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Old
07-24-2009, 09:46 AM
  #26
DontStepanMe
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Higgins - Dubinsky - Gaborik

Callahan - Drury - Kotalik

Avery - Anisimov - Zherdev

I cant put any of those guys on the 4th line. All are capable of netting 20.

Extra forwards:

Lisin
Boyle
Byers
Brashear
Voros
you can put Avery on the 4th line... as he has never hit 20 in his career, and is a target for penalties against him. He could be very effective in giving the 4th line some scoring, while limiting his ice time so we aren't on the PK. Plus he could have Brashear there to back him up for his retarded antics and if anybody wants to fight.

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Old
07-24-2009, 10:08 AM
  #27
HockeyBasedNYC
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
you can put Avery on the 4th line... as he has never hit 20 in his career, and is a target for penalties against him. He could be very effective in giving the 4th line some scoring, while limiting his ice time so we aren't on the PK. Plus he could have Brashear there to back him up for his retarded antics and if anybody wants to fight.
Avery was flat out the best skater on the ice for the Rangers on more than one occasion in the playoff series against the Capitals. I am not putting him on the 4th line.

I see what you are saying, but regardless of his antics, his feistiness and jump on the puck deep in the offensive zone is needed for Tortorellas style of play. He plays it to a tee. 3rd line i could deal with, but unless hes in a slump or Torts isnt getting what he needs out of him (i doubt that because Avery is a gamer)- you need him on the ice for more than 6 minutes a game.

Im also not going to jump on a Lisin bandwagon just because the guy has a ton of speed and netted 13 goals in 48 games last season. I want to see how this guy deals with the city, the coach and the role he is put in, not to mention that all scouting reports suggest hes a terrible player on defense. In this system your position is key as a winger, and if he doesnt have the ability to read a play its going to be extremely difficult for him to get significant time.

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Old
07-24-2009, 10:22 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
you can put Avery on the 4th line... as he has never hit 20 in his career, and is a target for penalties against him. He could be very effective in giving the 4th line some scoring, while limiting his ice time so we aren't on the PK. Plus he could have Brashear there to back him up for his retarded antics and if anybody wants to fight.
no way Avery sees the fourth line

i think he should spend the season on the 3rd but my guess is that as the season progresses you see him get time on all three of the top lines

im sure at some point we'll see both Avery and Gaborik line up for a face off on the same line..not that i necessarilly want to see it, but its gonna happen

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Old
07-24-2009, 10:43 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Avery was flat out the best skater on the ice for the Rangers on more than one occasion in the playoff series against the Capitals. I am not putting him on the 4th line.
but you forgot that he was also one of the worst players on the ice sometimes, and basically cost us a crucial game during the playoffs. With Avery either he is highly effective, or a detriment. There really isn't much middle ground, and you never know which player is going to show up.

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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I see what you are saying, but regardless of his antics, his feistiness and jump on the puck deep in the offensive zone is needed for Tortorellas style of play. He plays it to a tee. 3rd line i could deal with, but unless hes in a slump or Torts isnt getting what he needs out of him (i doubt that because Avery is a gamer)- you need him on the ice for more than 6 minutes a game.
I understand that he could fit in under Tort's system. what I am saying is that maybe by limiting his icetime, you can maximize his effectiveness. Playing Avery too much will almost guarantee at least one penalty a game (bs or real) b/c it is Avery. If he can keep his emotions in check, he can be very effective, but he has yet to show that he can do that with any regularity. I understand the many positives he brings to the team, but it seems that many people overlook the negatives. By limiting his exposure, you limit the chance of a meltdown by him (or a bad untimely penalty), but he can still be effective. I agree he needs to be out more than 6 min, but I don't think he should see more than 10.

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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Im also not going to jump on a Lisin bandwagon just because the guy has a ton of speed and netted 13 goals in 48 games last season. I want to see how this guy deals with the city, the coach and the role he is put in, not to mention that all scouting reports suggest hes a terrible player on defense. In this system your position is key as a winger, and if he doesnt have the ability to read a play its going to be extremely difficult for him to get significant time.
I also would like to see what the kid has got. The only way to do that is by playing him on the third line or up. We know what we have in Avery. If Zherdev is resigned Avery becomes the least skilled top 9 forward (which he might be already). If Lisin can put up points at Avery's pace or more, without taking dumb penalties, than I would rather him play, and keep Aves on the 4th line as energy and limit his exposure. If Lisin looks overmatched, or is costing us games b/c of defense than by all means he should be benched.

If Zherdev isn't resigned than this is all moot anyway.

I know that Avery is a fan favorite, but if another player can put up points, and play competent defense, without putting us shorthanded than we should look at that.

If we can maximize Avery but cutting his time back a little, than what is the problem?

