backs etc in the draft because you want to build "right".

But there comes a time when GMGM is going to need to be held accountable. He's navigating through waters right now of his own making. His own signings that are limiting this teams ability to compete. While many agreed with the signings at first (incl me cause I saw the point), the outcomes are now there for all to see.

In football its best to rebuild via left tackle, then qb, then wr, then rb because of the development time for the positions. Same for hockey. You can win with a young goalie and forward group so long as you have a mature defense. We don't and GMGM can't trade his way into it do to his own actions.

So here we are marking time and getting experience. I just hope we're not wasting time for an exceptional group of talented forwards while they are young.

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Old
07-22-2009, 11:32 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
you just need one grab the bull by the horns defensemen. Ours, Poti, was not healthy last year.
When the team's "grab the bull by the horns" player is...Tom Poti...the situation is dire.

Sink or Swim.

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07-22-2009, 11:36 AM
  #66
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The team's bar for a solid defenseman is pretty low right now, it is true. There are potential good ones in the mix, but they're too young to be stalwarts at this point in time. The organization appears resigned to waiting until that core is matured before it makes a run at a title.

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07-22-2009, 11:44 AM
  #67
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Every year that Ovechkin is healthy and management doesn't support him is a year wasted.

I understand the concept of allowing your young players to mature before going all in, but it's hard to buy that strategy when there's a good chance players like Alzner, Bourque, and Carlson won't see NHL action this year.

This just looks like inaction borne out of poor asset management and worse salary cap management. There is no plan.

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07-22-2009, 11:47 AM
  #68
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It's the problem you encounter when you scrap the whole team and start over. Forwards are ready to go a lot sooner than defensemen. Unless you supplant your players acquired through the draft with talent from outside the organization, you are going to have a set of forwards in their prime before your defense hits its prime.

How do you address that? Well, you can use free agency and you can trade some young talent for developed talent. The team has tried the former and is stuck with some lemons. The team has not been willing to try the latter.

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07-22-2009, 11:57 AM
  #69
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The team has not been willing to try the latter.
To this point...I wonder why there has been a reluctance to make a deal with all the assets in the system? I mean, there was a bit of it at the deadline two years back with the Fedorov and Huet deals...but losing Ruth and a 3rd was not really trading away much in terms of getting a core piece or two back.

Vogel goes on and on about it every off season...that it's the time to trade away quantity for quality...but nothing yet. It's a patience game I guess....I thought it would have been done by now...but nothing yet.

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07-22-2009, 12:00 PM
  #70
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Part of it may be that the team is resolved that the core prospects: Alzner, Carlson, Varmalov, Neuvirth... are keepers. It may be that no GM is interested in anyone outside those four players.

Would the team part with Bouchard or Perreault or even Fehr or Osala? I think that it's a possibility. I just don't think GMs see past the two goalies or the two defensemen.

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07-22-2009, 12:20 PM
  #71
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Part of it may be that the team is resolved that the core prospects: Alzner, Carlson, Varmalov, Neuvirth... are keepers. It may be that no GM is interested in anyone outside those four players.
I think Osala & Orlov would have some value around the league as well. (Orlov depending on the team and their general relationship with Russians.) But otherwise you're right. The best they could probably get for one of those middling guys would be akin to the Fedorov deadline deal. Next year's first round pick is likely to hold more value than anyone outside of those top half-dozen or so.

The defense needs upgrading. No question about that. It features one name player and then a cast of players that have either bounced around the league or are largely homegrown no-names. Given how difficult it is to make trades these days I think it's imperative that they do a better job of addressing their weaknesses by simply playing smarter. There's still ample room for improvement from a team-wide standpoint if those areas are properly identified and constantly worked on. Namely IMO the forwards have to do more to help out the D in all respects and the team as a whole has to do a much better job of staying out of the box. The PK is arguably their main weak point and they did nothing to help themselves by taking so many penalties and putting it under fire so often.

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07-22-2009, 01:32 PM
  #72
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I don't think it says that management necessarily plans to blow the fans' socks off with trades in future. I think it simply means they are absorbing the full frontal cap penalties this year, because they do not want to suffer from them for the next three or four years, which is what buyouts now entail. It's no longer just money, it's money plus cap penalties for twice the length of the deal.

The idea of buyouts to get a little more cap space this year pre-supposes that they are alright taking the penalties that come with buyouts own the road. They aren't looking like a team happy about the future downside to buyouts.

...and frankly, this defense still stinks, for a pretender. It isn't winning a Cup anyway. So position the team to have the cap space it's going to need starting next summer for Semin/Backstrom.

I think it's a myth that this team, as currently constituted, is in a Cup-winning window. It needs either an impact player on defense via trade/free agency, or time to let the core talent on defense mature into their primes.
I think you're a bit off. Clearly this team is just starting its Cup-winning window. They took the Champs to 7 games, while getting shaky goaltending and by most accounts getting dominated by the Pens most of the series. IMO, they're 1 workhorse defender away from being a consistant top 3 or 4 team in the playoffs. Sucks that McPhee tied our hands. Beauchamin was had for fairly cheap. He could have been that impact guy....oh well...sigh...

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07-22-2009, 01:35 PM
  #73
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Every year that Ovechkin is healthy and management doesn't support him is a year wasted.
I understand the concept of allowing your young players to mature before going all in, but it's hard to buy that strategy when there's a good chance players like Alzner, Bourque, and Carlson won't see NHL action this year.

This just looks like inaction borne out of poor asset management and worse salary cap management. There is no plan.
And that's the frustrating thing to me. Seems like many people here are willing to wait so long for the rest of the team to come up to speed. Frustrating to think we're wasting Ovy's prime years (or at least spinning our wheels).

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07-22-2009, 01:36 PM
  #74
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They aren't far away, but until they show that willingness not only to consider, but to pay the cost to acquire, that top-three or top-four defender, I don't think that window truly exists. Once they make that kind of move, though, I think they're in the mix come playoff time.

I don't think the Caps have been inactive, but I think they may be stuck at the kicking-the-tires phase, and having trouble giving up those core young assets needed to pick up an impact defenseman. I'd guess that they are offering all kinds of prospects and picks, but balking at giving up one of Varlamov, Neuvirth, Alzner or Carlson. That is killing deals right now.

I wouldn't say that I'm happy about it, mind you. That seems to be the reality right now, though. The team is hoarding its elite young players; those pieces are necessary components of impact-defenseman trades involving the Capitals today.

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07-22-2009, 01:42 PM
  #75
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When the team's "grab the bull by the horns" player is...Tom Poti...the situation is dire.

Sink or Swim.
I may be alone in my thinking but I think a Poti Green pairing can be a viable top pairing in this league. Instead we beat our head against with wall with Mo as a top pair guy. Coupled with minimal support from the forwards... amazingly it still almost got us to the ECF. Obviously their health issues were a factor as well.

Love the one you are with. Poti was a total stud 2 years ago and I think would have been last year if he didnt have the groin and broken foot. You may not see it in his PIM stats, but the dude is a baller. Gamer. Not to mention our best PK guy.

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