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Niko Z is going to need a new team (Awarded 3.9M)

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Old
07-27-2009, 11:50 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
Zherdev, Roszival, and Dubinski is the new Ryder, Halak and a 2nd
Uhh, where are you getting this ? Any one who has bothered to watch a Ranger game knows that Dubinsky is going no where. This isn't NHL 09

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Old
07-27-2009, 12:15 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by izzo View Post
Except for that seven-game stretch in the playoffs. Unless the fact that he didn't show up when it mattered most doesn't bother you.

By the way, I dug up this old article about Zherdev from two-plus years ago. I think it speaks volumes about the type of teammate he is:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...6Adgo21lyRmoEA

More or less, if I'm an NHL organization, I wouldn't touch him with a fifteen-foot pole if I'm trying to build a winner.
Just a tad bit small sample size, don't you think?

Do you crucify A-Rod and adore Jeter as well? There is no such thing as "clutch" or these conjectural moments where "it matters more," if he played enough games, his stats would easily regress to the mean. I'm sure that statement will warrant some old hat response, but it's reality.

I think two years is quite some time for a non-native speaker who was just drafted in the NHL. I can't respond because just like anyone else on this board, I'm not his teammate either, but there was no similar reports on him last year, albeit the typical Larry Brooks column.

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Old
07-27-2009, 12:24 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
This guy 'Ian' doesn't get it and thinks in a team sport, it doesn't matter how much effort you exert, how much you are willing to pay the price for your teammates or how you play when the game is on the line. He thinks it is all about points and that's it. He has no concept of how the game needs to be played to win.
When was the last time a team full of grinders won a SC, just because they tried really hard every game?

I'm surprised an organization hasn't gone with a top line of Ortmeyer/Betts/Hunter, they would just "pay the price" so hard teams would be blown away.

Like it or not, you need a balance of both. You know, players who put up those hollow numbers that mean nothing and never win anything called "stats", and then those all-important guys who lay it all on the line and make you fall asleep with their jersey in your arms.

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07-27-2009, 01:12 PM
  #104
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new york islanders

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Old
07-27-2009, 01:38 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by BlueShirts702 View Post
Done deal....as long as Riley Nash is on the return end?


Zherdev would fit in pretty decently up in Edmonton, and the Renney connection can do no harm either.
Riley Nash and Robert Nilsson

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07-27-2009, 02:24 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
There is no such thing as "clutch" or these conjectural moments where "it matters more"....
Your opinion, which I respect.

However, I could not disagree more.

The comment quoted is a comment born strictly of numbers and not context.

If you equate scoring a goal in a 5-1 intra-conference game in November vs. Phoenix with scoring a goal in tied Game Six of a playoff series in May, we watch a different game.

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07-27-2009, 03:50 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Your opinion, which I respect.

However, I could not disagree more.

The comment quoted is a comment born strictly of numbers and not context.

If you equate scoring a goal in a 5-1 intra-conference game in November vs. Phoenix with scoring a goal in tied Game Six of a playoff series in May, we watch a different game.
Well clearly the level of competition in a playoff series is upped, and the level of effort required to be a significant factor is slightly different, but good players strive in either. There is no clutch, no "playoff warrior" persona that guys play, it's just strange sample sizes amplified by myths and legends.

Look at a player like Claude Lemieux, who has always been praised as some sort of primetime performer, his playoff GPG average is just slight percentage points higher than his regular season GPG. A player's overall success in a single playoff series should not have significant impact on their value as a player, look at Chris Drury.

If you believe Zherdev is just not a quality player, well then you are free to believe that, but the idea that he is some sort of heartless ghost because he failed to put up points in a single series is absurd.

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07-27-2009, 06:22 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
When was the last time a team full of grinders won a SC, just because they tried really hard every game?
You just don't get it. You need skill guys, yes, but skill guys that work. The penguins other than Malkin, Crosby and possibly Kunitz didn't have much raw skill, bu they worked their arses off and paid the price. The thing is, their skill players paid the price as well.

