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Old
07-26-2009, 07:39 AM
  #26
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What is Lundmark's excuse for failing in all of the other places he has failed? This notion that a team mishandlead a player and caused him to not make it is stone-cold bullsh*t. Is he mentally damaged for the rest of his career because his itsy-bitsy feelings was hurted? Oh, the poor baby.

Do you think it would have been possible to mishandle any of the top players in hockey who did make it? It's easy to make excuses. Lundmark has had many chances to make it. He just isn't good enough.

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07-26-2009, 07:40 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Kovy274Hart View Post
Brendl was now ready to make the Rangers roster. However, before the season began, Brendl was involved in a trade to the Philadelphia Flyers for Eric Lindros, who wanted out of Philadelphia. Brendl would join several Czech players in Philadelphia as well, which was expected to make him comfortable. He made the team out of camp, but after 8 games and only 1 goal, he was sent to the Philadelphia Phantoms of the AHL.[/B]
He didn't really "make" the team. He was handed a spot on the team, put on the 4th line eventually, and then everyone wondered why he didn't produce when he wasn't given ice time. Then he was sent to the AHL, and each time in his career, played like he didn't feel like being there.

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07-26-2009, 07:42 AM
  #28
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Is this dude playing in the KHL?

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07-26-2009, 07:50 AM
  #29
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Is this dude playing in the KHL?
Sure is. Finished tied with Jan Marek in goals scored in the KHL last season and 10th in points.

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07-26-2009, 11:03 AM
  #30
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Something I haven't seen mentioned yet is Brendl's skating. He was extremely slow. While playing for the Hitman in the WHL, his coach would have him play by the red line to be set up for breakaways.

Combine that with his extreme lack of conditioning, his skating was atrocious.

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07-26-2009, 01:44 PM
  #31
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He finished 3rd in scoring in SEL in 07/08 and was a PPG, which is very tough to do in the defensive SEL and where there are no 2nd assists.
SEL has 2nd assists, every level of hockey in Sweden has 2nd assists. I don't know where this quite common miss-assumption comes from.

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07-26-2009, 01:45 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by in the hall View Post
Something I haven't seen mentioned yet is Brendl's skating. He was extremely slow. While playing for the Hitman in the WHL, his coach would have him play by the red line to be set up for breakaways.

Combine that with his extreme lack of conditioning, his skating was atrocious.
You are right, but you could credit that to his work ethic, everyone can get better and faster, he just didn't think he needed to.

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07-26-2009, 05:04 PM
  #33
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His commitment to food was much bigger than his commitment to hockey.
He had a commitment to hockey?

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07-26-2009, 05:15 PM
  #34
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Prucha stopped earning his icetime.

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07-26-2009, 09:18 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Wow Kovy, excellent post. You make some damn fine points and I agree with you on almost all of them. Really, the only thing I strongly disagree with is your opening: "That's not the point."

For me, it is. In the very specific case of Jamie Lundmark, I don't think it would have mattered how the Rangers dealt with the situation. I just don't think he was ready to be successful anywhere in any organization, regardless of circumstance. It's just a reflection of my opinion of the kid as a player.

Also, I'd probably disagree with your inclusion of Potter in all this. I just don't see it with him. He looks like a number 7 to me, maybe an average bottom pair guy. Not that those players are worthless, but if someone like Sangs or Del Zotto plays him even in camp, I'd rather see the spot go to the guy I believe to have upside.

Okay. I can go along with the player deserving part of the blame. In Lundmark's case, I think he got real frustrated with the situation. I can recall someone in the know telling me such when he was sent back down. Those bus trips can be counterproductive. Especially when you're as highly thought of as Jamie was. All they ever did was talk him up just like all the others. How Sather wouldn't trade him, etc.

Then, it was business as usual overpaying Holik to team with Lindros and Messier and was Nedved still there? God. I hope not but he might have been. Good god. How can any young player survive when the team stacks the lineup with vets? There's just no room. When a guy gets shifted around, maybe they begin to question things wondering, 'Wtf is going on?' I think Jamie's work ethic suffered a bit. The compete level dropped and so did his confidence. Once that goes, it's too late.

