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Taking a look back at 25 years worth of Habs prospect top 10 lists

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Old
07-13-2009, 02:39 PM
  #51
TinordiandSubban
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2010 Top Prospects


1-Yannick Weber - overshadowed by Subbanator's media spotlight but better all round game
2-PK Subban - explosive rookie season in the AHL
3-Ben Maxwell - better than PPG and runs a deadly Dogs PP
4-Louis LeBlanc - better than expected as NCAA freshman
5-Mathieu Carle-slipping behind Subby and Webby but still solid prospect
6-Ryan White-hard work is paying off, leading PK and big hitter
7-David Fischer-bulked up and refocused, leads Gophers to title
8-Danny Kristo-strong freshmen year with UND
9-Mac Bennett-has an all star season in the USHL
10-Petteri Simila-outstanding first year in the OHL

honourable mentions: Stesjkal, Nattinen, Pateryn, Engqvist, Avtsyn, Trotter

graduations: Pacioretty, D'Agostini, Stewart, Chipchura, O'Byrne

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Old
08-02-2009, 12:02 AM
  #52
Habsfan18
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Take a look at our 1st round picks from 1986-1998.

1986 - Mark Pederson
1987 - Andrew Cassels
1988 - Eric Charron
1989 - Lindsay Vallis
1990 - Turner Stevenson
1991 - Brent Bilodeau
1992 - David Wilkie
1993 - Saku Koivu
1994 - Brad Brown
1995 - Terry Ryan
1996 - Matt Higgins
1997 - Jason Ward
1998 - Eric Chouinard

Guys in bold are/were the only NHL'ers out of the bunch. Ouch.

It makes you wonder, what the hell was wrong with our development system? Many of the players were legitimate 1st round talents at the time..they just ended up as complete busts. Was it just bad luck??

3 guys that especially come to mind when you think "what could have been" are Vallis, Bilodeau, and Ryan. What the hell happened?

I read that Vallis lacked motivation, so I guess that could be the reason he busted. Brent Bilodeau was once touted as a top pick for the '91 draft but he slipped to us. He was described as being a perfect fit for our team at that time. And Terry Ryan, man oh man.. He could have been something special. I remember my uncle telling me at that time he was going to be a special player for us for a long time.

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Old
08-02-2009, 12:43 AM
  #53
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i don't understand how latendresse was rated above andrei kostitsyn. I don't remember anyone ever thinking he had more talent than A.K. And i'm a lats fan.

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Old
08-02-2009, 01:31 AM
  #54
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Wow 2005 and up are just money...

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Old
08-02-2009, 04:44 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
Take a look at our 1st round picks from 1986-1998.

1986 - Mark Pederson
1987 - Andrew Cassels
1988 - Eric Charron
1989 - Lindsay Vallis
1990 - Turner Stevenson
1991 - Brent Bilodeau
1992 - David Wilkie
1993 - Saku Koivu
1994 - Brad Brown
1995 - Terry Ryan
1996 - Matt Higgins
1997 - Jason Ward
1998 - Eric Chouinard

Guys in bold are/were the only NHL'ers out of the bunch. Ouch.
Ward has had 336 NHL games so far, including over 200 games for teams other than us. (Brown has had 330 btw.) I think Ward qualifies as a NHLer, though still very disappointing for a first round pick.

But I do think that you are correct to point to our first round drafting in the nineties. (And please don't go look at our 1999 draft, it'll make you cry.) Our first round drafting was almost uniformly bad and failed to provide the organization with the assets needed to build a team. It took most of this decade to re-build that organizational strength.

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Old
08-02-2009, 05:35 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
even in 1999 that prospect pool was considered crap. Its not like it was a shock that pretty much all of those players busted. They were mostly considered duds from the time they were drafted.
Man - no reason to make stuff up.

Duds from the time they were drafted?

The three biggest busts on the list were the prospects who were highly touted in Chouinard, Higgins, and Ryan. Ward, as far as potential goes, was also a bust (even though he's enjoyed a lengthy NHL career). They were our four most highly touted prospects of the 10 and registered just 491 games between them with 336 of those games belonging to Ward.

