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07-22-2009, 01:49 PM
  #76
CapitalsCupFantasy
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
They aren't far away, but until they show that willingness not only to consider, but to pay the cost to acquire, that top-three or top-four defender, I don't think that window truly exists. Once they make that kind of move, though, I think they're in the mix come playoff time.

I don't think the Caps have been inactive, but I think they may be stuck at the kicking-the-tires phase, and having trouble giving up those core young assets needed to pick up an impact defenseman. I'd guess that they are offering all kinds of prospects and picks, but balking at giving up one of Varlamov, Neuvirth, Alzner or Carlson. That is killing deals right now.

I wouldn't say that I'm happy about it, mind you. That seems to be the reality right now, though. The team is hoarding its elite young players; those pieces are necessary components of impact-defenseman trades involving the Capitals today.
Understandably so too....imagine those 4 turn into good NHLers, all stars even...not sure we could even keep that team together long sadly...

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07-22-2009, 01:52 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
I may be alone in my thinking but I think a Poti Green pairing can be a viable top pairing in this league. Instead we beat our head against with wall with Mo as a top pair guy. Coupled with minimal support from the forwards... amazingly it still almost got us to the ECF. Obviously their health issues were a factor as well.

Love the one you are with. Poti was a total stud 2 years ago and I think would have been last year if he didnt have the groin and broken foot. You may not see it in his PIM stats, but the dude is a baller. Gamer. Not to mention our best PK guy.
Love Poti...one of the best Caps free agent signings ever, but he's a tweener IMO. Decent #2, REALLY good #3. Poti/Green would probably be stronger, but Mo/Erskine/Shultz in your 2nd pair looks really ugly. Mo/Pothier is a pairing I would try this year in camp.

Green/Poti
Mo/Pothier
Jurskine/Schultz

Alzner/Carlson (cry)

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07-22-2009, 02:00 PM
  #78
Drake1588
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Understandably so too....imagine those 4 turn into good NHLers, all stars even...not sure we could even keep that team together long sadly...
It's understandable, but it's the roadblock. You can either praise McPhee for developing his talent and not giving it up too quickly, or you urge the team to give up those assets to acquire a big-name asset. This is why I am ambivalent on the pace of the current team improvement. I like those four players, myself.

There are fans and posters who suggest that you don't need to give them up to acquire that player. I am not sure that is true, not with the kinds of contracts the Caps are carrying right now. I think that to fit a player that solid, it needs to be a player already under contract, not a RFA. To get one of those quality defensemen who is affordable and still under contract, you need to give up something of real value. On the Caps, it is those four young assets.

The alternative is, of course, to entertain thoughts of trading Semin.

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07-22-2009, 02:08 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
It's understandable, but it's the roadblock. You can either praise McPhee for developing his talent and not giving it up too quickly, or you urge the team to give up those assets to acquire a big-name asset. This is why I am ambivalent on the pace of the current team improvement. I like those four players, myself.

There are fans and posters who suggest that you don't need to give them up to acquire that player. I am not sure that is true, not with the kinds of contracts the Caps are carrying right now. I think that to fit a player that solid, it needs to be a player already under contract, not a RFA. To get one of those quality defensemen who is affordable and still under contract, you need to give up something of real value. On the Caps, it is those four young assets.

The alternative is, of course, to entertain thoughts of trading Semin.
I think you have to do both. His player aquisitions through the draft, free agency, trades, over the past 5 years have been solid, even bordering on pretty good (minus a few free agent screwups and questionable contract extensions). However, I think he has to shift his mindset at some point to a person willing to make the tough decision to part with potentially really good young players for established all star level players.

I would love to see an analysis of the top 25-50 alltime NHL goal scorers and see if and when they won championships, how those years compared to their peak production years as individuals. If that came back with most won championships from 25-29, I would feel better about letting another year play out before pulling the trigger on a major deal.


I think you have to consider the possibility of moving Semin. I would expect a young stud defender, or forward, no less than 3 years away from UFA status and another prospect and or 1st rd pick.

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07-22-2009, 02:23 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
It's understandable, but it's the roadblock. You can either praise McPhee for developing his talent and not giving it up too quickly, or you urge the team to give up those assets to acquire a big-name asset. This is why I am ambivalent on the pace of the current team improvement. I like those four players, myself.

There are fans and posters who suggest that you don't need to give them up to acquire that player. I am not sure that is true, not with the kinds of contracts the Caps are carrying right now. I think that to fit a player that solid, it needs to be a player already under contract, not a RFA. To get one of those quality defensemen who is affordable and still under contract, you need to give up something of real value. On the Caps, it is those four young assets.

