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Brandon Dubinsky contract update 9/4 See Post #1071

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Old
07-31-2009, 02:30 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
Duby has no leverage. Only if someone offer sheets him will he get any leverage. Zherdev will get 3.875 and Duby will be signed with what's left over. The only thing after that to determine is if we can afford Gilroy on the backend.
His leverage is to whithold his services.

He has more than enough leverage as his agent can talk to any team out there and drum up all kinds of interest.

They can solicit bids offers from those teams but can only sine one offer-sheet

All it takes is one offer-sheet.

He is restricted in that he cannot freely sign with any team, but he can freely negotiate with any and every team.

The no leverage issue is so wrong it's not funny.

Most RFA's know that the retaining team will match so you don't see players signing offer-sheets often, but that doesn't mean that there's not a team out there that "could" be thinking the Rangers are up against the cap with the Z award and try to poach.

If Sather tries to force him into a one year QO offer, I would hope to god that Dubi and his agent seek an offersheet in the more realistc 2-2.5 long-term range.

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07-31-2009, 02:39 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
Take out Byers and put in Anisimov and you've got it nailed.
That would leave us with about 800k in cap room with no spares. We could have a lot of problems if we have injuries.

And it also makes the assumption that Gilroy will be in Hartford. If he earns the spot then he should get it, not be stuck in the AHL because he makes too much.

I'd rather just trade Zherdev for whatever we can get, fill out the rest of the roster with young guys and save some money for injuries.

The only other possibility is trading Rozy for a cheaper dman, but I don't see that happening at this point.

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Old
07-31-2009, 02:40 PM
  #53
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Brooks inadvertently leaked the fact that Dubi signing depends on Zherdev. I was saying that all alone and now the proof is about to show. I am positive that as soon as Zherdev signs under 4 million awarded he will go together with Rosy and player X to OTT for Heatley. That will free the cap space not only to sign Dubi, but to trade him for someone making much more. If Dubi considered to be traded he should never be signed prior to it, because the team he would be traded to should be able to get him under contract dirt cheap.
Hey, you're new, we are not Rangers, so we don't owe you anything for the previous season that, BTW, based on numbers, wasn't that good. Can Slats do that to Brandon? Absolutely. However if decision is made Dubi is our to keep, there is plenty of time to talk to him later, way after situation with Zherdev clears up and cap numbers will be current.
That is why he is not signed and will not be for at least another two weeks or so.

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07-31-2009, 02:41 PM
  #54
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In my opinion here is what is going to happen. We will have both Dubi and Zherdev and go with a small roster night in and night out since hartford is so close. My guess is probably 20 man roster every night. Remember calgary actually went with 19 after the deadline last year... Then we will see Lisin STARTING out the game on the 4th line. I stress starting because we know that Torts is always throwing players in the dog house and either not playing them at all or moving them to the 4th line. IMO when a player acts up Lisin takes their spot along with still running on the 4th line as seldom as they come out. I think this is perfect for torts because players are always going to have to work their ***** off because they know that they are just one lazy shift away from getting yanked. This is how he gets the most out of his players just as we've been told.

Starting lines:
Zherdev Dubi Gaborik
Higgins Drury Cally
Avery Anisimov Kotalik
Lisin Boyle Brashear

Lethal...

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07-31-2009, 02:43 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyko1827 View Post
Starting lines:
Zherdev Dubi Gaborik
Higgins Drury Cally
Avery Anisimov Kotalik
Lisin Boyle Brashear

Lethal...
lethal until it comes to defending against other teams top lines... Lisin Boyle Brash is not a checking line its a waste.

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07-31-2009, 02:46 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by ogie View Post
lethal until it comes to defending against other teams top lines... Lisin Boyle Brash is not a checking line its a waste.
A waste that will play 4-5 minutes a game just to have players on the ice watch their backs for brashear or have brashear mash someones face in

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07-31-2009, 02:47 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by ogie View Post
lethal until it comes to defending against other teams top lines... Lisin Boyle Brash is not a checking line its a waste.
The top 3 lines a put down are also good defenders for the most part and very very good skaters

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07-31-2009, 02:51 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyko1827 View Post
I
Starting lines:
Zherdev Dubi Gaborik
Higgins Drury Cally
Avery Anisimov Kotalik
Lisin Boyle Brashear

Lethal...
Zherdev is RW, he wont be good on other side. Kotalik can do that.

