HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Dallas and Montreal

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-02-2009, 03:44 PM
  #1
Stephaaane
Registered User
 
Stephaaane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 167
vCash: 500
Dallas and Montreal

First proposal, ready to get flamed

ok here we go

To Dallas: Hamrlik
Plekanec
D'agostini's rights

To Montreal: Brad Richards
Mark Fistric

Dallas deadly needs a top 2 defenceman to go with Robidas, Daley, Niskanen

Montreal,.... very solid 2nd line center and a stay at home defenceman that could, could be the partner of Markov

Stephaaane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2009, 03:51 PM
  #2
Zubrus Coffee Maker
Blinded by my Zubrus
 
Zubrus Coffee Maker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cobourg, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,387
vCash: 500
dallas would not do that

Zubrus Coffee Maker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2009, 03:57 PM
  #3
Chaos
3, 2, 1
 
Chaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 7,786
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Chaos
So Dallas trades their #2 center and pretty much their most physical d-man for an aging d-man thats not a top pairing guy, a guy coming off a big time down year, and a spare part prospect?

__________________
Chaos is always right.

-Vagrant
Chaos is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2009, 04:02 PM
  #4
DuckEatinShark
GET ALL THE PPs!!!!
 
DuckEatinShark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Jose
Posts: 5,462
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephaaane View Post
First proposal, ready to get flamed

ok here we go

To Dallas: Hamrlik
Plekanec
D'agostini's rights

To Montreal: Brad Richards
Mark Fistric

Dallas deadly needs a top 2 defenceman to go with Robidas, Daley, Niskanen

Montreal,.... very solid 2nd line center and a stay at home defenceman that could, could be the partner of Markov
That's a lot of money tied up between Gomez and Richards although I'm not sure how much cap space Montreal has.

Dallas though, would definitely not do this deal. D'agostini's rights are worthless and they will not downgrade from Richards to Plekanec. Plus, they seem to really like Fistric.

DuckEatinShark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2009, 04:14 PM
  #5
One Man Rock Band
T-Ross!!
 
One Man Rock Band's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Habville
Country: Canada
Posts: 45,602
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
So Dallas trades their #2 center and pretty much their most physical d-man for an aging d-man thats not a top pairing guy, a guy coming off a big time down year, and a spare part prospect?
I agree the trade isn't really a good proposal - but D'Agostini is far from a spare part prospect.

We, the Canadiens nation, have ranked him as our #6 prospect - though I might slide him into the Top-5.

He was on pace to score 19-goals as rookie whilst playing half of his shifts with the likes of Gregory Stewart, Georges Laraque, among others.

He needs some work on his defensive positioning. But he puts forth a lot of effort so it should come to him with a more defensive minded coach.

He's got a super long reach, he'll crash the net, he's got decent vision for a winger, and he's got a great shot. I could see him scoring 30-goals down the road. To me - he's a Michael Ryder with a bigger body and more effort.

One Man Rock Band is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2009, 04:19 PM
  #6
mcphllp
Dion @ 6.5=Discount
 
mcphllp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,066
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
I agree the trade isn't really a good proposal - but D'Agostini is far from a spare part prospect.

We, the Canadiens nation, have ranked him as our #6 prospect - though I might slide him into the Top-5.

He was on pace to score 19-goals as rookie whilst playing half of his shifts with the likes of Gregory Stewart, Georges Laraque, among others.

He needs some work on his defensive positioning. But he puts forth a lot of effort so it should come to him with a more defensive minded coach.

He's got a super long reach, he'll crash the net, he's got decent vision for a winger, and he's got a great shot. I could see him scoring 30-goals down the road. To me - he's a Michael Ryder with a bigger body and more effort.

Oh wow, Top 6 prospect? Geesh, thats pretty high!

Terrible deal, how does this deal give Dallas a top 2 dman? As I dont see one in there

mcphllp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2009, 04:25 PM
  #7
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
I'd rather go for Steve Ott personally.

Habsterix* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2009, 04:43 PM
  #8
mstad101
Registered User
 
mstad101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,208
vCash: 500
im pretty sure if Montreal wants Richards. itll take LeBlanc to start. Possibly some 1st pick. and a Decent scoring forward.

Altho Dallas didnt get Huge production from Brad last year, he was really good Vet leadership for them. A Healthy year could see him back above the 60 point range. Which will really help what was a Goal starved Stars team last year.

mstad101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2009, 04:47 PM
  #9
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstad101 View Post
im pretty sure if Montreal wants Richards. itll take LeBlanc to start. Possibly some 1st pick. and a Decent scoring forward.