The 1999 group wasn't THAT bad either. Between the 10 players - they've played in a total of 2318 games or 232 games each. That number is still growing and will hit at least 3,000 barring a major turning point which would bring us to 300 games a piece. It just looks really bad because we had four 1st round busts.

The prospects that weren't as highly touted are the ones who have enjoyed lengthy NHL careers. Andrei Markov (6th round - 571 games), Mike Ribeiro (2nd round - 515 games), and Jose Theodore (2nd round - 501 games).

Miroslav Guren only played 36 games for the Canadiens - but he enjoyed a decent 6-year career in the RSL, including one season with CSKA Moscow. There were some excellent players picked behind him though.

The only player of that top-10 to not play at least 5 NHL games was Ilkka Mikkola who suited up for 0-games. But he's a solid defenseman who has enjoyed an above average career in the Finnish League. It appears to me like he had zero interest in the NHL.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Flambergius View Post
Ward has had 336 NHL games so far, including over 200 games for teams other than us. (Brown has had 330 btw.) I think Ward qualifies as a NHLer, though still very disappointing for a first round pick.

But I do think that you are correct to point to our first round drafting in the nineties. (And please don't go look at our 1999 draft, it'll make you cry.) Our first round drafting was almost uniformly bad and failed to provide the organization with the assets needed to build a team. It took most of this decade to re-build that organizational strength.
Pederson and Charron also both played well over 100 games.

Pederson played with four NHL teams (San Jose, Montreal, Detroit, and Philadelphia). He scored over 0.5 PPG and even managed to put up a season, over a full year, he was on pace for 58 points (40 points in 58 games) while scoring 15 goals.

Charron also played for four NHL clubs (Washington, Montreal, Calary, and Tampa Bay).

Both were NHL players (with over 300 GP - including playoffs) - just very disappointing.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 08-02-2009 at 06:03 PM.
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Old
08-02-2009, 10:09 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
i don't understand how latendresse was rated above andrei kostitsyn. I don't remember anyone ever thinking he had more talent than A.K. And i'm a lats fan.
I know that ISS had Latendresse at 3rd overall in their 2004 Draft guide, it was on the last page, they did a top 15 for '05,

1 Crosby
2 Bergfors
3 Latendresse
4 Kindl
5 Brule
6 Zagrapan
7 J Johnson
8 Blunden
9 O'Marra
10 Kopitar
11 Durrand
12 Churlov
13 Mielonen
14 Rask
15 Korhonen

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Old
08-02-2009, 05:42 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
I know that ISS had Latendresse at 3rd overall in their 2004 Draft guide, it was on the last page, they did a top 15 for '05,

1 Crosby
2 Bergfors
3 Latendresse
4 Kindl
5 Brule
6 Zagrapan
7 J Johnson
8 Blunden
9 O'Marra
10 Kopitar
11 Durrand
12 Churlov
13 Mielonen
14 Rask
15 Korhonen
What an horrible, horrible top 15.

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Old
08-02-2009, 06:24 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
I know that ISS had Latendresse at 3rd overall in their 2004 Draft guide, it was on the last page, they did a top 15 for '05,

1 Crosby
2 Bergfors
3 Latendresse
4 Kindl
5 Brule
6 Zagrapan
7 J Johnson
8 Blunden
9 O'Marra
10 Kopitar
11 Durrand
12 Churlov
13 Mielonen
14 Rask
15 Korhonen
Latendresse was awesome in the Q on a very average Drummondville team.
At 18 years old he put 83 points including 43goals in 51 games, missing 21 games. It is fair to say that he would have scored 50+goals and put 100+points on a full season.

Latendresse has above average hands,shots and accuracy.

He slipped at the draft because of the injury he suffered during the season that year.

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Old
08-02-2009, 08:06 PM
  #60
Habsfan18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flambergius View Post
Ward has had 336 NHL games so far, including over 200 games for teams other than us. (Brown has had 330 btw.) I think Ward qualifies as a NHLer, though still very disappointing for a first round pick.