The alternative is, of course, to entertain thoughts of trading Semin.
I agree with this for the most part. Then the Kubina trade smacks you in the face.

I think the salary cap hell that GMGM put himself in plays the primary restrictive aspect of GMGM believing the defense is "fine" despite the evidence to the contrary(along with Ted just not being financially able to bury guys in Hershey).

Of course the option that he actually believes it needs to be put on the table.

I still laugh at the AO quote about getting a big Dman from a few days ago.

To be true there are so many aspects to the reason GMGM is doing what he's doing. From 2009/10 cap, to hoarding propects mentality ie long term winning, to "winning" each trade, to ufa philosophy, to ensuring the core can be signed. All of which buries the desire to potentially become 2009/10 Cup Champs.

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07-22-2009, 02:25 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Love Poti...one of the best Caps free agent signings ever, but he's a tweener IMO. Decent #2, REALLY good #3. Poti/Green would probably be stronger, but Mo/Erskine/Shultz in your 2nd pair looks really ugly. Mo/Pothier is a pairing I would try this year in camp.

Green/Poti
Mo/Pothier
Jurskine/Schultz

Alzner/Carlson (cry)
I know folks probably still hate Jurcina (unfairly IMO), but he and Mo were our top pair not so long ago. And looked pretty decent. Bruce didnt get them a sniff last year.

Poti Green
Mo Jurcina/Pothier
Sarge Pothier/Juice
Erskine

Tell the forwards to get their ***** back to help on the breakout and go with it. We keep re-signing these RFA guys so they are our guys, like it or not. Mo is not a viable top pair guy in this league; Poti is much more suited for that IMO. Its early but it appears Alzner is screwed again.

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07-22-2009, 02:56 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
The alternative is, of course, to entertain thoughts of trading Semin.

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07-22-2009, 03:16 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
It's understandable, but it's the roadblock. You can either praise McPhee for developing his talent and not giving it up too quickly, or you urge the team to give up those assets to acquire a big-name asset. This is why I am ambivalent on the pace of the current team improvement. I like those four players, myself.

There are fans and posters who suggest that you don't need to give them up to acquire that player. I am not sure that is true, not with the kinds of contracts the Caps are carrying right now. I think that to fit a player that solid, it needs to be a player already under contract, not a RFA. To get one of those quality defensemen who is affordable and still under contract, you need to give up something of real value. On the Caps, it is those four young assets.

The alternative is, of course, to entertain thoughts of trading Semin.
I am not sure you intended to write it this way, but you are saying the Caps need to give up all those top young assets to land the difference maker they need on defense to make them legit come playoff time. I think it is necessary to part with one of them, yes. More than one or all of them, not remotely.

Putting Carlson in a package with a 1st round pick and a roster player is painful, but it still leaves the Caps with 3 of those assets.

I think that many posters here need to see that players like Carlson and Alzner don't become that difference maker until they have built up a resume. Look at Mike Green.
He has had two all star caliber seasons and a Norris Trophy nomination clearly has a lot to still learn in the playoffs.

The Caps can win the cup next season with the right addition while Carlson isnt likely to be that kind of player for 3, 4, 5 years yet.

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07-22-2009, 03:29 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
The Caps can win the cup next season with the right addition while Carlson isnt likely to be that kind of player for 3, 4, 5 years yet.
Tantalizingly, I think the player who could take us from another 2nd round exit to legit contender is still out there and he might strongly consider us. Zubov improves the defense and virtually fixes the transition problem, but it would require creativity and it's a big risk.

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07-22-2009, 03:30 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
I am not sure you intended to write it this way, but you are saying the Caps need to give up all those top young assets to land the difference maker they need on defense to make them legit come playoff time. I think it is necessary to part with one of them, yes. More than one or all of them, not remotely.

Putting Carlson in a package with a 1st round pick and a roster player is painful, but it still leaves the Caps with 3 of those assets.

I think that many posters here need to see that players like Carlson and Alzner don't become that difference maker until they have built up a resume. Look at Mike Green.
He has had two all star caliber seasons and a Norris Trophy nomination clearly has a lot to still learn in the playoffs.

The Caps can win the cup next season with the right addition while Carlson isnt likely to be that kind of player for 3, 4, 5 years yet.
That's a bad way to use Green as an example. He was awesome vs. Philly, when he was healthy, and not good this year when he wasn't. Experience isn't going to give him a very big edge if he's playing injured (look at Poti for example).

