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Brandon Dubinsky contract update 9/4 See Post #1071

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Old
08-01-2009, 01:04 PM
  #76
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Lisin must clear waivers

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08-01-2009, 03:10 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
His linemates didn't necessarily 'bust it' when Tortorella took over.

If memory serves he playd a lot of minutes on the third line with offensively inept players and given terrible minutes in the process.

Zherdev is not just a guy who scores goals or can power through opposing players with size and strength. He isn't built like Malkin. He does not have the size. And although Zherdev doesn't crash the net with wreckless abandon, he does look for his linemates to do so and he looks to distribute the puck to them when they do.

I keep repeating this and it falls on deaf ears. Zherdev is not the guy to carry an offense by himself. He has all the skill in the world but he does't have the size and strength to bull his way through. And that is why he gets fancy with the puck. He gets even more fancy with the puck when he has garbage as his linemates. You can't put a guy with Zherdev's vision, passing ability, and overall skill with a bunch of fringe 3rd and 4th line players.

You also can't expect him to be a grinder. That is not the kind of player he is. If he were just used properly, and that is the coach's job; to evaluate talent and put them in their proper roles, if he were just used properly it wouldn't be an issue. If people stopped expecting him to be what they want him to be and instead accepted him for what he is and put him in that role as a part of a secondary scoring unit, then he would be fine. 58 points out of your secondary players AKA your second line is fantastic depth.

Zherdev needs a regular shift, with guys who how to play the offensive side of the game, and he will be fine. He isn't a crash and grind type? Then putting one of those kinds of players on his line wouldn't hurt. But make sure you also have a guy who can skate, shoot, and play on the line as well.

I don't know why it is so difficult for people to evaluate how to properly use individual players.

Again, Tortorella is a fine coach, but he let's himself get in his own way. Instead of evaluating a situation and deploying a solution and maximizing that players' ability by putting him in a role that works for that player, therefore increasing your teams' efficiency, what Tortorella does is act irrationally and benches the player, leaving the team with a short bench and then whines that the players get tired... it's laughable.

Zherdev would be fantastic on this team now that it has a player like Gaborik to handle the primary scoring role. It also has more depth offensively with guys like Higgins and Kotalik. Zherdev would be able to quietly put up 50-60 points on the second line and second Power Play unit.

However, people want to bring up his ethnicicity as if it matters one way or the other, and simply hate on the guy without rational thought or reason.

Sign him. Use him properly. He would be fantastic in the secondary role.
Like how he was fantastic on Columbus with Rick Nash?

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08-01-2009, 03:16 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
His linemates didn't necessarily 'bust it' when Tortorella took over.

If memory serves he playd a lot of minutes on the third line with offensively inept players and given terrible minutes in the process.

Zherdev is not just a guy who scores goals or can power through opposing players with size and strength. He isn't built like Malkin. He does not have the size. And although Zherdev doesn't crash the net with wreckless abandon, he does look for his linemates to do so and he looks to distribute the puck to them when they do.

I keep repeating this and it falls on deaf ears. Zherdev is not the guy to carry an offense by himself. He has all the skill in the world but he does't have the size and strength to bull his way through. And that is why he gets fancy with the puck. He gets even more fancy with the puck when he has garbage as his linemates. You can't put a guy with Zherdev's vision, passing ability, and overall skill with a bunch of fringe 3rd and 4th line players.

You also can't expect him to be a grinder. That is not the kind of player he is. If he were just used properly, and that is the coach's job; to evaluate talent and put them in their proper roles, if he were just used properly it wouldn't be an issue. If people stopped expecting him to be what they want him to be and instead accepted him for what he is and put him in that role as a part of a secondary scoring unit, then he would be fine. 58 points out of your secondary players AKA your second line is fantastic depth.

Zherdev needs a regular shift, with guys who how to play the offensive side of the game, and he will be fine. He isn't a crash and grind type? Then putting one of those kinds of players on his line wouldn't hurt. But make sure you also have a guy who can skate, shoot, and play on the line as well.

I don't know why it is so difficult for people to evaluate how to properly use individual players.