Kotalik-Drury-Gaborik
Avery-Dubinski-Zherdev
Higgins-Anisimov-Callahan
Byers/UFA- Boyle- Brashear
Lisin

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07-31-2009, 02:55 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Zherdev is RW, he wont be good on other side. Kotalik can do that.

Kotalik-Drury-Gaborik
Avery-Dubinski-Zherdev
Higgins-Anisimov-Callahan
Byers/UFA- Boyle- Brashear
Lisin
We can all speculate but we won't know until the season starts. And even when the season starts torts doesn't stick with lines for more than a game at a time haha. So this is basically pointless.

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07-31-2009, 03:05 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by kyko1827 View Post
We can all speculate but we won't know until the season starts. And even when the season starts torts doesn't stick with lines for more than a game at a time haha. So this is basically pointless.
True. But have you check the calendar? It's summer, man. Booooring....

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07-31-2009, 03:09 PM
  #61
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True. But have you check the calendar? It's summer, man. Booooring....
Haha i hear ya. Even more so since I'm a freshman to be in college only working three days a week at the beach. I'm living off NHL 09 on this crap*y days simulating through 08-09 and moving onto 09-10 in dynasty mode wheelin and deelin haha.

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Old
07-31-2009, 05:14 PM
  #62
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I think Drury gets first shot at centering Gaborik and Dubinksy will be signed... we can't just let him go and I think we're lucky that he hasn't signed an offer sheet.

Kotalik-Drury-Gaborik
Higgins-Dubinsky-Callahan
Avery-Anisimov-Lisin
Brashear-Boyle-Byers/PAP/???

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07-31-2009, 05:53 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by kyko1827 View Post
In my opinion here is what is going to happen. We will have both Dubi and Zherdev and go with a small roster night in and night out since hartford is so close. My guess is probably 20 man roster every night. Remember calgary actually went with 19 after the deadline last year... Then we will see Lisin STARTING out the game on the 4th line. I stress starting because we know that Torts is always throwing players in the dog house and either not playing them at all or moving them to the 4th line. IMO when a player acts up Lisin takes their spot along with still running on the 4th line as seldom as they come out. I think this is perfect for torts because players are always going to have to work their ***** off because they know that they are just one lazy shift away from getting yanked. This is how he gets the most out of his players just as we've been told.

Starting lines:
Zherdev Dubi Gaborik
Higgins Drury Cally
Avery Anisimov Kotalik
Lisin Boyle Brashear

Lethal...
First of all, that lineup isn't lethal. It's possibly a top 15 offense.

Second of all, the Flames only had 19 guys on the roster for a total of 15 games and guess what happened? They got knocked out in the first round. I'm sure the extra stress on their bodies was at least a contributing factor, if only minor.

Third of all, this needs to be beat into people's brains: the Rangers will not go into opening night with a 20 man roster and they will not go into opening night without at least the option of having Gilroy on the team. This means signing Z and Dubi means shedding salary somewhere else, like Rozy. If Rozy or Redden don't go, one of Z or Dubi will.

Lastly, thank you Larry for telling us that Dubinsky's contract agreement hasn't happened because of Zherdev's uncertain status. No one with half a shred of deductive reasoning could've figured that out for themselves. Does 1+1 also equal 2? Please tell me Mr. Brooks. I can't figure it out!

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Old
07-31-2009, 07:52 PM
  #64
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I agree 100% however, Neither Avery, Kotalik, Gaborik, Higgins, or Callahan will be moved to create room so if they do wish to keep Zherdev...does Lisin get moved to 4th line? Or in the Minors?
Maybe he gets dealt in a package...

He can't be sent to the minors, he signed a one-way contract. If they wanted him in the minors he would have to pass through waivers? Is that correct?

Either way, Zherdev is a higher priority then Lisin, and they are about the same age.

I really hope we can keep both Dubinsky and Zherdev.

I like our scoring depth with Zherdev in the lineup.

Drury, Higgins, Zherdev, Kotalik, Callahan are all 20 goal scorers.