Altho Dallas didnt get Huge production from Brad last year, he was really good Vet leadership for them. A Healthy year could see him back above the 60 point range. Which will really help what was a Goal starved Stars team last year.
We already have a 60 points man at over $7 million. No thanks.

Habsterix* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2009, 04:56 PM
  #10
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,758
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephaaane View Post
First proposal, ready to get flamed

ok here we go

To Dallas: Hamrlik
Plekanec
D'agostini's rights

To Montreal: Brad Richards
Mark Fistric
I would pass from the Habs POV. I think we already have Gomez, and while Richards is a better player, it's too much money already on guys who aren't real superstar players. If the Stars want Gomez and something for Richards, then we'll talk...

But seriously, Hamrlik is once again being underrated in this deal. He's our #2 defenseman until and unless Spacek proves otherwise. That's an important asset on a team. Put that along with our incumbent #2 center in Plekanec, and I don't think you're replacing the impact of those two roles by bringing in Richards. This 2-for-1 does not make the Habs a better team. Even if it gives them the most glamourous player in the deal.

Blind Gardien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2009, 05:34 PM
  #11
mgeise
Registered User
 
mgeise's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Buffalo
Country: United States
Posts: 3,614
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephaaane View Post
First proposal, ready to get flamed

ok here we go

To Dallas: Hamrlik
Plekanec
D'agostini's rights

To Montreal: Brad Richards
Mark Fistric

Dallas deadly needs a top 2 defenceman to go with Robidas, Daley, Niskanen

Montreal,.... very solid 2nd line center and a stay at home defenceman that could, could be the partner of Markov
Dallas gets completely ripped. No matter how much Brad Richards gets paid, they would never do that deal. Montreal might not do it either, as that would be a ton of money tied up in the center position long term. The value coming back to Montreal is substantialy higher than going Dallas' way, though.

mgeise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2009, 09:01 PM
  #12
glovesave_35
Name
 
glovesave_35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Korea
Country: United States
Posts: 15,659
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I would pass from the Habs POV. I think we already have Gomez, and while Richards is a better player, it's too much money already on guys who aren't real superstar players. If the Stars want Gomez and something for Richards, then we'll talk...

But seriously, Hamrlik is once again being underrated in this deal. He's our #2 defenseman until and unless Spacek proves otherwise. That's an important asset on a team. Put that along with our incumbent #2 center in Plekanec, and I don't think you're replacing the impact of those two roles by bringing in Richards. This 2-for-1 does not make the Habs a better team. Even if it gives them the most glamourous player in the deal.

Gomez for Richards must be a joke? Richards is the better overpaid player, and the Conn Smythe winner.

How can I say this nicely...Just because a player may be your team's #2 d-man doesn't mean he IS a #2 d-man. Nor does it mean he would be another team's #2. One thing is for certain though, he is paid like a #2 d-man. I'm also looking at the fact that he is a career -60 during the regular season, even though he has scored 564 pts. Even worse, his career postseason +/- is a horrid -34 YIKES! What's worse, is that in 11 different playoff years he has only ever been a plus player once (+1 in 3 games 98-99), and was even once in 03-04. All the rest are minuses. Hamrlik isn't really a Stars type player. I know I'm basing much of my argument on statistics, but even when I've seen him play I've never come away particularly impressed. Should I mention that he makes about as much as Dallas' entire d-corps combined?

glovesave_35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2009, 09:17 PM
  #13
Analyzer
#WeAreBoston
 
Analyzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Renfrew, ON.
Country: Canada
Posts: 42,300
vCash: 500
Can Mark Fistric make a first good pass, be solid defensively while putting up around 30 points, be a leader and eat up a ton of minutes a game ? Since one of the Dallas fans said he,s physical, that's good, now if he can do the other stuff, I'm definitely up for it. If he can't, then no deal as it would not be wise for Montréal to give up their number 2 d and have no one to fill his shoes.

Montréal also can't really do Richards' salary.

Analyzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2009, 09:42 PM
  #14
beowulf
Poster of the Year!
 
beowulf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 37,206
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to beowulf
So two of the most overpaid centers in Montreal? Ya that is a good idea.

beowulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2009, 09:06 AM
  #15
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,758
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Gomez for Richards must be a joke? Richards is the better overpaid player, and the Conn Smythe winner.
Did you see the smilie?
Quote:
How can I say this nicely...Just because a player may be your team's #2 d-man doesn't mean he IS a #2 d-man. Nor does it mean he would be another team's #2.
I think it depends on which Hamrlik shows up. The first year we had him after signing him, he was almost anybody's #2. Probably #1 in the current Dallas setup. Last season he came back to earth and was more like a decent #3 guy for most teams who wanted to feel competitive. I don't really think he has that 2007-08 season left in him again, but hey, who knows. If he does, he's our #2 and again an easy #2 for most teams in the league. If he doesn't, he's probably #3 behind Spacek. If he's starting the Big Decline and is even worse than last season, well, that would be worrisome, but he's probably still #3 for us.

At any rate, it's still big minutes in a big role on the team, and probably worth much more to us than the upgrade from Plekanec to Richards. It just wouldn't be a sensible deal from a Habs POV. Stars fans are very welcome to similarly disregard it.

Blind Gardien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2009, 09:24 AM
  #16
Mustafa*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Martinique
Posts: 3,407
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Did you see the smilie?
I think it depends on which Hamrlik shows up. The first year we had him after signing him, he was almost anybody's #2. Probably #1 in the current Dallas setup. Last season he came back to earth and was more like a decent #3 guy for most teams who wanted to feel competitive. I don't really think he has that 2007-08 season left in him again, but hey, who knows. If he does, he's our #2 and again an easy #2 for most teams in the league. If he doesn't, he's probably #3 behind Spacek. If he's starting the Big Decline and is even worse than last season, well, that would be worrisome, but he's probably still #3 for us.

At any rate, it's still big minutes in a big role on the team, and probably worth much more to us than the upgrade from Plekanec to Richards. It just wouldn't be a sensible deal from a Habs POV. Stars fans are very welcome to similarly disregard it.
Hammer showed up in the playoffs, he was brilliant in the first half of the season also. When the story on him broke he became a average 3rd guy. If he plays like he's hable to, he would be a top 2 on most teams (Except the Philies, Detroit, Boston, Flames and other crazy stacked defensive teams.)

Mustafa* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2009, 12:11 PM
  #17
piqued
Global Moderator
anyone order a dman?
 
piqued's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dallas
Country: United States
Posts: 31,641
vCash: 131
This trade is doubly funny when you consider that one of the original sticking points in acquiring Richards was that Tampa wanted Fistric included in the deal and Dallas wouldn't concede him and eventually got their way.

piqued is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2009, 02:33 PM
  #18
ck26
Free Raptor Reagan
 
ck26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Coyotes Bandwagon
Country: United States
Posts: 7,156
vCash: 297
I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding amongst out-of-town fans about the Stars and Brad Richards.

Yes, he makes more money than his production would suggest he's worth. But no, that's not reason to give him away for free, and no, it doesn't mean he has a net zero or negative value.

Richards is a very good player at a superstar price. Contrast that with Jason Blake, who is a below-average player for a very good player price.

An expensive, lousy vet on a rebuilding team = zero-to-negative value ... trade him for anything, just to move him off the roster, save the cash and get some sort of asset in return.
A super-expensive, very good vet on a contending team = significant value ... don't trade him unless we're getting one hell of a return.

Most of the deals I see involving Richards in this forum over the last couple weeks don't give us a legit center back, leaving us a huge hole on the second line. It's one thing to not pay attention to the Islanders' specific needs or the Leafs' specific needs when they're trading to get younger (because they both need basically everything), but the Stars? A year removed from the western finals? Trading Richards in return for a middling defenseman or a couple of average prospects? Not in a million years.

ck26 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2009, 02:48 PM
  #19
habsfans333*
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Mali
Posts: 1,470
vCash: 500
Jussi Jokinen, Jeff Halpern and Mike Smith? That was the deal?

Don't expect much more than that kind of package for a 7.8 millions centre averaging 60pts.

habsfans333* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2009, 03:02 PM
  #20
Prendan Brust
Registered User
 
Prendan Brust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,514
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Gomez for Richards must be a joke? Richards is the better overpaid player, and the Conn Smythe winner.

How can I say this nicely...Just because a player may be your team's #2 d-man doesn't mean he IS a #2 d-man. Nor does it mean he would be another team's #2. One thing is for certain though, he is paid like a #2 d-man. I'm also looking at the fact that he is a career -60 during the regular season, even though he has scored 564 pts. Even worse, his career postseason +/- is a horrid -34 YIKES! What's worse, is that in 11 different playoff years he has only ever been a plus player once (+1 in 3 games 98-99), and was even once in 03-04. All the rest are minuses. Hamrlik isn't really a Stars type player. I know I'm basing much of my argument on statistics, but even when I've seen him play I've never come away particularly impressed. Should I mention that he makes about as much as Dallas' entire d-corps combined?
About your career -60 point :

He has been a minus player ONCE in the last ten years. His minus 60 comes from the first few years he played in TB, a HORRIBLE team at the time.

