HFBoards Goal scoring 2009-10 season, WHO and How many ???
 Register FAQ Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
 Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
 Notices Los Angeles Kings Prospects: Tanner Pearson, LW» Valentin Zykov, RW» Brayden McNabb, D» All

# Goal scoring 2009-10 season, WHO and How many ???

07-24-2009, 05:24 PM
#51
PSP
Couldn't Be Happier!

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lake Forest, CA
Country:
Posts: 4,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8 This is the most ridiculous argument I have ever seen. Do you not understand the concept that 30 goals is a meaningless standard? The fact is that whether they pass a totally arbitrary marker is irrelevant, as long as they have similar production (+/- 2-3 goals), you can say that it was similar goal production. Is that really a hard concept? Or are you just being difficult like so often Oh wait, you have to be the board pessimist. As least Captain Ron uses logic and sometimes sees the light.
Do you realize that I wasn't the one who set the parameters?

If you use specific terms in your arguments like "statistically significant", you better be willing to back them up - I'm guessing that you haven't had enough math to justify your statement. Are they statistically significant? It's not worth doing the math to satisfy someone who wouldn't know the difference anyway, but +/- 3 goals is 10% of the total - chances are that it is statistically significant.

I'm stating facts - you're giving opinions. Learn the difference.

07-24-2009, 05:33 PM
#52
LAX attack*

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Danger Zone
Country:
Posts: 14,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
 Originally Posted by PSP Do you realize that I wasn't the one who set the parameters? If you use specific terms in your arguments like "statistically significant", you better be willing to back them up - I'm guessing that you haven't had enough math to justify your statement. Are they statistically significant? It's not worth doing the math to satisfy someone who wouldn't know the difference anyway, but +/- 3 goals is 10% of the total - chances are that it is statistically significant. I'm stating facts - you're giving opinions. Learn the difference.
Tell me this. Would you say there is a big difference between someone scoring 29 goals and someone scoring 30 goals? That is only a 3% difference in goal scoring. 3%. When you are talking about roughly 220 goals being scored, that 1 goal is .4% of a difference. I can safely say that having a 29 goal scorer vs. having a 30 goal scorer, all other things being equal of course, will make no difference to your club.

Therefore, we can say that the arbitrary number of a "30 goal scorer" is pretty irrelevant, rather, we can talk about 30-ish goal scorers (IE players that score anywhere from 28-32 goals). That is the only really meaningful way to talk about it.

07-24-2009, 05:45 PM
#53
DapperDan

Join Date: May 2008
Location: place
Country:
Posts: 2,922
vCash: 500
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8 Tell me this. Would you say there is a big difference between someone scoring 29 goals and someone scoring 30 goals? That is only a 3% difference in goal scoring. 3%. When you are talking about roughly 220 goals being scored, that 1 goal is .4% of a difference. I can safely say that having a 29 goal scorer vs. having a 30 goal scorer, all other things being equal of course, will make no difference to your club. Therefore, we can say that the arbitrary number of a "30 goal scorer" is pretty irrelevant, rather, we can talk about 30-ish goal scorers (IE players that score anywhere from 28-32 goals). That is the only really meaningful way to talk about it.
But 27 is only one goal away from 28!

07-24-2009, 05:47 PM
#54
LAX attack*

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Danger Zone
Country:
Posts: 14,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
 Originally Posted by DapperDan But 27 is only one goal away from 28!
That's why it is pretty stupid to talk about there only being a certain amount of 20, 30, etc. goal scorers in the NHL. Because any sort of number we throw out there is totally irrelevant and arbitrary (why is 30 any more of a "milestone" than 29? Because it ends in a 0?"). Also, other premises in this thread are stupid. You have to look at a team holistically in order to actually make any real predictions. Looking at a team player by player is ludicrous

07-24-2009, 05:47 PM
#55
Captain Ron
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Gardnerville, NV
Country:
Posts: 17,409
vCash: 500
Quote:
 Originally Posted by DapperDan But 27 is only one goal away from 28!
Well as long as we are estimating I think a guy who scores 25 goals should be considered a 30 goal scorer....I mean it's only 5 goals.

07-24-2009, 05:51 PM
#56
DapperDan

Join Date: May 2008
Location: place
Country:
Posts: 2,922
vCash: 500
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Captain Ron Well as long as we are estimating I think a guy who scores 25 goals should be considered a 30 goal scorer....I mean it's only 5 goals.
Why stop there? 22 goals is just as good. I mean it's only one Calder away from 30...