Also, I don't think this team will need Avery as a sparkplug like in years past, b/c our coach is the biggest sparkplug we have. If you don't play with energy he will bench you.

Overall, I just think Avery's importance is overrated, especially since we have Torts as a coach. He brings plenty of good things to the table, but you can't overlook the bad he also brings. I truly think that 10 min a game is the way to maximize Avery's feistiness and ability without putting his own team at a disadvantage.

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Old
07-24-2009, 11:23 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
but you forgot that he was also one of the worst players on the ice sometimes, and basically cost us a crucial game during the playoffs. With Avery either he is highly effective, or a detriment. There really isn't much middle ground, and you never know which player is going to show up.



I understand that he could fit in under Tort's system. what I am saying is that maybe by limiting his icetime, you can maximize his effectiveness. Playing Avery too much will almost guarantee at least one penalty a game (bs or real) b/c it is Avery. If he can keep his emotions in check, he can be very effective, but he has yet to show that he can do that with any regularity. I understand the many positives he brings to the team, but it seems that many people overlook the negatives. By limiting his exposure, you limit the chance of a meltdown by him (or a bad untimely penalty), but he can still be effective. I agree he needs to be out more than 6 min, but I don't think he should see more than 10.



I also would like to see what the kid has got. The only way to do that is by playing him on the third line or up. We know what we have in Avery. If Zherdev is resigned Avery becomes the least skilled top 9 forward (which he might be already). If Lisin can put up points at Avery's pace or more, without taking dumb penalties, than I would rather him play, and keep Aves on the 4th line as energy and limit his exposure. If Lisin looks overmatched, or is costing us games b/c of defense than by all means he should be benched.

If Zherdev isn't resigned than this is all moot anyway.

I know that Avery is a fan favorite, but if another player can put up points, and play competent defense, without putting us shorthanded than we should look at that.

If we can maximize Avery but cutting his time back a little, than what is the problem?

Also, I don't think this team will need Avery as a sparkplug like in years past, b/c our coach is the biggest sparkplug we have. If you don't play with energy he will bench you.

Overall, I just think Avery's importance is overrated, especially since we have Torts as a coach. He brings plenty of good things to the table, but you can't overlook the bad he also brings. I truly think that 10 min a game is the way to maximize Avery's feistiness and ability without putting his own team at a disadvantage.

Ahh yes let's play not to lose. What a loser mentality. Hope Torts doesn't share it.

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Old
07-24-2009, 11:27 AM
  #31
DontStepanMe
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Ahh yes let's play not to lose. What a loser mentality. Hope Torts doesn't share it.
how is that playing not too lose? It's maximizing all the players effectiveness to win.

If Lisin can put up the same points as Avery, and play decent defense without the dumb penalties than why would you cut his ice time in favor of Avery.

This lovefest of Avery is nauseating.

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07-24-2009, 11:41 AM
  #32
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how is that playing not too lose? It's maximizing all the players effectiveness to win.
Seriously.

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This lovefest of Avery is nauseating.
SERIOUSLY.

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Old
07-24-2009, 11:51 AM
  #33
HockeyBasedNYC
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
but you forgot that he was also one of the worst players on the ice sometimes, and basically cost us a crucial game during the playoffs. With Avery either he is highly effective, or a detriment. There really isn't much middle ground, and you never know which player is going to show up.



I understand that he could fit in under Tort's system. what I am saying is that maybe by limiting his icetime, you can maximize his effectiveness. Playing Avery too much will almost guarantee at least one penalty a game (bs or real) b/c it is Avery. If he can keep his emotions in check, he can be very effective, but he has yet to show that he can do that with any regularity. I understand the many positives he brings to the team, but it seems that many people overlook the negatives. By limiting his exposure, you limit the chance of a meltdown by him (or a bad untimely penalty), but he can still be effective. I agree he needs to be out more than 6 min, but I don't think he should see more than 10.



I also would like to see what the kid has got. The only way to do that is by playing him on the third line or up. We know what we have in Avery. If Zherdev is resigned Avery becomes the least skilled top 9 forward (which he might be already). If Lisin can put up points at Avery's pace or more, without taking dumb penalties, than I would rather him play, and keep Aves on the 4th line as energy and limit his exposure. If Lisin looks overmatched, or is costing us games b/c of defense than by all means he should be benched.

If Zherdev isn't resigned than this is all moot anyway.

I know that Avery is a fan favorite, but if another player can put up points, and play competent defense, without putting us shorthanded than we should look at that.

If we can maximize Avery but cutting his time back a little, than what is the problem?

Also, I don't think this team will need Avery as a sparkplug like in years past, b/c our coach is the biggest sparkplug we have. If you don't play with energy he will bench you.

