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Toronto - Columbus

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Old
08-04-2009, 11:38 AM
  #26
Lilou
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
But, But, But, I thought the only reason Columbus was in the NHL was to assist team's in their rebuilding efforts by taking veterans that the fans of that team no longer wanted and returning our top prospects. At least that's the impression I get around here.
Yes you are correct. Me personally, I have always considered the jackets as Toronto`s second farm team. Therefore whats yours is ours. THANKS.

Brassard, Filitav, etc etc are going to look good in leaf colors.

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08-04-2009, 12:49 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Look, I understand that. I just think this gets overstated by Columbus fans a bit too much. If they can afford to pay Freddy Modin 3.5 M and Raffi Torres 2.75, you'd think they could manage the slight jump in salary from one of them to Tomas Kaberle at 4.25 M. Any trade would be equal salary for the most part.

Conversely, why is MVR at 3.25 somewhat reasonable, but Kaberle at 4.25 is unreasonable? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Now, if the point is that they can't afford to weaken their pipeline, then thats reasonable, but its only tangentially related to financial pressure.

Let's be honest, it's not the money. It's the belief going back two years that Kaberle is worth a 1st, a roster player, and a high end prospect by Leaf fans (and last season by Burke).

If you remember, we went back and forth on this. Last year it was, "We'll get that at the trade deadline." Then when that failed, it was "Burke will get that at the draft for Tomas!"

If Burke could get that, Kaberle would be long gone. Meanwhile, he becomes less valuable as time goes on.

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Old
08-04-2009, 12:49 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Look, I understand that. I just think this gets overstated by Columbus fans a bit too much. If they can afford to pay Freddy Modin 3.5 M and Raffi Torres 2.75, you'd think they could manage the slight jump in salary from one of them to Tomas Kaberle at 4.25 M. Any trade would be equal salary for the most part.

Conversely, why is MVR at 3.25 somewhat reasonable, but Kaberle at 4.25 is unreasonable? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Now, if the point is that they can't afford to weaken their pipeline, then thats reasonable, but its only tangentially related to financial pressure.
We CAN NOT give up young, CHEAP talent. Why is this so hart to figure out. We need to replace guys like Modin with cheap, young talent. Not replace them with more expensive players.

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08-04-2009, 12:51 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
We CAN NOT give up young, CHEAP talent. Why is this so hart to figure out. We need to replace guys like Modin with cheap, young talent. Not replace them with more expensive players.

And my friend RDriesen just loves players with a history of missing games due to injury!

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08-04-2009, 01:05 PM
  #30
grabo84
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Originally Posted by leek View Post
Let's be honest, it's not the money. It's the belief going back two years that Kaberle is worth a 1st, a roster player, and a high end prospect by Leaf fans (and last season by Burke).

If you remember, we went back and forth on this. Last year it was, "We'll get that at the trade deadline." Then when that failed, it was "Burke will get that at the draft for Tomas!"

If Burke could get that, Kaberle would be long gone. Meanwhile, he becomes less valuable as time goes on.
I figured thats probably more what its all about, and I can definitely understand that point of view. There's still Leafs fans who want to see Kaberle gone and the rebuild deepened, but for the most part the fanbase is in favour of keeping him and going with what we have.

Personally, I have zero concern about Kaberle's value dropping over time, since I'd be happy to just see him resigned and stay in Toronto for the rest of his career. There's no rush or reason to trade him in my view unless we're getting something we need more than Kaberle, like a number one centre.

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08-04-2009, 01:13 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
I figured thats probably more what its all about, and I can definitely understand that point of view. There's still Leafs fans who want to see Kaberle gone and the rebuild deepened, but for the most part the fanbase is in favour of keeping him and going with what we have.

Personally, I have zero concern about Kaberle's value dropping over time, since I'd be happy to just see him resigned and stay in Toronto for the rest of his career. There's no rush or reason to trade him in my view unless we're getting something we need more than Kaberle, like a number one centre.
Exactly. Like I don't see why many leafs fans want to pull the trigger on any trade the loses them Kaberle, without him their D better at least get a good offensive player on the back end or else the leafs team looks pretty bad imo.