Again, Tortorella is a fine coach, but he let's himself get in his own way. Instead of evaluating a situation and deploying a solution and maximizing that players' ability by putting him in a role that works for that player, therefore increasing your teams' efficiency, what Tortorella does is act irrationally and benches the player, leaving the team with a short bench and then whines that the players get tired... it's laughable.

Zherdev would be fantastic on this team now that it has a player like Gaborik to handle the primary scoring role. It also has more depth offensively with guys like Higgins and Kotalik. Zherdev would be able to quietly put up 50-60 points on the second line and second Power Play unit.

However, people want to bring up his ethnicicity as if it matters one way or the other, and simply hate on the guy without rational thought or reason.

Sign him. Use him properly. He would be fantastic in the secondary role.

If they hadn't wasted money on Kotalik, I'd say keep him. But that's not what the organization decided which speaks volumes about Zherdev. He went from a fantastic start to a complete dud the second half. Do your homework. He flat out disappeared and was invisible in the playoffs sealing his fate. Sadly, one big game would've been enough to avoid losing to the Caps. He couldn't even bother to show.

Why should they bring that type of player back for a high price? He isn't worth the headaches. And the Kovalev comparisons are off. Kovy at least shows in the playoffs and can take a hit to make a play. Zherdev is a wuss who skates away from contact. Not the kind of player Tort wants around.

Other players compete. If we want to be good, we can't have guys that float. Are you a Zherdev fan or a Ranger fan?


Aside from that, they have a complete roster already with Anisimov ready and Grachev knocking on the door. Unless they make a trade, there isn't any room for Zherdev.

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Old
08-01-2009, 03:59 PM
  #79
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Like how he was fantastic on Columbus with Rick Nash?
You don't consider 60 pts on the 2nd line fantastic? I'd call that pretty darn good.

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08-01-2009, 04:45 PM
  #80
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You don't consider 60 pts on the 2nd line fantastic? I'd call that pretty darn good.
Oh I definitely think its good, and Nik is a great talent, but there's something wrong here if the Blue Jackets and Rangers don't want him.

Stats aren't everything.

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08-02-2009, 05:09 PM
  #81
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I bet 40 of those 58 points were pretty meaningless and not game changing.

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08-02-2009, 05:22 PM
  #82
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I bet 40 of those 58 points were pretty meaningless and not game changing.
Rangers were 14-6 in games he scored. 8 of his 23 goals were in games the Rangers won by 1 goal.

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Old
08-02-2009, 05:22 PM
  #83
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Like how he was fantastic on Columbus with Rick Nash?
26 goals 61 points... 2nd on the team and a whopping 8 points less then Nash.

27 goals 54 points... TIED in points with Nash for 2nd on the team. While being a year younger then Nash.

That's what he did 2 of the 4 years he was in Columbus.

Oh yeah, and he lead the Rangers in points last year.

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08-02-2009, 05:26 PM
  #84
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He thrives on mediocre teams?

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08-02-2009, 05:29 PM
  #85
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He thrives on mediocre teams?
He can't control the state of the roster.


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Old
08-02-2009, 07:55 PM
  #86
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You don't consider 60 pts on the 2nd line fantastic? I'd call that pretty darn good.
Especially considering the thinned out talent level that team had.

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Old
08-03-2009, 04:07 AM
  #87
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Group II center Brandon Dubinsky more likely than not will sign a two-year deal in the $1.3-$1.7M range per.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/08032009...day_182708.htm

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Old
08-03-2009, 04:13 AM
  #88
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$1.7 million is in the neighborhood of what Ryan Kesler received in a two year deal with VAN.Overhardt represents both players.Kesler got $1.75 million per for 2 years.

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08-03-2009, 04:19 AM
  #89
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$1.7mill

jeez

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08-03-2009, 04:59 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by ImmortalRanger View Post
$1.7mill

jeez
Help?

$1.7 million is cheap considering what Ryan Callahan signed for and Dubinsky would be giving up an arbitration year to make more than his QO in the first year of the contract.

Help?


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Old
08-03-2009, 05:44 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Help?

$1.7 million is cheap considering what Ryan Callahan signed for and Dubinsky would be giving up an arbitration year to make more than his QO in the first year of the contract.

Help?

Yes help ,what exactly did dubinsky do to demand that much?

He was first place in slumps of the year?

at least callahan was a forceful pain in the ass to the opposition night in and night out.