Gaborik if healthy can put up 40+ goals.

We will have some good scoring depth if we can hold onto Zherdev, and use him properly. I feel he will have a ton of pressure off of him this year, not having to carry the offensive load. Gaborik is the primary scoring. Zherdev is a part of the secondary scoring. He will fit into that role very well.

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07-31-2009, 07:57 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
He can't be sent to the minors, he signed a one-way contract. If they wanted him in the minors he would have to pass through waivers? Is that correct?
The only thing that a one-way contract means is that he gets paid the same whether he is in the NHL or in the AHL.

Waivers follow different guidelines. I do think that Lisin might be waiver eligible, but the CBA is a difficult document for me to parse.


Last edited by Tawnos: 07-31-2009 at 08:06 PM.
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07-31-2009, 08:51 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Zherdev is RW, he wont be good on other side. Kotalik can do that.

Kotalik-Drury-Gaborik
Avery-Dubinski-Zherdev
Higgins-Anisimov-Callahan
Byers/UFA- Boyle- Brashear
Lisin
Except, Kotalik is not someone who sets up his linemates, his role is more to pull the trigger.

Higgins on the other hand, is someone who can do both. And grind and work hard to acquire the puck. Same with Dubinsky.

Zherdev is a guy who can set up his linemates.


Higgins - Dubinsky - Gaborik
Two hard working left-handers, who can create space for, and set up Gaborik.

Kotalik - Drury - Zherdev
Two right-handers who can set up the trigger man on the line (Kotalik). Not to mention Drury and Zherdev can score 20+ goals, too.

Lisin - Anisimov - Callahan
Three hard workers with underrated skill. Some good size on the line with Lisin and Anisimov. Good speed as well with Lisin and Callahan. Defensively responsible.

Avery - Boyle - Brashear
A line with a goon, a pest, and a big, strong center, and they would be a pain in the neck to play against 8 minutes/night.

Higgins - Dubinsky - Gaborik
Kotalik - Drury - Zherdev
Lisin - Anisimov - Callahan
Avery - Boyle - Brashear

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07-31-2009, 08:53 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
The only thing that a one-way contract means is that he gets paid the same whether he is in the NHL or in the AHL.

Waivers follow different guidelines. I do think that Lisin might be waiver eligible, but the CBA is a difficult document for me to parse.
Yeah, admittedly, i don't know enough of the little nuances about the CBA.

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Old
07-31-2009, 09:13 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
His leverage is to whithold his services.

He has more than enough leverage as his agent can talk to any team out there and drum up all kinds of interest.

They can solicit bids offers from those teams but can only sine one offer-sheet

All it takes is one offer-sheet.

He is restricted in that he cannot freely sign with any team, but he can freely negotiate with any and every team.

The no leverage issue is so wrong it's not funny.

Most RFA's know that the retaining team will match so you don't see players signing offer-sheets often, but that doesn't mean that there's not a team out there that "could" be thinking the Rangers are up against the cap with the Z award and try to poach.

If Sather tries to force him into a one year QO offer, I would hope to god that Dubi and his agent seek an offersheet in the more realistc 2-2.5 long-term range.
lol. let Dubinsky "withhold his services" then and he can sit while everyone else gets paid to play. so far no one's given him an offer sheet. he'd be stupid not to accept guaranteed money before the season starts. let him sit around waiting for an offer sheet that won't ever come.

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Old
07-31-2009, 09:22 PM
  #69
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Dubi is not going to get an offer sheet. I hate to say it but people make far too much out of the threat of offer sheets.

They just don't happen. Since this CBA took effect only five offer sheets have been extended. One of those offer sheets was just a hostile reaction to another. The Blues put out an offer sheet to Bernier after Vancouver extended one to Backes.

It's not going to happen. Not with the looming threat of a shrinking salary cap and not with the huge value that teams can potentially get out of their draft picks.

Good article on the subject: http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/..._tiger/?page=2

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Old
07-31-2009, 09:31 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
So why exactly are they waiting on the whole Zherdev arbitration anyways?

I mean if they sign Z they are not over the cap. I get that but they are allowed to go over and everyone knows they want to sign Dubinsky.