But I do think that you are correct to point to our first round drafting in the nineties. (And please don't go look at our 1999 draft, it'll make you cry.) Our first round drafting was almost uniformly bad and failed to provide the organization with the assets needed to build a team. It took most of this decade to re-build that organizational strength.
I meant to bold Ward but I guess I forgot to when I made my post.

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Old
08-02-2009, 08:08 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Viau View Post
What an horrible, horrible top 15.
latendresse > price

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Old
08-02-2009, 09:08 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
latendresse > price
Latendresse > Ryan

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Old
08-02-2009, 09:56 PM
  #63
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Latendresse > Ryan
Well done

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Old
10-11-2009, 01:37 PM
  #64
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Just a little bump so others can check it out if they missed the thread.

I was reminded of it from reading another old issue.

On Brisebois in a '89 draft early look article: Smart defensively and never makes mistakes in his own end. An early candidate for 1st overall.

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Old
10-11-2009, 01:57 PM
  #65
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compare 2009 to 1999. what a difference.
Oh really? What have the 2009 guys done for us?

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Old
10-11-2009, 02:11 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post

2003:

1.Alexander Perezhogin
2.Ron Hainsey
3.Chris Higgins
4.Mike Komisarek
5.Mathieu Garon
6.Jozef Balej
7.Duncan Milroy
8.Tomas Plekanec
9.Michael Ryder
10.Konstantin Korneev
I miss Perezhogin. He was a good two-way player with nice speed and balance. I think he'd fit in nicely with this team right now.

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Old
10-11-2009, 03:49 PM
  #67
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I miss Perezhogin. He was a good two-way player with nice speed and balance. I think he'd fit in nicely with this team right now.
Ya he could probably be busting like A.Kost.

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Old
10-11-2009, 09:29 PM
  #68
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Oh really? What have the 2009 guys done for us?
Nothing yet that's why they're the 2009 top 10 PROSPECTS

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Old
10-11-2009, 09:40 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
compare 2009 to 1999. what a difference.
I'm pretty sure many people thought the 1999 group would be good at that time. Who knows... in 10 years, we'll maybe say the same thing about 2009 and how good 2019 will be.

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Old
10-11-2009, 10:02 PM
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Who knows... in 10 years, we'll maybe say the same thing about 2009 and how good 2019 will be.
This is true.

Every fanbase hypes up their prospect pool. It's just what we do.

If HF Boards existed around the times of Terry Ryan, Brent Bilodeau, Lindsay Vallis etc.. I'm sure we'd be really excited about them and calling them future stars.

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10-11-2009, 10:04 PM
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I'm pretty sure many people thought the 1999 group would be good at that time. Who knows... in 10 years, we'll maybe say the same thing about 2009 and how good 2019 will be.
There was excitement for that group, and rightfully so. Three of the ten wound up playing in the All-Star game. Now Theodore's had a fall from grace, but Ribeiro and Markov are still exceptional talents. Garon's a strong back-up who's had a few guest-spots in starter roles.

Ryan by that point was considered a bust-in-the-making. And because of that, there was skepticism regarding Ward. Chouinard was still intriguing--especially since he played some NHL games around that point and was also in the world juniors, but his lackadaisical attitude and comparisons to Turgeon (who was always respected, but never a fan favourite) made many question his potential to meet expectations.

I personally liked Mikkola a lot, but no one ever hyped him much or felt he'd be anything more than a depth defenseman.

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10-11-2009, 10:34 PM
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Ya he could probably be busting like A.Kost.
Nah he had a work ethic unlike A.Kost and his sibling.

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Old
10-11-2009, 10:55 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
This is true.

Every fanbase hypes up their prospect pool. It's just what we do.

If HF Boards existed around the times of Terry Ryan, Brent Bilodeau, Lindsay Vallis etc.. I'm sure we'd be really excited about them and calling them future stars.
In all honesty, so does the head scout who also hypes up his prospect pool and which is also pretty normal 'cause he's who they pick. So most people in here goes with what they are seeing, add the comments made by a guy view as one of the best in the business, and have no choice in hyping their prospect pool.

When you hear stuff like that, you are in no position to not overhype them. A Timmins comment on McDonagh.