I never felt that point had come with Dawes. They gave up on him too soon. He showed some potential albeit not consistent. But you have to let a player grow. If he pans out, great. If not, next.

I understand how you feel about one of our higher rated D prospects making it. But I also feel Potter hasn't been treated fairly and could wind up panning out elsewhere as a dependable 5 or 6. Maybe that's not great shakes but if we didn't have all these commitments to overpaid vets, he'd already have been part of the solution. And that means either Redden or Rozy wouldn't be here and we'd have more cap space to work with. Damn Sather.

It depends on how they do in camp. If a kid proves better, then so be it.

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07-26-2009, 09:22 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
He didn't really "make" the team. He was handed a spot on the team, put on the 4th line eventually, and then everyone wondered why he didn't produce when he wasn't given ice time. Then he was sent to the AHL, and each time in his career, played like he didn't feel like being there.
True. He didn't get enough ice-time IMHO to showcase his skills. Fourth line duty for a top prospect is a total waste. Unless there's a plan, it just doesn't work. Though I agree that any kid must earn his keep. But if there's talent, you got to surround him with others. Start on the third line and go from there.

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07-26-2009, 10:17 PM
  #37
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I might be the only one, but I'd like to see him get another shot in the NHL. With us. If we could get him for a fair price, I'd try it out. Give him an out clause to leave if he doesn't pan out.

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Old
07-27-2009, 07:07 AM
  #38
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If it were a few years ago, I'd agree. But by now, it's probably too late. Besides, Brendl has had some success in the KHL. So, he'll likely stay put.

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Old
07-27-2009, 08:43 AM
  #39
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I remember a goal he scored on Marty in a preseason game on a wrist shot from the top of the circle. Reminded me of Joe Sakic...

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07-27-2009, 10:40 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRfan68 View Post
What stopped him from panning out. Reading the literature from when he first came out of the whl its amazing. He seems like could be the next player to score 70 and he doesn't make the nhl.
How talented was he?
What was he like to watch play?
He never had any kind of speed or skating ability, he was pretty heavy set and just had little intensity in his body.

Depending on how high you set the bar there is a whole set of explanations for why he didn't make it.

To start off, he should have made it and we in NYR screwed him on a NHL career -- there is no doubt about that. Like for no reason whatsoever he was written up as a AO/Crosby type of talent before getting here. Like he was never even remotely that good and it just shows how low class the mainstream media around the NYR is. Like in the WJC's he was pretty mediocre besides on the PP for example. He went 4th overall in a half avg draft... Then he came here to NY with potential to become a 30-40 goal scorer during his best years, but not with one bit of potential to become a franchise player -- and was expeceted to dominate from the age of 18-19...

His shot is without anydoubt good enough to score 25-30 in the NHL -- on it alone. But he was never developed with a aim of getting his overall game to a level just to survive. He was just thrown to the wolfs and was seen as a tremendous dissapointment because he couldn't dominate right away.

Today that would have been 100% diffrence. Our off-ice tests would have shown how far behind he is. We would have been aware right away of how much work he needed. He would have been sent to the rookie camps and pushed extremely hard -- when he was drafted we sent him back home to the Czech Rep alone (he didn't have anyone to train with there since he belonged to a CHL team) and he went to Ibiza instead of spending the summer in a rookie camp like todays kids does.

Thats why Brendl isn't in the NHL today scoring 25-35 goals on a regular basis, probably for a lower tier team like PHX/CBJ/FLA or something like that.

With that said, why didn't he reach up to his hype? He never even remotely was that talented. Not skating stride, no engine, no extreme drive to improve -- he is/was lazy and stuff like that.

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Old
07-27-2009, 10:48 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovy274Hart View Post
If it were a few years ago, I'd agree. But by now, it's probably too late. Besides, Brendl has had some success in the KHL. So, he'll likely stay put.
He's only 28. I would like to see it happen.

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Old
07-27-2009, 11:40 AM
  #42
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OT: isnt lundmark going to make the calgary flames this year? didnt he have a good amount of points in the NHL at the end of last season?