But that doesn't change the fact that Green didn't become that all-star, Norris contending player in his first pro seasons. Even without the coaching issue it would have likely still taken him a few seasons to turn into the player he is today. Now we're certainly not expecting the same things from these guys, Alzner moreso, but it's safe to say that even playing to their own styles it'll take some time for them to reach a comparable level of impact.

I'd venture to say that that doesn't mean we should move them, though, even if it certainly makes losing one of them doable if they're key pieces in the "right" deal (I'm frankly not sure who is out there that we would really target that's a big enough name to warrant one of them, but that's another issue entirely).

We don't have many older Dmen on the team, but a few of the older players we do have aren't great either. Better to have young talent step in for old lack-of-talent if that's the way things go.

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07-22-2009, 03:32 PM
  #86
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Tantalizingly, I think the player who could take us from another 2nd round exit to legit contender is still out there and he might strongly consider us. Zubov improves the defense and virtually fixes the transition problem, but it would require creativity and it's a big risk.
Yeah...too bad we cant afford him.

Ugh.

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07-22-2009, 03:33 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Tantalizingly, I think the player who could take us from another 2nd round exit to legit contender is still out there and he might strongly consider us. Zubov improves the defense and virtually fixes the transition problem, but it would require creativity and it's a big risk.
I can't even let myself entertain the dream. It would require you-know-who to you-know-what, somehow. I hear Jagr still needs a center... no... can't allow myself to think it...


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07-22-2009, 03:39 PM
  #88
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How much money can he really be seeking? He's coming off of some serious, serious surgery. And if we wanted to be really bold, we could offer bonuses in a contract.

Walk away from Jurcina, waive Pothier or package him with a 2nd rounder. Get creative.

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07-22-2009, 04:10 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Tantalizingly, I think the player who could take us from another 2nd round exit to legit contender is still out there and he might strongly consider us. Zubov improves the defense and virtually fixes the transition problem, but it would require creativity and it's a big risk.
Zubov could also break down and play 10 games next year like last year. I mean the guy has only managed to play 56 games over the last 2 seasons combined and turned 39 today.

That isn't just a big risk it is a HUGE one with honestly very little chance of success and I love the guy. That would just be rolling the dice with the odds completely against them and stakes that they really can't afford to play with IMO...

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07-22-2009, 04:34 PM
  #90
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Zubov could also break down and play 10 games next year like last year. I mean the guy has only managed to play 56 games over the last 2 seasons combined and turned 39 today.

That isn't just a big risk it is a HUGE one with honestly very little chance of success and I love the guy. That would just be rolling the dice with the odds completely against them and stakes that they really can't afford to play with IMO...
That's a valid point. And I could easily see him missing a good portion of next season as well. But His breakout passes, shootout prowess, and poise on the point are too alluring. He also brings maturity to a very young defense and could be a great influence.

So personally, I think he's worth the risk entirely. However, that's under the assumption he signs for reasonable salary/term.

Little to no chance the Capitals can make room for him. We can all dream, I suppose.

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07-22-2009, 05:32 PM
  #91
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I am not sure you intended to write it this way, but you are saying the Caps need to give up all those top young assets to land the difference maker they need on defense to make them legit come playoff time. I think it is necessary to part with one of them, yes. More than one or all of them, not remotely.
No, I am arguing for just one of them. To land an impact player, the Caps would need to part with one of them, not all.

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07-22-2009, 06:35 PM
  #92
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Love to have Zubov... grumble. His condition makes it too risky I think.

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07-22-2009, 07:43 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Tantalizingly, I think the player who could take us from another 2nd round exit to legit contender is still out there and he might strongly consider us. Zubov improves the defense and virtually fixes the transition problem, but it would require creativity and it's a big risk.

Zubov is the same age as Fedorov. I think it possible that Zubov could provide some of the things that Fedorov provided, but I doubt that he will be able to provide any better play than a middle of the lineup guy with skills that are somewhat reduntant.

Would you pay Fedorov money for him?

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07-22-2009, 07:46 PM
  #94
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No, I am arguing for just one of them. To land an impact player, the Caps would need to part with one of them, not all.
I would jump on that in a ny minute. I never understood the need expressed by many here to keep all of those players at all costs.

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07-22-2009, 09:38 PM
  #95
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I would jump on that in a ny minute. I never understood the need expressed by GMGM to keep all of those players at all costs.
my thoughts

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