07-24-2009, 05:57 PM
#57
Captain Ron
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Gardnerville, NV
Country:
Posts: 17,409
vCash: 500
Quote:
 Originally Posted by DapperDan Why stop there? 22 goals is just as good. I mean it's only one Calder away from 30...
So, basically what you are saying is that there were really 101 players who were 30 goal scorers last season......I think it is all becoming clear now.

 07-24-2009, 06:05 PM #58 Jwm1986 Registered User     Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Los Angeles Country: Posts: 1,894 vCash: 500 Kopitar will hit 30 this year....Its all but guaranteed. Remember how bad he played at the beginning of the season?? I remember him having like 4-5 goals in the first 25 games of the season and he still nearly hit 30....I think he gets close to 40
 07-24-2009, 06:08 PM #59 PSP Couldn't Be Happier!     Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lake Forest, CA Country: Posts: 4,293 vCash: 500 Try running your "one goal is arbitrary and irrelevant" theory by the Florida Panthers - I think they might disagree
07-24-2009, 06:22 PM
#60
Puck U
2012 SC CHAMPIONS !

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Apple Valley, CA.
Country:
Posts: 8,340
vCash: 500
Quote:
 Originally Posted by PSP 4 - 30 goal scorers DET PHI 3 - 30 goal scorers WAS 2 - 30 goal scorers ANA ATL CGY NJD OTT PIT SAN STL 1 - 30 goal scorer BOS BUF CAR CLB DAL FLA PHX TAM VAN CHI NAS LAK and 7 teams with no 30 goal scorers
I carried it out just a tad further ... but did show if a player was CLOSE to a 20 goal scorer
and being that we're mainly conserned with being one of the Playoff teams, used them as my guideline ...

2008-09 Play Off Teams
===================
WEST
San Jose Sharks
#12 Patrick Marleau 38g
#16 Devin Setoguchi 31g
#19 Joe Thornton 25g
#8 Joe Pavelski 25g
#9 Milan Michalek 23g
#29 Ryane Clowe 22g
(6 @ 20+ ; 2 @ 30+ ; 0 @ 40+)

Detriot Red Wings
#81 Marian Hossa 40g
#93 Johan Franzen 34g
#13 Pavel Datsyuk 32g
#40 Henrik Zetterberg 31g
#26 Jiri Hudler 23g
#37 Mikael Samuelsson 19g *close to 6th player
(5 @ 20+ ; 4 @ 30+ ; 1 @ 40+)

Vancouver Canucks
#22 Daniel Sedin 31g
#14 Alexandre Burrows 28g
#17 Ryan Kesler 26g
#33 Henrik Sedin 22g
#38 Pavol Demitra 20g
#42 Kyle Wellwood 18g *
(5 @ 20+ ; 1 @ 30+ ; 0 @ 40+)

Chicago Blackhawks
#19 Jonathan Toews 34g
#24 Martin Havlat 29g
#10 Patrick Sharp 26g
#88 Patrick Kane 25g
#32 Kris Versteeg 22g
#36 Dave Bolland 19g *
(5 @ 20+ ; 1 @ 30+ ; 0 @ 40+)

Calgary Flames
#13 Mike Cammalleri 39g
#12 Jarome Iginla 35g
#21 Olli Jokinen 29g
#22 Daymond Langkow 21g
#17 Rene Bourque 21g
#25 David Moss 20g
(6 @ 20+ ; 2 @ 30+ ; 0 @ 40+)

St Louis Blues
#42 David Backes 31g
#7 Keith Tkachuk 25g
#21 Patrik Berglund 21g
(4 @ 20+ ; 2 @ 30+ ; 0 @ 40+)

Columbus Blue Jackets
#61 Rick Nash 40g
#18 R.J. Umberger 26g
#20 Kristian Huselius 21g
#29 Jason Williams 19g *
(3 @ 20+ ; 1 @ 30+ ; 1 @ 40+)

Anaheim Ducks
#10 Corey Perry 32g
#9 Bobby Ryan 31g
#8 Teemu Selanne 27g
#15 Ryan Getzlaf 25g
(4 @ 20+ ; 2 @ 30+ ; 0 @ 40+)

EAST
Boston Bruins
#81 Philip Kessel 36g
#73 Michael Ryder 27g
#91 Marc Savard 25g
#28 Mark Recchi 23g
#46 David Krejci 22g
#12 Chuck Kobasew 21g
#26 Blake Wheeler 21g
#33 Zdeno Chara 19g *
#17 Milan Lucic 17g *
(7 @ 20+ ; 1 @ 30+ ; 0 @ 40+)