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Old
07-27-2009, 12:34 PM
  #43
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OT: isnt lundmark going to make the calgary flames this year? didnt he have a good amount of points in the NHL at the end of last season?
He had 16 points(8-8) in 27 games when the Flames injury/cap issues forced him into the lineup.

He will make the team out of camp this time I'm sure but strictly for the 4th line and other special duty.

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Old
07-27-2009, 01:09 PM
  #44
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To be fair, the 1999 draft could be the worst overall draft year in recent history. The entire draft, start to finish, just plain sucked. Going high in that draft was like being one of the smartest kids on the short bus. Fortunately enough for us, we had not one, but TWO chances to draft sucky kids in the suckiest year possible.

Bad timing to get a high pick eh? I do remember though Brendl was ranked as high as 1st overall that year. But, that's what's happens when you put up massive numbers like a Brendl did in Jrs. He had a 134 pt season in his draft year, that was in 68 games! Factoring in that the rest of that draft kind if tanked too, it's an easier pill to swallow.

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07-27-2009, 01:18 PM
  #45
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I think Brendl spent way too much time chillin with Tkachuk at Krispy Kreme.

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07-27-2009, 01:19 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
Bad timing to get a high pick eh? I do remember though Brendl was ranked as high as 1st overall that year. But, that's what's happens when you put up massive numbers like a Brendl did in Jrs. He had a 134 pt season in his draft year, that was in 68 games! Factoring in that the rest of that draft kind if tanked too, it's an easier pill to swallow.
Yeah, especially considering that if we had done the same thing nearly any other year we'd have had a decent player.

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07-27-2009, 02:47 PM
  #47
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I think that as fans, one factor we underevaluate is a player's personality. And, as much as teams try to test it before drafting a player, the inability to assess a player's core mental and emotional framework makes the draft a crapshoot.
We all react differently to disappointment, to stress, to competition, to criticism, to thwarted hopes, to opportunity, to perceived "unfairness," etc.
All professional athletes may be genetic physical freaks to some degree, but when it comes to other factors, they are just like you and me. To expect them to react in any other way to disappointment, etc, is not realistic. Many are going to react negatively, to mope, to be angry, etc; exactly the same as each of us would. Think how devastating it would be to be sent to the minors, in particular after doing well at training camp.Some will overcome disappointment and grow, use it as motivation, etc., but many will not. To expect athletes to react in a way that is somewhat not human, is not realistic.
I'll say this from my many years watching all manner of sports: sometimes a player in the minors reaches a point (physically, emotionally, mentally, and ability wise) where they are ready to take that next step. If they are not given that opportunity, they regress. Opportunity includes being allowed to play regularly, make rookie mistakes and learn from them. Opportunity is not being yanked from the lineup after those mistakes. A limited window in time closes. It is easy to criticize a player at this point but many react just the way you or I would. This is perhaps where the Ranger organization has fallen short. Sometimes I feel this was the case with Lundmark. He was ready to play, ready to grow, but never really had an extended period of time where he played without fear of being sent back to the AHL. Anisimov is in that situation now. Two years in the AHL and he is ready to be put into the lineup and play. I look at him as the acid test as to how the Rangers have grown (or not) as an organization. I don't want the Rangers to sign a center that will take his job. Ditto for Sauer and Potter. There is nothing more to be gained by more time in the minors.They need to play in the NHL regularly to show what they have. I'm not sure either can be a regular but their time is now. If they return to Hartford, they will regress.
As for Brendl, there were red flags flying about his eating habits before the draft; but he was ranked #1 in many mock drafts. Did the Rangers do due diligence on him? Who knows. Did they do due diligence on Kreider this year? Hopefully; but I'm not sure you ever can get an accurate read on a 17 or 18 year olds core personality and ability to grow. Look at Dubinsky: a 2nd round pick whose work ethic and drive have make him a successful NHL player. If his draft was reheld today he would be a 1st rounder, perhaps a top 10 pick. Could anyone have foreseen this? Some 2nd rounders disappear forever, some like Dubinsky succeed. There is probably little difference in ability level between those who make it and those who don't. It comes down to personality and being given the opportunity to succeed when and if that limited window opens.