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I'm surprised an organization hasn't gone with a top line of Ortmeyer/Betts/Hunter, they would just "pay the price" so hard teams would be blown away.


Quote:
Like it or not, you need a balance of both. You know, players who put up those hollow numbers that mean nothing and never win anything called "stats", and then those all-important guys who lay it all on the line and make you fall asleep with their jersey in your arms.
Your best players need to lead by example and show the rest of the team that they are willing to get their hands dirty. If the best players (mind you Zherdev was far from the rangers best player...leader in points, yes, but best player? joke...)show the muckers and grinders that they are willing to do those things, it makes EVERYONE buy in. Wow. Do I really need to explain this to you? Hollow numbers disappear when the games get tough, Zherdev proved that. Not sure why you would argue so adamently for a guy who does nothing put post empty numbers and disappear when the games are tough and physical. Nobody wants this type of guy on their team.

Zherdev puts up points when he has empty ice and the time and space...when the games get tougher in the second half of the season and playoffs, he disappears. It is his M.O. and anyone with a brain recognizes that this is not a guy you want to go into battle with. Sucks you cant' see it.

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07-27-2009, 06:34 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Well clearly the level of competition in a playoff series is upped, and the level of effort required to be a significant factor is slightly different, but good players strive in either. There is no clutch, no "playoff warrior" persona that guys play, it's just strange sample sizes amplified by myths and legends.
And instead of 'upping his level' Zherdev went the other way and acted like a scared schoolgirl with and without the puck. How is a coach supposed to trust a player like that? What about his teammates? He is supposed to be absolved of any responsibility of upping his level because it is 'not his style of play' or 'he scored many points just to get to the playoffs?' That is how you think and THAT is truly absurd and pretty much the antithesis of winning hockey.

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If you believe Zherdev is just not a quality player, well then you are free to believe that, but the idea that he is some sort of heartless ghost because he failed to put up points in a single series is absurd.
You are the one who keeps hammering on stats and points...for me, it has very little to do with it. The playoffs are waaay tighter and goal scoring is very difficult so it is not difficult to assume that a players ppg average during the playoffs will be lower.

The guy flung the puck away as soon as anyone got near him. If he did get it, he skated down the wing and chucked it towards the front of the net hoping it might get to his teammate, or not.

In reality, the stats are merely an afterthought of my arguement and it has absolutely everything to do with the way the guy played. It was flat embarrasing and if you couldn't see that, then like the other guy said, you and I watch a different game. Mind you, that became very apparent to me from your posts from the beginning.


Last edited by hashmarks: 07-27-2009 at 07:07 PM.
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Old
07-27-2009, 06:54 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
As reported by Brooksy



So what team is the next to take on the Z project?

He has sick skill with the puck and a wicked shot. He is pretty good in the shoot out too.

But he disappeared down the stretch last season and in the playoffs. Which is pretty much what the CBJ fans warned us he would do.

Wow you one game and than float for three. He's still young. Can he find the maturity to man up every game on another team?


I'd love to see him on the Bruins. but, i'd like us to sign Kessel and have i'd rather have Kessel anyday over niko. but if i had to i'd replace Bergeron with him

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07-28-2009, 12:17 AM
  #111
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I have to admit he's pretty good @ stickhandling but why doesn't he take advantage of this??
He takes his weak little wrist shot all the way from the blue line that a goalie will get 9.9 times out of 10.
I personally wouldn't sign him for a penny over 3mil
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07-28-2009, 01:08 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
And instead of 'upping his level' Zherdev went the other way and acted like a scared schoolgirl with and without the puck. How is a coach supposed to trust a player like that? What about his teammates? He is supposed to be absolved of any responsibility of upping his level because it is 'not his style of play' or 'he scored many points just to get to the playoffs?' That is how you think and THAT is truly absurd and pretty much the antithesis of winning hockey.



You are the one who keeps hammering on stats and points...for me, it has very little to do with it. The playoffs are waaay tighter and goal scoring is very difficult so it is not difficult to assume that a players ppg average during the playoffs will be lower.

The guy flung the puck away as soon as anyone got near him. If he did get it, he skated down the wing and chucked it towards the front of the net hoping it might get to his teammate, or not.