The only thing that makes sense is if they sign Z to a deal closer to what the want and then say to Dubinsky listen take this one year deal and next year we will make it good.

I doubt that works but who knows what Sather is thinking. Good thing is this will be all over soon

Because they want to see what Zherdev gets. There's not a whole lot of space to work with and I'm sure Slats wants to move him if possible.


More on Zherdev plus my suggestions for our lineup:

Waiting On Zherdev


Who will win? The Rangers who donít want to pay a penny less than the $3.25 qualifying offer or Zherdev, who demanded a much higher $4.5 million. Figure the reward to be somewhere in the middle for the 24 year-old right wing who despite disappearing down the stretch still tied for the club lead in scoring with 58 points (23-35-58).

Itís hard to justify the Russian enigma receiving more than say between 3.7 and 4. Given the Rangersí tight cap situation with Brandon Dubinsky still unsigned, itís unrealistic to envision Zherdev returning for a second year on Broadway. Especially considering how unproductive he was under more demanding coach John Tortorella, who he even hinted at in a recent interview as not trusting him enough. With how little the former Blue Jacket- who Glen Sather acquired last summer for Fedor Tyutin and Christian Backman- competed, would you send him out for every shift when he repeatedly lost battles while teammates busted it?

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07-31-2009, 11:35 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Kovy274Hart View Post
Because they want to see what Zherdev gets. There's not a whole lot of space to work with and I'm sure Slats wants to move him if possible.


More on Zherdev plus my suggestions for our lineup:

Waiting On Zherdev


Who will win? The Rangers who donít want to pay a penny less than the $3.25 qualifying offer or Zherdev, who demanded a much higher $4.5 million. Figure the reward to be somewhere in the middle for the 24 year-old right wing who despite disappearing down the stretch still tied for the club lead in scoring with 58 points (23-35-58).

Itís hard to justify the Russian enigma receiving more than say between 3.7 and 4. Given the Rangersí tight cap situation with Brandon Dubinsky still unsigned, itís unrealistic to envision Zherdev returning for a second year on Broadway. Especially considering how unproductive he was under more demanding coach John Tortorella, who he even hinted at in a recent interview as not trusting him enough. With how little the former Blue Jacket- who Glen Sather acquired last summer for Fedor Tyutin and Christian Backman- competed, would you send him out for every shift when he repeatedly lost battles while teammates busted it?
His linemates didn't necessarily 'bust it' when Tortorella took over.

If memory serves he playd a lot of minutes on the third line with offensively inept players and given terrible minutes in the process.

Zherdev is not just a guy who scores goals or can power through opposing players with size and strength. He isn't built like Malkin. He does not have the size. And although Zherdev doesn't crash the net with wreckless abandon, he does look for his linemates to do so and he looks to distribute the puck to them when they do.

I keep repeating this and it falls on deaf ears. Zherdev is not the guy to carry an offense by himself. He has all the skill in the world but he does't have the size and strength to bull his way through. And that is why he gets fancy with the puck. He gets even more fancy with the puck when he has garbage as his linemates. You can't put a guy with Zherdev's vision, passing ability, and overall skill with a bunch of fringe 3rd and 4th line players.

You also can't expect him to be a grinder. That is not the kind of player he is. If he were just used properly, and that is the coach's job; to evaluate talent and put them in their proper roles, if he were just used properly it wouldn't be an issue. If people stopped expecting him to be what they want him to be and instead accepted him for what he is and put him in that role as a part of a secondary scoring unit, then he would be fine. 58 points out of your secondary players AKA your second line is fantastic depth.

Zherdev needs a regular shift, with guys who how to play the offensive side of the game, and he will be fine. He isn't a crash and grind type? Then putting one of those kinds of players on his line wouldn't hurt. But make sure you also have a guy who can skate, shoot, and play on the line as well.

I don't know why it is so difficult for people to evaluate how to properly use individual players.

Again, Tortorella is a fine coach, but he let's himself get in his own way. Instead of evaluating a situation and deploying a solution and maximizing that players' ability by putting him in a role that works for that player, therefore increasing your teams' efficiency, what Tortorella does is act irrationally and benches the player, leaving the team with a short bench and then whines that the players get tired... it's laughable.