Overall, I just think Avery's importance is overrated, especially since we have Torts as a coach. He brings plenty of good things to the table, but you can't overlook the bad he also brings. I truly think that 10 min a game is the way to maximize Avery's feistiness and ability without putting his own team at a disadvantage.
Hey listen, im not a huge Avery supporter here. I didnt even want him back. But he helps the team win more than he hurts them imo. Regardless of the penalties he gets shafted for... he also draws a lot of penalties too and makes the Rangers a tougher team to play against no matter how you cut it. Ill be the first to bury the guy if he does something stupid. I agreed with Tortorella in benching him in the playoffs.

If Torts thinks hes hurting the team with his antics im sure well see him benched or put on the 4th line this season too. If this kid Lisin or someone else is doing a better job, by all means sure... put him on the 4th line. IM not saying he HAS to play top minutes. Its whatever the team needs. But my feeling is going into this season I think his play and effectiveness without the puck in this system is worth top 3 line minutes until im proved otherwise.

Hes also one of the few players that will go to the net and stay there, particularly on the PP.

And youre right, this is all moot if Z isnt signed.

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Old
07-24-2009, 12:03 PM
  #34
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Because you're going to limit the ice time of a player who more often than not last year was one of the best on the ice. Avery is going to take his fair share of penalties. However, half of which are always BS. You can't assume when these are or aren't going to happen. I think he'll improve this year under Torts but you can't take one of your best players off the ice for this long. Regardless of what people think of him, Game 7 he was unbelievable.

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Old
07-24-2009, 12:18 PM
  #35
DontStepanMe
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Hey listen, im not a huge Avery supporter here. I didnt even want him back. But he helps the team win more than he hurts them imo. Regardless of the penalties he gets shafted for... he also draws a lot of penalties too and makes the Rangers a tougher team to play against no matter how you cut it. Ill be the first to bury the guy if he does something stupid. I agreed with Tortorella in benching him in the playoffs.

If Torts thinks hes hurting the team with his antics im sure well see him benched or put on the 4th line this season too. If this kid Lisin or someone else is doing a better job, by all means sure... put him on the 4th line. IM not saying he HAS to play top minutes. Its whatever the team needs. But my feeling is going into this season I think his play and effectiveness without the puck in this system is worth top 3 line minutes until im proved otherwise.

Hes also one of the few players that will go to the net and stay there, particularly on the PP.

And youre right, this is all moot if Z isnt signed.
he does help the team more than he hurts, I will not deny that. I just think that with a player like him you can maximize his effectiveness by limiting his minutes to around 10 min a game.

but you are correct that Lisin does need to prove himself, and that as of right now Avery should be on the third line. But Lisin does have alot of potential and we do need to get an accurate read of how effective he can be. And if Zherdev is signed Avery becomes the logical choice to to be demoted out of our top 9. If Lisin doesn't play well at all, then I have no problems with Avery on the 3rd line. However if Lisin does play well than it would be beneficial for us to keep Avery on the 4th with shifts here and there up on higher lines.

If Zherdev is signed our top 8 forwards would be: Gabby, Cally, Higgy, Dubi, Ani, Zherdev, Kotalik, Drury. None of those players should be on the 4th line.

That leaves Lisin and Avery. I just think Lisin wouldn't fit well on the 4th line when his supposed best weapon is his offense (whether he really is good or not we need to find out).

That's my rationale for why Avery would be the choice for demotion.

Just think of how interesting a line of Avery-boyle-Brashear or Brashear-Avery-Byers or Avery-boyle-Byers would be.

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Old
07-24-2009, 12:29 PM
  #36
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Because you're going to limit the ice time of a player who more often than not last year was one of the best on the ice.
that was last year. Look at our forwards this year. if he is one of the best players on the ice this year, this team is in alot of trouble.

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Avery is going to take his fair share of penalties. However, half of which are always BS.
It doesn't matter if it is BS or not. Its still a penalty and still leaves our team shorthanded. That's the problem. I'm not going to say he deserves all the penalties b/c he doesn't. However he still gets them.


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You can't assume when these are or aren't going to happen.
It's not really an assumption. It happens. It's plain to see. it happened throughout all last year. It's unfortunate, and pisses me off, but it happens. he is a targeted player.

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I think he'll improve this year under Torts but you can't take one of your best players off the ice for this long. Regardless of what people think of him, Game 7 he was unbelievable.
Game 7 he was unbelievable. But the game before he was invisible. The game before that he was benched. the game before that he almost cost us the game w/ his penalties. You are only seeing one side of the spectrum. I mean during the series he had 2 assists, 24 PM and was a -3. Yet you make him out to be a savior during that series. Besides game 7 he really didn't do much.

Look at Buffalo when they beat us, he was invisible. He was held pointless and was a -5. The thing with Avery is that he can be absolutely amazing one game, but than will cost us a game, or become completely invisible.

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