In reality, the stats are merely an afterthought of my arguement and it has absolutely everything to do with the way the guy played. It was flat embarrasing and if you couldn't see that, then like the other guy said, you and I watch a different game. Mind you, that became very apparent to me from your posts from the beginning.
What's the point of bashing Zherdev for 5 pages?? Did he sleep with your daughter??
The thread was supposed to be about him going to a new team.

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07-28-2009, 01:26 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by nyr1994 View Post
I have to admit he's pretty good @ stickhandling but why doesn't he take advantage of this??
He takes his weak little wrist shot all the way from the blue line that a goalie will get 9.9 times out of 10.
I personally wouldn't sign him for a penny over 3mil
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Well some of them had to work out then cause he had 58 points this year.

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Old
07-28-2009, 01:44 AM
  #114
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Just a tad bit small sample size, don't you think?

Do you crucify A-Rod and adore Jeter as well? There is no such thing as "clutch" or these conjectural moments where "it matters more," if he played enough games, his stats would easily regress to the mean. I'm sure that statement will warrant some old hat response, but it's reality.

I think two years is quite some time for a non-native speaker who was just drafted in the NHL. I can't respond because just like anyone else on this board, I'm not his teammate either, but there was no similar reports on him last year, albeit the typical Larry Brooks column.
I'm a Mets fan. But personally, I think Rodriguez gets a bad rap from Yankee fans. He's one of the top 3 players of this generation. I don't like him, cause of the whole steroids thing. But he's under-appreciated.

These two situations aren't even comparable, though. A-Rod's problems aren't due to a lack of effort.

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07-28-2009, 11:08 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
What's the point of bashing Zherdev for 5 pages?? Did he sleep with your daughter??
The thread was supposed to be about him going to a new team.
I suspect it is because hash, like myself, is a little tired of the assumption that "if you give him the right environment he'll thrive". It's not proven to be the case, and he has given no indication that he'll ever improve or be willing to improve.

He's really fun to watch when the pressure's off, but when you really need to win a game he's just not there, and it is incredibly frustrating. I'll watch him play wherever he goes... but I don't want him on my team anymore, because I just can't trust him.

(And that hurts to admit that, because I was really cheering for him early on. )

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07-28-2009, 11:32 AM
  #116
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He'd be okay in Pitts or on the Kings

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07-28-2009, 11:36 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by shanYeWest View Post
He'd be okay in Pitts or on the Kings
I love Nik Zherdev, we just have no room for him.. Unless he wants to play on the 3rd line with Handzus and Simmonds..?

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07-28-2009, 11:48 AM
  #118
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Uhh, where are you getting this ? Any one who has bothered to watch a Ranger game knows that Dubinsky is going no where. This isn't NHL 09
Anyone who has watched a Ranger game knows how overated Dubinski has become in the last month on these boards.

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07-28-2009, 01:40 PM
  #119
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i could see him going back to Columbus

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07-28-2009, 01:46 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
Anyone who has watched a Ranger game knows how overated Dubinski has become in the last month on these boards.
So overrated that people still can't spell Dubinsky properly. We'll see what he does this year, if he hovers around 40 pts centering the top line then I guess he really is a 40 pt player.


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On November 24, 2008, Dubinsky scored a Gordie Howe hat trick against the Phoenix Coyotes. He squared off against the Coyotes' tough guy Daniel Carcillo protecting the Rangers' netminder Henrik Lundqvist at 2:58 into the first, taking a 5 minute major for fighting. He then scored a wraparound goal 1 minute 15 seconds into the second period (which ended up being the game winner). Dubinsky then finished the 'Gordie' with an assist to Dan Girardi, who scored a power play goal from the blue line at 7:37 into the third period. The Rangers won the game 4-1 and Dubinsky along with Lundqvist and Zherdev were named the three stars. Ranger coach Tom Renney called the feat a "Gordie Orr hat trick" claiming that Dubinsky "didn't do that well in the fight"

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07-28-2009, 01:58 PM
  #121
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i missed something. did i spell Dubinski incorrectly?
as for his Gordie Howe hat-trick. i certainly did not say i dont like Dubinski as a player - there is lots to like and i would be happy to have him on my team.

i said in the last month on these boards he has become overrated. As in "he's untouchable" good - that's just silly.
He's a nice complementary player with a good two way game.