Washington Capitals
#8 Alex Ovechkin 56g
#28 Alexander Semin 34g
#52 Mike Green 31g
#21 Brooks Laich 23g
#19 Nicklas Backstrom 22g
#14 Tomas Fleischmann 19g *
(5 @ 20+ ; 3 @ 30+ ; 1 @ 40+ ; 1 @ 50+)

New Jersey Devils
#9 Zach Parise 45g
#26 Patrik Elias 31g
#15 Jamie Langenbrunner 29g
#19 Travis Zajac 20g
#14 Brian Gionta 20g
#23 David Clarkson 17g *
(5 @ 20+ ; 2 @ 30+ ; 1 @ 40+)

Pittsburgh Penguins
#71 Evgeni Malkin 35g
#87 Sidney Crosby 33g
#17 Petr Sykora 25g
#14 Chris Kunitz 23g
#11 Jordan Staal 22g
#13 Bill Guerin 21g
#81 Miroslav Satan 17g *
(6 @ 20+ ; 2 @ 30+ ; 0 @ 40+)

#17 Jeff Carter 46g
#12 Simon Gagne 34g
#19 Scott Hartnell 30g
#18 Mike Richards 30g
#22 Mike Knuble 27g
#15 Joffrey Lupul 25g
(6 @ 20+ ; 4 @ 30+ ; 1 @ 40+)

Carolina Hurricanes
#12 Eric Staal 40g
#15 Tuomo Ruutu 26g
#13 Ray Whitney 24g
#8 Matt Cullen 22g
#26 Erik Cole 18g *
(4 @ 20+ ; 1 @ 30+ ; 1 @ 40+)

New York Rangers
#80 Nik Antropov 28g
#91 Markus Naslund 24g
#13 Nikolai Zherdev 23g
#23 Chris Drury 22g
#24 Ryan Callahan 22g
(5 @ 20+ ; 0 @ 30+ ; 0 @ 40+)

#27 Alex Kovalev 26g
#46 Andrei Kostitsyn 23g
#14 Tomas Plekanec 20g
#20 Robert Lang 18g *
(3 @ 20+ ; 0 @ 30+ ; 0 @ 40+)

 07-24-2009, 06:46 PM #61 aegwillnotwinthecup*   Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Las Vegas, NV Country: Posts: 4,392 vCash: 500 The thing is, this team has the realistic potential to have four 30 goal scorers next year: Kopitar, Frolov, Williams, and Brown. All those guys are young enough and not far removed from previous 30 goal seasons in which they played with less talented linemates. I understand the realist point of view. Not many teams have two 30 goal scorers, much less four. But you can't deny that if everything clicks, and the injury bug leaves the team relatively healthy, we could see a goal scoring explosion next year with these top four guys. Smyth, in my opinion, is good for 20 but a little too old to realistically think he could put up 30 again. Stoll, despite his one flash in the pan 68 point year, has yet to be that same offensive dynamo after his concussion issues. However, he would have cracked 20 last year if it wasn't for the groin injury at the end of the season. He put up his best numbers since the concussion last season, actually, which is certainly promising. Things I see different with the top four guys, though: Kopitar: he's going to start the season in shape; this will be huge for him. Frolov: contract year; enough said. Brown: no premature births this year, as long as he doesn't knock up his wife again. Williams: he's going into his first season healthy since his last big year in 06/07, minus any fluke injury this summer Also, toward the end of last year a lot of broadcasters were commenting on how in sync the Frolov-Kopitar-Williams line looked. That line has so much ridiculous potential it's disgusting.
 07-24-2009, 08:44 PM #62 LAX attack*   Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Danger Zone Country: Posts: 14,543 vCash: 500 Sorry, a Rough graph, but a graph that indicates that 10-20 goal scorers were responsible for the majority of our scoring. But the difference was only 1 goal compared to 20-30 goal scorers. See, the NHL average was that most of the goals were scored by 10-20 goal scorers. So I think that the kings need to A) get 1 more 30 goal scorer and B) improve 10-20 goal scoring
 07-24-2009, 09:33 PM #63 PSP Couldn't Be Happier!     Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lake Forest, CA Country: Posts: 4,293 vCash: 500 What is the left side of each graph?
07-24-2009, 09:39 PM
#64
LAX attack*

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Danger Zone
Country:
Posts: 14,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
 Originally Posted by PSP What is the left side of each graph?
The Left is the total number of goals scored

I probably should have made this clearer, but the X-axis is the segmented 40+ goal scorers, 30-40, 20-30, 10-20, 0-10 (the metrics for the NHL graph vs. the kings graph are different, the Kings graph is 30+, 20-30, 10-20, 0-10), and the Y-Axis is the amount of goals scored. Probably not a good line graph, in fact. I will put bar graphs instead, I dont think a line graph is the correct way to put it at all.

