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Hossa Signs with Chicago :( (Updated: Kopecky to Chicago too!)

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07-22-2009, 10:28 AM
  #726
HockeyinHD
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
And that's a bad assumption. Because there's always someone willing to overpay.


Sound reasoning.

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Rafalski got a six year contract, no?
Campbell got seven. And, theoretically, since he'll be younger at it's end, he should be a little less worn down.
Of co
Let's put this another way, Tin. If Campbell was a UFA today, do you think he could get a 7 year, 50 million dollar contract?

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07-22-2009, 10:29 AM
  #727
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/2302

I'm not surpriced at all, that Hossa could have been injured at the playoffs. He just wasn't his own self.

But this is a quite big bomb, if he hasn't told for the Blackhawks about his injury before signing the contract.

This will be really interesting.

And ironic. They just get rid of that injury-prone Havlat.
Hossa might turn out to be just as injury prone but just more willing/able to play through it. From glancing over the thread on the main page and the Thrasher fans talking about his playing through injuries in Atlanta and from watching the abuse he took as a wing, I wouldn't be surprised if he's playing dinged up most nights. The guy's a helluva player and built like a tank, but he took a lot of hits. With all of the talk about possible injuries to Franzen and Z and how it impacts how good their contracts are, is a dinged up/ineffective Hossa any better than a dinged up/sidelined Franzen? Not sure the answer there.

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07-22-2009, 10:33 AM
  #728
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Hossa could be out till December

A report in ESPN Insider and the Free Press.

http://www.freep.com/article/2009072...equire-surgery

Just doesn't want to face Detroit in the home opener

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07-22-2009, 11:36 AM
  #729
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glad to see he's living up to his contract

there is no way he's playing till he's 42

edit: maybe this is the reason holland didn't sign him

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07-22-2009, 11:44 AM
  #730
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edit: maybe this is the reason holland didn't sign him
It could have been a factor. Hossa has been pretty healthy over his career. However, between breaking into the league young and playing all of those games, he's got a lot of wear and tear on his body. The past few seasons he's missed more time than in his younger days. If Hossa is out until December or January, that would be yet another chink in the armor. So I wouldn't dismiss the idea.

However, Zetterberg has missed his fair share of time, as has Franzen, and that didn't dissuade Holland from locking them up extremely long term.

So, I still think loyalty to players who were drafted & came up through our system was still a bigger factor in Holland neglecting to make a serious pitch to Hossa.

IMO, this does a lot more to explain why Hossa was less effective in the playoffs rather than explaining why he wasn't brought back.

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07-22-2009, 12:17 PM
  #731
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It could have been a factor. Hossa has been pretty healthy over his career. However, between breaking into the league young and playing all of those games, he's got a lot of wear and tear on his body. The past few seasons he's missed more time than in his younger days. If Hossa is out until December or January, that would be yet another chink in the armor. So I wouldn't dismiss the idea.

However, Zetterberg has missed his fair share of time, as has Franzen, and that didn't dissuade Holland from locking them up extremely long term.

So, I still think loyalty to players who were drafted & came up through our system was still a bigger factor in Holland neglecting to make a serious pitch to Hossa.

IMO, this does a lot more to explain why Hossa was less effective in the playoffs rather than explaining why he wasn't brought back.

I KNEW it had to be something. I could never get past how dangerous the guy was with the Pens, and then zilch with a better support cast. It didn't add up, and I never bought the playoff choker label. The guy wasn't a kid or someone who was in his first playoff series.

I still think Holland screwed up by pitting Franzen against Hossa, telling them he'd sign the guy whose cap number was okay first and then close down until the playoffs ended. I don't think it conveyed enough value to either player. Holland overpaid Franzen on term (I've said that all along); and then Holland tried to hang on to too many guys. He should have just known he had to let Sammy and Hudler go if he wasn't going to move someone or cut elsewhere. Holland does a great job overall, but even he makes mistakes. It was timing and trying to do too much, along with valuing the homegrown talent a bit too highly.

Regarding the injuries, Hossa is more durable than Z and Franzen. I don't think that should have been a factor.

 
Old
07-22-2009, 05:50 PM
  #732
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http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....ys_1.html#more

"He was hurt before he got to us,'' Holland said. "Our doctors looked at him and we had conversations about whether to have surgery. Our doctors recommended he should have something done at some point but it's something he can play with.''

He played all season with the same injury.

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07-22-2009, 05:54 PM
  #733
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http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....ys_1.html#more

"He was hurt before he got to us,'' Holland said. "Our doctors looked at him and we had conversations about whether to have surgery. Our doctors recommended he should have something done at some point but it's something he can play with.''

