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Would Lafleur have been considered the greatest more if..

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Old
10-27-2004, 12:06 AM
  #51
jiggs 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I.am.ca
What about the fact that he had a goon playing on his line so no one would touch him.

Who can't score if they have that much space during those days?

I'll stick with Mario, yeah he is a big guy at 6'4'', but 6' isn't small either. If Gretz had no goon on his line, i'd like to see how his back and body would have held up.

No arguments that Gretzky is awesome unselfish player, but you have to realize that he had alot of guys watching his back on his own line, guys that would never be on a top line on any other team like Semenko.
Are you insane? If Gretz had had a real SCORER on his line instead of Cementhead, his scoring totals would have been 200 points higher! Dave Cementhead couldn't put the puck in the ocean off of a short pier! Had Gretzky had the kind of help Lafleur had (Steve Shutt-HOF'er, Lamaire-HOF'er, etc.) in his early years, he would have scored at least 200 more points n his career, and probably 70 more goals, which would put him at around 950 career goals. Mario doesn't even have 700, and he's getting close to Gretz in games played. His PPG has gone below Gretzky's (again) after his last few HORRIBLE seasons after retirement.

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10-27-2004, 09:50 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I.am.ca
What about the fact that he had a goon playing on his line so no one would touch him.
So, did that help his offensive totals, or hurt them? Semenko was notorious for blowing fantastic scoring chances.

Quote:
Who can't score if they have that much space during those days?
Gretzky would win scoring titles by 50-100 points... so the answer is only him.

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I'll stick with Mario, yeah he is a big guy at 6'4'', but 6' isn't small either. If Gretz had no goon on his line, i'd like to see how his back and body would have held up.
The fact is, that wasn't the case. He's scored well over 1000 more career points than Lemieux, played in more seasons, and didn't miss nearly as many games.

All these ifs and buts are wonderful, but in reality they are garbage. Gretzky's back was fine (until the Suter cross-check), and even after it he still had 8 NHL seasons, 7 of which were highly productive.

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No arguments that Gretzky is awesome unselfish player, but you have to realize that he had alot of guys watching his back on his own line, guys that would never be on a top line on any other team like Semenko.
You are acting as if Semenko was on his line for 10 years...

Tikkanen and Kurri routinely patrolled the wings with Gretzky in his last few years in Edmonton.

His linemates in L.A. didn't really invoke the fear of God in other players either.

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Old
10-27-2004, 10:27 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by jiggs 10
Are you insane? If Gretz had had a real SCORER on his line instead of Cementhead, his scoring totals would have been 200 points higher! Dave Cementhead couldn't put the puck in the ocean off of a short pier! Had Gretzky had the kind of help Lafleur had (Steve Shutt-HOF'er, Lamaire-HOF'er, etc.) in his early years, he would have scored at least 200 more points n his career, and probably 70 more goals, which would put him at around 950 career goals. Mario doesn't even have 700, and he's getting close to Gretz in games played. His PPG has gone below Gretzky's (again) after his last few HORRIBLE seasons after retirement.
WTF? Mario hasnt even played 900 games and hes getting close to gretzky who played about 1500 games? What an idiot! And Shutt benefited from Lafleur ok Lafleur didnt benefit from Shutt. Oh and Lemaire was a lot older then Lafleur was when Lafleur was in his prime so he wasnt exactly a great player that many people put him out to be at that time.

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10-27-2004, 10:35 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
WTF? Mario hasnt even played 900 games and hes getting close to gretzky who played about 1500 games? What an idiot! And Shutt benefited from Lafleur ok Lafleur didnt benefit from Shutt. Oh and Lemaire was a lot older then Lafleur was when Lafleur was in his prime so he wasnt exactly a great player that many people put him out to be at that time.
Lemaire developed into one of the best two way players in the game (in the mold of Modano, Yzerman,etc.). He retired right after winning the cup and having the best playoffs of his career. He was a great player, imo.

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10-27-2004, 10:37 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
WTF? Mario hasnt even played 900 games and hes getting close to gretzky who played about 1500 games? What an idiot! And Shutt benefited from Lafleur ok Lafleur didnt benefit from Shutt. Oh and Lemaire was a lot older then Lafleur was when Lafleur was in his prime so he wasnt exactly a great player that many people put him out to be at that time.
:lol

Man... getting close is not a word you should when describing the difference between Gretz and Lemiuex in terms of scoring goals... they are 211 apart, meaning Lemeiux would have to play 4 more seasons of 50goal/year hockey...

It isn't going to happen. If Lemeiux were to get close to Gretzky, his GP number would go up a lot higher to!

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Old
10-27-2004, 02:11 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
WTF? Mario hasnt even played 900 games and hes getting close to gretzky who played about 1500 games? What an idiot! And Shutt benefited from Lafleur ok Lafleur didnt benefit from Shutt. Oh and Lemaire was a lot older then Lafleur was when Lafleur was in his prime so he wasnt exactly a great player that many people put him out to be at that time.
It's not nice to call someone an idiot for expressing his opinion. If you can arbitrarily state who was and wasn't a good player to suit your argument, it's probably time to put this thread out of its misery.

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Old
10-27-2004, 02:35 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky
If you can arbitrarily state who was and wasn't a good player to suit your argument, it's probably time to put this thread out of its misery.

It's misery? How about our misery?

What "if's" are pointless.

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Old
10-27-2004, 03:58 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
WTF? Mario hasnt even played 900 games and hes getting close to gretzky who played about 1500 games? What an idiot! And Shutt benefited from Lafleur ok Lafleur didnt benefit from Shutt. Oh and Lemaire was a lot older then Lafleur was when Lafleur was in his prime so he wasnt exactly a great player that many people put him out to be at that time.
Actually, Shutt did help Lafleur quite a bit. Lafleur liked to leave the zone without the puck, a practice that coaches hate these days. Shutt stayed on th eboards took the safe outlet pass and head manned it to the center or a streaking Lafleur.The chemistry between the 2 helped both. Lafleur was a great passer and Shutt was a great finisher. In Lafleur's first 3 years, he bounced around on differnt lines, played some center. He played first first few breakout years with Peter Mahovlich. Peter hung onto th epuck a bit, but was a fine player nonetheless. Esp. underrated as a 2 way player and corner man. When Lemaire came into the league he was a pure shooter, somewhat like Richer. He bounced around from LW to ctr. until he eventually settled in between Lafleur and Shutt for their final years together. His last few years were the best he played. Chili's comparison is bang on, he was a tremendous 2 way player who understood the game as well as anyone.Strange actually, because he was considered quite a soft player early in his career. Gainey got the talk as the premier defensive player though Lemaire consistently controlled play and allowed Bowman to use them against offensive lines.

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Old
10-30-2004, 03:38 PM
  #59
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LaFleur was the best forward in the league from the mid to very late 70's, not too shabby, and what set him apart was his production in big games and late in those big games, a real go to guy. Those days Montreal RULED, and he was thier centerpiece. The habs would come here to Philly into the old Spectrum and during the pre-game skate would start going around their end of the ice, blue line to behind the net fast, faster, fastest.....amazing to watch all those BIG Montreal players moving that fast as a team, INTIMIDATING!
There are too many what-ifs.....Wat if Orr had two healthy knees?, what if Parent hadn't had neck surgery or that injured eye?, How about Mario's health challenges? They had their times, judge them on that., that's all there is.

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