Last edited by LAX attack*: 07-24-2009 at 09:45 PM.

07-24-2009, 09:46 PM
#65
HFB Partner

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: OC
Country:
Posts: 11,917
vCash: 500
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8 The Left is the total number of goals scored I probably should have made this clearer, but the X-axis is the segmented 40+ goal scorers, 30-40, 20-30, 10-20, 0-10 (the metrics for the NHL graph vs. the kings graph are different, the Kings graph is 30+, 20-30, 10-20, 0-10), and the Y-Axis is the amount of goals scored. Probably not a good line graph, in fact. I will put bar graphs instead, I dont think a line graph is the correct way to put it at all.
Try it in spanish.

 07-25-2009, 01:46 AM #66 KopitarFAN Reno Sucks!     Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lost Wages, NV Country: Posts: 9,788 vCash: 500 i'm gonna say, Frolov: 36 Goals Kopitar: 31 Goals Brown: 27 Goals Smyth: 24 Goals Williams: 22 Goals(If healthy) Stoll: 18 Goals Handzus: 17 Goals Simmonds: 15 Goals Purcell: 12 Goals Ivanans: 1 Goal Lewis: 3 Goals Richardson: 1 Goal D-Men: Doughty: 11 Goals Johnson: 14 Goals Scuderi: 1 Goal Greene: 1 Goal OD: 0 Goals Drewiske: 1 Goal Harrold: 3 Goals 238 Goals
 08-02-2009, 04:01 PM #67 Telos Moderator In Dean We Trust     Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Reno, NV Country: Posts: 26,977 vCash: 424 Frolov: 35 Kopitar: 32 Brown: 29 Smyth: 27 Williams: 26 Stoll: 24 Handzus: 22 Simmonds: 11 __________________ “We still have a lot of guys who haven't scored a goal since Jesus was a baby.” - Darryl Sutter
 08-02-2009, 04:43 PM #68 KopitarFAN Reno Sucks!     Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lost Wages, NV Country: Posts: 9,788 vCash: 500 Frolov: 36 Kopitar: 31 Brown: 26 Smyth: 24 Williams: 22 Stoll: 19 Handzus: 17 Simmonds: 14 Purcell: 12 Lewis: 5 Richardson: 3 Ivanans: 2 Johnson: 15 Doughty: 11 Harrold: 5 Greene: 1 Scuderi: 1 O'Donnell: 0 Drewiske: 0 244 Goals
 08-02-2009, 06:04 PM #69 LA Kings Cup Champs Registered User     Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: KINGS of Hockey Country: Posts: 1,558 vCash: 500 Just a little OT stat...http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm...wName=goalsFor We definitely need more scoring to make the playoffs this year. Conversely, our 5 on 5 scoring most improve the most if we are to have a chance in hell at doing anything remotely good this year.
 08-02-2009, 07:11 PM #70 Jwm1986 Registered User     Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Los Angeles Country: Posts: 1,894 vCash: 500 we just did this didnt we?? why must we do the same things over and over again
08-02-2009, 07:59 PM
#71
Puck U
2012 SC CHAMPIONS !

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Apple Valley, CA.
Country:
Posts: 8,340
vCash: 500
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Jwm1986 we just did this didnt we?? why must we do the same things over and over again
YES well ... http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=666439 ... it got pushed ALL the way back to page 2 you know, and I guess the search feature was broken for this guy ?

08-02-2009, 08:32 PM
#72
ugotmybeef*

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: LA BABY!!
Country:
Posts: 8,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
 Originally Posted by TeamPlayer What are your predictions for the upcoming season for each player on this team For GOALS ONLY?
Did you go to every team and post this thread.

08-02-2009, 08:35 PM
#73
LA Kings Cup Champs
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: KINGS of Hockey
Country:
Posts: 1,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
 Originally Posted by ugotmybeef Did you go to every team and post this thread.
Well...his name ain't TeamPlayer for nothing

sorry, my bad. I couldn't resist

Forum Jump