Prendan Brust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2009, 03:05 PM
  #21
Dirty Kari
Registered User
 
Dirty Kari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Arlington, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 1,796
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfans333 View Post
Jussi Jokinen, Jeff Halpern and Mike Smith? That was the deal?

Don't expect much more than that kind of package for a 7.8 millions centre averaging 60pts.
You don't like looking at games played do you. Richards averages 70+ points and more importantly has 62 points in 63 playoff games. He is a 6 million dollar player getting payed 7.8. He is overpaid but he has significant value. Interesting a habs fan would say this considering how much you payed for Gomez who is an slightly more inferior player at a similar price.

Dirty Kari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2009, 03:10 PM
  #22
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,758
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cottonking View Post
I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding amongst out-of-town fans about the Stars and Brad Richards.

Yes, he makes more money than his production would suggest he's worth. But no, that's not reason to give him away for free, and no, it doesn't mean he has a net zero or negative value.

Richards is a very good player at a superstar price. Contrast that with Jason Blake, who is a below-average player for a very good player price.

An expensive, lousy vet on a rebuilding team = zero-to-negative value ... trade him for anything, just to move him off the roster, save the cash and get some sort of asset in return.
A super-expensive, very good vet on a contending team = significant value ... don't trade him unless we're getting one hell of a return.
I see parallels between this perspective of Richards and what should be the general perspective on Hamrlik too. Different players at slightly different overall levels, but still, much more important on the ice than they are being given credit for in some of the cap-centric trade proposals going around.

Blind Gardien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2009, 03:46 PM
  #23
WeThreeKings
DJ Nikita
 
WeThreeKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 37,375
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to WeThreeKings
Wow.. Montreal fans need to stop making proposals, they're just brutal.

WeThreeKings is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2009, 05:12 PM
  #24
ck26
Free Raptor Reagan
 
ck26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Coyotes Bandwagon
Country: United States
Posts: 7,156
vCash: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfans333 View Post
Jussi Jokinen, Jeff Halpern and Mike Smith? That was the deal? Don't expect much more than that kind of package for a 7.8 millions centre averaging 60pts.
1) This whole conversation is stupid because nobody on the Stars wants to trade Brad Richards. Stop telling us to lower our expectations, it was a Habs fan who made the proposal.

2) Smith, Jokinen and Halpern is a very good package, but that's apples and oranges because the situations are TOTALLY different.

Tampa was in a rebuild. Like I stated in my previous post -- and Blind Gardien expounded on -- the Stars aren't trying to shed salaries and stockpile assets; we're trying to win the Cup this year. Tampa was trying to dump salary and stockpile assets, not win a Cup this year.

To demonstrate my point, imagine a trade-back for the exact same assets: the Stars would never do it, and the Lightning wouldn't either.

Replacing Richards with Halpern would force the Stars to either a) put Modano back up on the 2nd line (nervous about that) or b) put one of our young wingers into the middle (Eriksson??). Either way ... no thanks. Mike Smith would throw a fit coming to Dallas ... he's 26ish and would be a backup AGAIN, which would derail his career aspirations. And Jussi Jokinen would be thrown back onto the left winger pile that we have in Dallas and would probably end up on a 4th line. We'd likely buy out Halpern because Ott has grown into that checking role over the last couple seasons.

From the Lightning perspective, they'd be giving up their best goalie (whose GAA was a full goal-per-game better than anyone else's last season ... WOW!), adding a huge salary, taking ice time away from Stamkos, and adding two holes to their roster (pretend Jokinen was still with Tampa), for which they'd have to find two more forwards. They'd NEVER do that.

Don't think that what Dallas paid Tampa for Richards 2 seasons ago can be used as a rough guide for what Montreal would have to pay Dallas for Richards now. Apples and oranges.

ck26 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2009, 05:24 PM
  #25
vipernsx
Flatus Expeller
 
vipernsx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 6,525
vCash: 500
Gomez 7.35, Cammy 6, Gionta 5, and you want to add Richards at 7.8. That's like half the cap budget right there. All on players where the bang for the buck ratio is way down....not a good thing.

vipernsx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:17 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.