Zherdev would be fantastic on this team now that it has a player like Gaborik to handle the primary scoring role. It also has more depth offensively with guys like Higgins and Kotalik. Zherdev would be able to quietly put up 50-60 points on the second line and second Power Play unit.

However, people want to bring up his ethnicicity as if it matters one way or the other, and simply hate on the guy without rational thought or reason.

Sign him. Use him properly. He would be fantastic in the secondary role.

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08-01-2009, 06:02 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovy274Hart View Post
Because they want to see what Zherdev gets. There's not a whole lot of space to work with and I'm sure Slats wants to move him if possible.


More on Zherdev plus my suggestions for our lineup:

Waiting On Zherdev


Who will win? The Rangers who don’t want to pay a penny less than the $3.25 qualifying offer or Zherdev, who demanded a much higher $4.5 million. Figure the reward to be somewhere in the middle for the 24 year-old right wing who despite disappearing down the stretch still tied for the club lead in scoring with 58 points (23-35-58).

It’s hard to justify the Russian enigma receiving more than say between 3.7 and 4. Given the Rangers’ tight cap situation with Brandon Dubinsky still unsigned, it’s unrealistic to envision Zherdev returning for a second year on Broadway. Especially considering how unproductive he was under more demanding coach John Tortorella, who he even hinted at in a recent interview as not trusting him enough. With how little the former Blue Jacket- who Glen Sather acquired last summer for Fedor Tyutin and Christian Backman- competed, would you send him out for every shift when he repeatedly lost battles while teammates busted it?
Ok out of curiosity isin't this considered advertising?
anyway you might wanna fix up that first sentence

"The rangers who don't want to pay a penny less than the $3.25million"

I think you mean don't want to pay a penny more otherwise we wouldn't be at arbitration

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Old
08-01-2009, 07:25 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Again, Tortorella is a fine coach, but he let's himself get in his own way. Instead of evaluating a situation and deploying a solution and maximizing that players' ability by putting him in a role that works for that player, therefore increasing your teams' efficiency, what Tortorella does is act irrationally and benches the player, leaving the team with a short bench and then whines that the players get tired... it's laughable.
I tend to agree (that game where Tortorella refused to use Zherdev in the ShoutOut puzzled me to say the least). but I'm not too sure Torts is one to modify his ways.

"Tort's type of guy" has been overused to the point that it's sometimes used facetiously, but Zherdev may be, in fact, a bonfide "not a Tort's type of guy".

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08-01-2009, 07:30 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by kyko1827 View Post
In my opinion here is what is going to happen. We will have both Dubi and Zherdev and go with a small roster night in and night out since hartford is so close. My guess is probably 20 man roster every night. Remember calgary actually went with 19 after the deadline last year... Then we will see Lisin STARTING out the game on the 4th line. I stress starting because we know that Torts is always throwing players in the dog house and either not playing them at all or moving them to the 4th line. IMO when a player acts up Lisin takes their spot along with still running on the 4th line as seldom as they come out. I think this is perfect for torts because players are always going to have to work their ***** off because they know that they are just one lazy shift away from getting yanked. This is how he gets the most out of his players just as we've been told.

Starting lines:
Zherdev Dubi Gaborik
Higgins Drury Cally
Avery Anisimov Kotalik
Lisin Boyle Brashear

Lethal...
Hartford and MSG are only close when both teams are at home or close to home. Both the AHL and NHL sprawl over a wide geographic area and there will be many times when the two teams will be far apart....to far to recall a player if there is an immediate need: for an example if a player is hurt during the morning skate, wakes up after a game sore and unable to go that night but is a game time decision, or comes down sick during the day. I'll say what I've said before: the Rangers were unbelievably fortunate when it came to injuries last year. Odds are it will not happen again. it is imperative that carry at least one extra player on D.

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Old
08-01-2009, 08:02 AM
  #75
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I do agree I like those forward lines.

I guess it just seems a waste if Lisin is on the 4th line. Thing is they could always use Avery more on the PK and 4th line and then throughout the game bring him up

I will laugh if after the arbitration Sather is like we love the kid and never wanted to let him go

has anyone really heard anything from Ranger managment on this. Its all the media saying he is a goner

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