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08-03-2009, 06:06 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by ImmortalRanger View Post
Yes help ,what exactly did dubinsky do to demand that much?

He was first place in slumps of the year?

at least callahan was a forceful pain in the ass to the opposition night in and night out.
Look at the numbers for both players.

The only reason Dubinsky has not signed the contract that Callahan got is Dubinsky was a 1 younger when he signed his first NHL contract and not eligible for salary arbitration.

If the Rangers have to give more in the first season to pay less in the second season,where is the problem?

In case of you haven't been paying attention,salary arbitration is a friend of the NHLPA.

Would you rather have the arbitrator award Dubinsky $2.5-$3 million next season? Travis Zajac is making $2.75 million this season. Zherdev was awarded $3.9 million for recording less points than in his previous season and not showing up in the playoffs. The Rangers training and equipment staff did not have to wash Zherdev's stuff or dry his equipment.

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Old
08-03-2009, 06:10 AM
  #93
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$1.75/year million for Dubi on a two year contract would be very good.

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08-03-2009, 07:18 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by ImmortalRanger View Post
Yes help ,what exactly did dubinsky do to demand that much?

He was first place in slumps of the year?

at least callahan was a forceful pain in the ass to the opposition night in and night out.
IF Dubinsky bounces back... much like Travis Zajac did (the oft compared) than $1.7m would be a steal.

I understand what you're saying, though, IMMORTAL RANGER. If we had offered a contract like that to Zajac LAST season, most of us would be calling for Lou's head. Thing is, Dubinsky is a different mold. Not many people doubt his ability to become a good player.

I don't blame you for thinking $1.7m is too much, but in a way your hoping to cash in on future success by giving him this contract now. Kind of like how Parise is making only $3.1m this year - thats amazing. Dubinsky won't be like Parise, but as a Ranger fan you hope to get a similar situation. Treat them nice now, and you hope they blossom into great players and they remember.

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08-03-2009, 07:50 AM
  #95
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Dubinsky will be asked to be a top 2 line centerman this year--possible he even centers Gaborik. It may be that your top line center if he manages that and does a good job and his numbers spike upwards will be No. 14 in compensation on a 20 man roster and if he goes towards the bottom of Brooks' salary projection will be paid less than Donald Brashear.

Slumps last year or not--Zherdev had slumps too particularly at the worst possible time of all--down the stretch into the playoffs. Drury had huge slumps. It took him close to a dozen games at the start of the season to score a goal. He went through a stretch of 15-16 games in Feb-March (?) without a goal.

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08-03-2009, 08:16 AM
  #96
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1.7 for Dubinsky is too much? Callahan is somehow worth 2.3 in his career year - his potential is maxed out. Dubinsky has far greater upside.

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08-03-2009, 08:24 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post

Oh yeah, and he lead the Rangers in points last year.

I mean, that's kinda like being the smartest idiot isn't it?

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Old
08-03-2009, 08:28 AM
  #98
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Quote:
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1.7 for Dubinsky is too much? Callahan is somehow worth 2.3 in his career year - his potential is maxed out. Dubinsky has far greater upside.
Oh my ass
that statement is almost as overused as "go with youth forget the vets"

What makes you think callahan is "maxed out" he's still in his mid 20's he had a GOOD sophmore year(considered anyway) unlike every other rookie we've had the past few years and the guy has not let us down since game 1 in prague...hell since the victoria cup.

Same goes for dubinsky but he hasen't shown improvement since jagr left.

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08-03-2009, 08:29 AM
  #99
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1.7 for Dubinsky is too much? Callahan is somehow worth 2.3 in his career year - his potential is maxed out. Dubinsky has far greater upside.
He does, but why are the two comparable? Callahan is older and has leverage. Dubinsky has to take what he can get. Its not quite but almost like comparing an RFA contract to a UFA contract, you can't do it.

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Old
08-03-2009, 08:33 AM
  #100
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2 years/1.5 per would be a great deal for Dubinsky at this point in time.

If we handed him a one year deal, we'd just wind up overpaying next season through arbitration. If Gaborik stays healthy and Torts sticks to a Gabby/Dubinsky tandem, I think we easily see 60 points from Doobie.

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