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07-27-2009, 07:52 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Krm500 View Post
SEL has 2nd assists, every level of hockey in Sweden has 2nd assists. I don't know where this quite common miss-assumption comes from.
Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying. I guess it's been 20 years since I left the country...

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07-27-2009, 07:59 PM
  #49
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I think that as fans, one factor we underevaluate is a player's personality. And, as much as teams try to test it before drafting a player, the inability to assess a player's core mental and emotional framework makes the draft a crapshoot.
We all react differently to disappointment, to stress, to competition, to criticism, to thwarted hopes, to opportunity, to perceived "unfairness," etc.
All professional athletes may be genetic physical freaks to some degree, but when it comes to other factors, they are just like you and me. To expect them to react in any other way to disappointment, etc, is not realistic. Many are going to react negatively, to mope, to be angry, etc; exactly the same as each of us would. Think how devastating it would be to be sent to the minors, in particular after doing well at training camp.Some will overcome disappointment and grow, use it as motivation, etc., but many will not. To expect athletes to react in a way that is somewhat not human, is not realistic.
I'll say this from my many years watching all manner of sports: sometimes a player in the minors reaches a point (physically, emotionally, mentally, and ability wise) where they are ready to take that next step. If they are not given that opportunity, they regress. Opportunity includes being allowed to play regularly, make rookie mistakes and learn from them. Opportunity is not being yanked from the lineup after those mistakes. A limited window in time closes. It is easy to criticize a player at this point but many react just the way you or I would. This is perhaps where the Ranger organization has fallen short. Sometimes I feel this was the case with Lundmark. He was ready to play, ready to grow, but never really had an extended period of time where he played without fear of being sent back to the AHL. Anisimov is in that situation now. Two years in the AHL and he is ready to be put into the lineup and play. I look at him as the acid test as to how the Rangers have grown (or not) as an organization. I don't want the Rangers to sign a center that will take his job. Ditto for Sauer and Potter. There is nothing more to be gained by more time in the minors.They need to play in the NHL regularly to show what they have. I'm not sure either can be a regular but their time is now. If they return to Hartford, they will regress.
As for Brendl, there were red flags flying about his eating habits before the draft; but he was ranked #1 in many mock drafts. Did the Rangers do due diligence on him? Who knows. Did they do due diligence on Kreider this year? Hopefully; but I'm not sure you ever can get an accurate read on a 17 or 18 year olds core personality and ability to grow. Look at Dubinsky: a 2nd round pick whose work ethic and drive have make him a successful NHL player. If his draft was reheld today he would be a 1st rounder, perhaps a top 10 pick. Could anyone have foreseen this? Some 2nd rounders disappear forever, some like Dubinsky succeed. There is probably little difference in ability level between those who make it and those who don't. It comes down to personality and being given the opportunity to succeed when and if that limited window opens.
Don't disagree with the main point of your post at all, but to be fair, Dubi is a bad example - I'm not questioning his drive mind you (you can see it in almost every game he plays), but he grew something like 3 inches and 30 pounds after he was drafted.

If Bourque does something like that, we've got ourselves a 1st round talent in the 3rd round. (Eat those Wheaties, kid!)

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Old
07-27-2009, 08:16 PM
  #50
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One of the best shots in hockey.
Painful, knowing how good he could have been if he wasn't just floating around.

I used to go to Rangers practice camps back in the late-90s when they were held in Vermont (the access was great because they let you hang around the entire day). I recall being in awe of Brendl's shot and can still recall a goal he scored in a practice scrimage game on Jason LaBarbera where he stopped on a dime at the circle and fired a slapshot over the shoulder that caught both posts. It was ridiculous.

At the end of the day, you just never know what you get when you draft 18 year old kids. Alexander Daigle? Patrik Stefan? Remember them? The were supposed to both be "ZOMG cant miss future NHL All-Stars" too.

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