He played all season with the same injury.

Yeah, I just saw that.... It might have gotten worse though if he's considering surgery now. (Or... why is he considering surgery now?)

 
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07-22-2009, 05:54 PM
  #734
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Yeah, I just saw that.... It might have gotten worse though if he's considering surgery now. (Or... why is he considering surgery now?)
Probably because he just signed a 12 year deal.

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07-22-2009, 06:00 PM
  #735
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Probably because he just signed a 12 year deal.
Ah well. He's gone. Time to move on.

 
Old
07-22-2009, 06:52 PM
  #736
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Yeah, I just saw that.... It might have gotten worse though if he's considering surgery now. (Or... why is he considering surgery now?)
Because (duh!) if the Hawks can put him on LTIR they can get sufficient cap relief to pretty much not have to worry about trading Sharp.

If the Hawks had to deal with their cap from game 1 day 1, they'd be in huge, huge trouble.

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07-22-2009, 09:57 PM
  #737
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Because (duh!) if the Hawks can put him on LTIR they can get sufficient cap relief to pretty much not have to worry about trading Sharp.

If the Hawks had to deal with their cap from game 1 day 1, they'd be in huge, huge trouble.
So they go to Hossa and say, "Have that surgery now, sonny." I dunno. I can see going to an extreme to get out of a cap mess that only the Hawk brass didn't see coming, but this seems pretty strange. Why did they want Hossa at all? I think they're into some star power, marketing thingy. Sidelining him for almost half the season doesn't fit in with that plan.

 
Old
07-22-2009, 10:05 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
So they go to Hossa and say, "Have that surgery now, sonny." I dunno. I can see going to an extreme to get out of a cap mess that only the Hawk brass didn't see coming, but this seems pretty strange. Why did they want Hossa at all? I think they're into some star power, marketing thingy. Sidelining him for almost half the season doesn't fit in with that plan.
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=308634

Blackhawks general manager Stan Bowman called Marian Hossa's right rotator cuff injury "relatively minor" on Wednesday but admitted surgery remains a possibility.

"If it's something that needs to be fixed, that would be the way to go," Bowman said. "Surgery would be a last resort and we're not at that point, but if we have to do it, we have to do it."

In confirming the injury first reported by the Daily Herald late Tuesday, Bowman said Hossa has been sent to Minnesota to do his rehab work with a specialist.

"We're watching him and monitoring him," Bowman said. "Hopefully he's like a lot of other guys and he rehabs it and he's good to go.

"He could play with it. What we've got to determine is what's best for the long term. It's one of those things that can go either way."


http://www.suntimes.com/sports/hocke...umn-22.article

Turns out Marian Hossa has a bum shoulder. Wasn't Martin Havlat's history of shoulder injuries a big reason why the Blackhawks inked Hossa instead?

Not to worry. That's the team's take. We knew about it all along. Relax, people.

The injury was not serious enough to dissuade them from signing the prized free-agent to the richest contract in franchise history, even though it may require surgery and could perhaps jeopardize his availability for the season opener.

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07-23-2009, 07:59 AM
  #739
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So they go to Hossa and say, "Have that surgery now, sonny." I dunno. I can see going to an extreme to get out of a cap mess that only the Hawk brass didn't see coming, but this seems pretty strange. Why did they want Hossa at all? I think they're into some star power, marketing thingy. Sidelining him for almost half the season doesn't fit in with that plan.
Fugu, it was a stupid signing. By this point, I should think that is obvious. By going the LTIR route for the first half of the season, however, the Hawks accomplish the following things:

1) They don't have to trade Patrick Sharp this year. Yes, they are probably still going to lose at least one if not two of the group of Kane, Towes and Keith by the start of the 2010 season, but at least it's not those guys PLUS Sharp.

2) They can sell Hossa's late arrival on the team as 'their trade deadline move' to a fan base that is probably going to be really leery of the team by that point, given their goaltending situation.

I don't know who made the final call on the Hossa signing... and by the way, Kopecky's making 1.2 mil (!!) for them as well... but whoever did that screwed up pretty badly. Chicago is in the same situation now that Detroit was entering last season, cap wise. They had some room to make a one-year offer, but the RFA situation was going to absorb quite a bit of cap space moving forward.

So, rather than doing the intelligent thing like Ken Holland... using the space you have now but allowing yourself flexibility moving forward... what the Hawks have done is totally kill themselves. They are done, capwise. They have this year, a year which will feature Cristobal freaking Huet as the #1, to win a Cup. After this year, they are borked.