"He's very mature, he's well along in his physical development, and his skating is topnotch," Timmins said. "I don't think you'll see him too long at the university level before he turns pro. He's there physically; he just needs to be able to play the game at a higher level."

Even in Fischer's case, while Timmins was pretty clear as far as having to be patient you read comments when he was picked, by Timmins saying how's he a true leader, really competitive, that he's tall, with great speed, fast and agile and how he'll be perfect for this new NHL. And that's he's also really mature. You read that description and you have the feeling that you've drafted the best d-men of them all. So again, as fans we need to see beyond that. We need to reevaluate but we will always have on the back of our minds what the head scout would have told us.

Now that I've been doing a lot of researches by myself for the past 10 to 15 years and especially more since Timmins and Gainey came on board, I just choose to disregard those comments completely. Not because I like or dislike them but because it's completely irrelevant as to how a player will develop. Who cares what he is if he's unable to progress and if he had already reached his upside. Add to the fact that I have some concerns about Timmins decisions based on what he said to me and if everybody would take all the time in the world to make their own decisions, well we might not be overhyping our prospects the way we do. But then, it's not everybody who might have the time to do so.

And in the end, it might also not be that logical after all. You feel in love with players and like for a woman, maybe not always for the good reasons. Same with the hate. I hated Ryan White's development and rookie camps.....all of them. While I knew he would be a better player in game situations, I still decided to take those camps into a high consideration. Now, he's still not in the NHL, but he already proved to me a lot more than what I thought he would. I loved Korpikari, thought he looked just as great if not better than O'Byrne....he's not in the NHL yet isn't he? I loved Mikus, he got a try with LA, not even sure if he succeeded in lacing his skates....and so on. So overhyping also comes with the fact that as human beings, we are not machines. And our love and hate sometimes goes beyong the logical thing to do. Add the fact that we are seeing this as "amateurs" and you have the perfect recipe to overhype.

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Old
10-11-2009, 11:34 PM
  #74
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Mmmm

From 89 to 03 we had prospects such as :

Markov, Schneider, Theodore, Koivu, Ribeiro, Cassels, Leclair, Brisebois, Rivet, Vokoun...

In 03 we have :

Kostitsyn X 2, Price, Plekanec, Latendresse, Lapierre, Halak, Higgins, Komisarek

Now it's still early but if anyone turns out like Schneider or Markov I'll be extremly surprised and until that happens, you can't possibly herald the last few years of drafting as anything but middle of the pack drafting of average players.

S. Savard got a lot more homeruns with lower drafting spots. Even Houle got some decent players with Markov, Ribeiro. I haven't seen any homeruns from Timmins yet or anything that looks like it minus maybe Price, but that was a top 5 pick and goalies are really fickle.

But yeah, so far, there is really nothing to be impressed about at all. I honestly don't understand what all of you are so happy about.

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Old
10-12-2009, 12:11 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Mmmm

From 89 to 03 we had prospects such as :

Markov, Schneider, Theodore, Koivu, Ribeiro, Cassels, Leclair, Brisebois, Rivet, Vokoun...

In 03 we have :

Kostitsyn X 2, Price, Plekanec, Latendresse, Lapierre, Halak, Higgins, Komisarek

Now it's still early but if anyone turns out like Schneider or Markov I'll be extremly surprised and until that happens, you can't possibly herald the last few years of drafting as anything but middle of the pack drafting of average players.

S. Savard got a lot more homeruns with lower drafting spots. Even Houle got some decent players with Markov, Ribeiro. I haven't seen any homeruns from Timmins yet or anything that looks like it minus maybe Price, but that was a top 5 pick and goalies are really fickle.

But yeah, so far, there is really nothing to be impressed about at all. I honestly don't understand what all of you are so happy about.
You're taking 14 years of fully developed players to 5-6 years of players in the 18-24 range. Hardly fair, even with your caveat.

I'll say that Streit might have a similar impact as Schneider, though, and that Price is a legitimate starting netminder--something those previous 14 years of drafting struggled to produce outside of a couple of seasons of Theodore.

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