He's valuable to the Rangers especially since they are weak at center.
Its like Jersey fans that talk about Zajac like the second coming, its absurd. Again nice player but since when did 40 pt players become untouchable?

i think they are both good solid two way players. a career year for them (IMO) would probably be in the low 70pt range if they play top line minutes and top PP minutes with at least one star on their wing.

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07-28-2009, 02:36 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
i missed something. did i spell Dubinski incorrectly?
as for his Gordie Howe hat-trick. i certainly did not say i dont like Dubinski as a player - there is lots to like and i would be happy to have him on my team.

i said in the last month on these boards he has become overrated. As in "he's untouchable" good - that's just silly.
He's a nice complementary player with a good two way game.

He's valuable to the Rangers especially since they are weak at center.
Its like Jersey fans that talk about Zajac like the second coming, its absurd. Again nice player but since when did 40 pt players become untouchable?

i think they are both good solid two way players. a career year for them (IMO) would probably be in the low 70pt range if they play top line minutes and top PP minutes with at least one star on their wing.


Since there is a salary cap and the Rangers are so short down the middle? Pretty much makes Dubinsky untouchable unless he is garnering a top notch center in return (obviously in a package.)

Like you said, he is more valuable to us then anything else.

PS: It's Dubinsky.

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07-28-2009, 04:46 PM
  #123
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I see Mtl trade Plekanec for him.

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07-28-2009, 05:44 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
Your best players need to lead by example and show the rest of the team that they are willing to get their hands dirty. If the best players (mind you Zherdev was far from the rangers best player...leader in points, yes, but best player? joke...)show the muckers and grinders that they are willing to do those things, it makes EVERYONE buy in. Wow. Do I really need to explain this to you? Hollow numbers disappear when the games get tough, Zherdev proved that. Not sure why you would argue so adamently for a guy who does nothing put post empty numbers and disappear when the games are tough and physical. Nobody wants this type of guy on their team.
Zherdev puts up points when he has empty ice and the time and space...when the games get tougher in the second half of the season and playoffs, he disappears. It is his M.O. and anyone with a brain recognizes that this is not a guy you want to go into battle with. Sucks you cant' see it.
Can you please tell us who the Rangers best player(s) are/were? Because they're the ones you should be pissed at then. Last I looked, 60% of the top 10 playoff scorers will not return to the team, and a 7th isn't signed. I guess they were'nt the types of players you want on your team either.

I think I get it. Is that like Captain Valium going -3 in game 5 4-0 loss? Or no SOG in game 7? You know, I think you're on to something there. Dude, exchange any players name (Cough, Dreary, cough) wherever you wrote Zherdev above any it'll fit. No one on the Rangers had a good playoff. How can you say it's his M.O. when these were his first playoffs? Did you even follow him when he was in Columbus.

You described your beloved Captain Nyquil. Don't you see the irony?

It's hard to score from the bench. You guys are bashing Zherdev for a coaching decision. Did he deserve to play more, who the heck am I to say he should. My belief is that "you dance with the one that brung you." But I'll say it again, you can't expect production from from the bench.

Game ATOI
1 11.44
2 10.15
3 14.23
4 6.59
5 15.23
6 15.27
7 13.38

Arithmatic avg playing time 12.32 per game


You can't have it both ways. Had he played regular 1st/2nd line minutes you can cut him another one for not producing. If his performance was deemed so bad that he wa not given ice time, you have no right to expect production from him. You have every right to expect production from players getting the ice time. It's hypocritical!


Last edited by HoosierDaddy: 07-28-2009 at 05:58 PM.
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07-28-2009, 06:55 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by BruWINS View Post
i could see him going back to Columbus


...no.

I would expect Adam Foote to be welcomed back by mgmt first.

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