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07-23-2009, 08:46 AM
  #740
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In confirming the injury first reported by the Daily Herald late Tuesday, Bowman said Hossa has been sent to Minnesota to do his rehab work with a specialist.
So they bring in Hossa to replace the injury prone Havlat, only to learn Hossa has a long term injury already so they send him to Minnesota just like Havlat...

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Because (duh!) if the Hawks can put him on LTIR they can get sufficient cap relief to pretty much not have to worry about trading Sharp.

If the Hawks had to deal with their cap from game 1 day 1, they'd be in huge, huge trouble.
Yeah but they either pull the trigger on those trades or they only sign one of toews, kane, and keith, maybe two, definitely not 3.

Also given the surgery would only put him out till december it's not going to be a very long term solution to cap problems.

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07-23-2009, 09:05 AM
  #741
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So they bring in Hossa to replace the injury prone Havlat, only to learn Hossa has a long term injury already so they send him to Minnesota just like Havlat... :laugh
Hoss is our saboteur. he's going to ruin Chicago's cap situation, be constantly hurt, and weaken a divisional foe.

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07-23-2009, 10:30 AM
  #742
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Yeah but they either pull the trigger on those trades or they only sign one of toews, kane, and keith, maybe two, definitely not 3.

Also given the surgery would only put him out till december it's not going to be a very long term solution to cap problems.
Well no, it's not a long term solution... but it's about 2 billion times better of a solution than they had before.

If whoever is making the decisions for Chicago has any brains at all, they are going to start really beating the bushes for a legitimate trade partner between now and the end of the calendar year, preferably in the Eastern Conference. They've got to find a way to get about 6 mil of long-term cap off their books by the end of this year, and probably by the trade deadline. IMO they should bite the bullet and move Sharp and either trade or demote Sopel. That would get them about 3/4ths of the way to being able to make a legitimate offer for two of their 3 RFAs.

The problem is, the Bolland and Versteeg deals set an internal market for Kane, Toews and Keith of no less than 5 mil a guy. Even if they can get all three locked up at that number, you're looking at a 2010-11 cap number of just over 57 mil with all of 15 guys under contract.

Even if they are able to clear Sharp and Sopel off the roster the Hawks will STILL have a cap number at over 50 mil, and they'll STILL need to fill between 7-10 roster spots.

That's why I think it will be impossible for the Hawks to keep their three RFAs, and even if they do keep their three RFAs the 2010-11 Hawks will be worse than the 2009-10 Hawks... which are going to be worse than the 2008-9 Hawks.

They're going the wrong way, and they are crushed by the cap regardless.

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07-23-2009, 11:19 AM
  #743
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Fugu, it was a stupid signing. By this point, I should think that is obvious. By going the LTIR route for the first half of the season, however, the Hawks accomplish the following things:

1) They don't have to trade Patrick Sharp this year. Yes, they are probably still going to lose at least one if not two of the group of Kane, Towes and Keith by the start of the 2010 season, but at least it's not those guys PLUS Sharp.

2) They can sell Hossa's late arrival on the team as 'their trade deadline move' to a fan base that is probably going to be really leery of the team by that point, given their goaltending situation.

I don't know who made the final call on the Hossa signing... and by the way, Kopecky's making 1.2 mil (!!) for them as well... but whoever did that screwed up pretty badly. Chicago is in the same situation now that Detroit was entering last season, cap wise. They had some room to make a one-year offer, but the RFA situation was going to absorb quite a bit of cap space moving forward.

So, rather than doing the intelligent thing like Ken Holland... using the space you have now but allowing yourself flexibility moving forward... what the Hawks have done is totally kill themselves. They are done, capwise. They have this year, a year which will feature Cristobal freaking Huet as the #1, to win a Cup. After this year, they are borked.
I agree it was a stupid signing. A team with the kind of talent Chicago has in their youngsters does not need Hossa-- at $5+ MM cap hit. I can see adding some veteran leadership, a la Dallas Drake or Gary Roberts-type players..... but this didn't make any sense to me.

Yet, what makes the Hawks more screwed cap-wise is the two earlier signings, in Huet and Campbell. Those are by far greater overpayments than Hossa. Hossa wasn't exactly necessary. Campbell and Huet were just incredibly bad decisions all the way around.

Well, let's see if Hossa does end up with surgery and how Bowman tries to maneuver out of this mess. I think the decisions were McDonaugh's and he's still around....

 
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