If I were a leafs fan I wouldn't want Kaberle gone unless overpayment was given. A good top 6 forward and defensive prospect (offensive d prospect) + mid range pick. They likely won't get that unless they wait until this deadline though (after Kaberle plays good) and if he plays good I don't see why they would trade him. Kaberle not injured and playing good at his salary is worth a lot.

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Old
08-04-2009, 01:15 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
We CAN NOT give up young, CHEAP talent. Why is this so hart to figure out. We need to replace guys like Modin with cheap, young talent. Not replace them with more expensive players.
Kaberle? Expensive? /ignore

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Old
08-04-2009, 01:22 PM
  #33
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What I find funny is how TO fans want to trade Kaberle. Sure he didn't have a great season, but who exactly is going to play offensively in the back end? Finger? Come on guys, you're going to be pinned in your own end for most of the games. Then you're going to ice a PP unit with very little offense coming from the back end? What's with that???
I don't know what's with that either. Given the present make-up of Toronto's defense, I should think trading Kaberle would be a suicidal move. And I sure don't see White as much of a possible alternative. With many, maybe most, of his points scored as a forward, he only looks like an offensive defenseman on paper, not in reality.

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08-04-2009, 01:30 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Kaberle? Expensive? /ignore
Wow, thanks for understanding that for a team that lost $10Million last season ANY salary increase is expensive.

Kaberle is a bargain compared to the joke contracts that the Rangers hand out, and is a very good contract compared to the rest of the league, but fans of other teams need to understand that Columbus might as well be at the Cap, as they just simply can't spend any more this season.

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Old
08-04-2009, 01:37 PM
  #35
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Wow someone actually gets it around here. Kudos to you sir!




As far as I see it there are two options: Jason Chimera for MVR or a 3rd round pick for MVR, might be able to swing a 2nd for him if its conditional. Either way, Toronto needs to lose a defenseman and add probably a 3rd or 4th line wing.

We've been through this a million times in the last month.
Just what the Leafs need another 3rd/4th line forward. Although Chimera for Van Ryn is intriguing. Chimera is a good forechecker with great wheels. He would look better than some of the plugs in our lineup.

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Old
08-04-2009, 01:38 PM
  #36
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Just what the Leafs need another 3rd/4th line forward. Although Chimera for Van Ryn is intriguing. Chimera is a good forechecker with great wheels. He would look better than some of the plugs in our lineup.
Yeah, I'd be very pleased with that trade. We don't need more 3-4 liners, but we may have to settle for more if all we're dealing is Van Ryn.

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Old
08-04-2009, 01:45 PM
  #37
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never gonna happen

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Old
08-04-2009, 03:23 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Kaberle? Expensive? /ignore
The point my fellow Jacket fans seem to be making is that Kaberle -is- more expensive than our young, cheap, pipeline talent. He is one of the better contracts for a player of his caliber, without a doubt. But giving up someone who we have the potential to keep for a long time -and- at a cheaper rate, makes Kaberle expensive for us, the Jackets, right now.

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Old
08-04-2009, 03:43 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Kaberle? Expensive? /ignore
Wow, way to not understand a simple point.

Let's say you make $50,000 a year.

Let's say you have already spent $60,000 this year.

Can you afford to spend another $4,250 the next 2 years?

Then again, maybe you can. It is that kind of thinking that caused America to need a buy out. Just buy, buy, buy, and buy more. Who cares that 1 day you will actually have to pay for it.


Also, don't recall ever saying anything about Kaberle's contract not being good.

Way to fail.

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Old
08-04-2009, 03:45 PM
  #40
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And my friend RDriesen just loves players with a history of missing games due to injury!
Hey, now, we aren't talking about that right now.

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Old
08-04-2009, 03:45 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
Wow, way to not understand a simple point.
You worded it pretty vaguely, so you can't really blame people for thinking you meant that Kaberle is expensive for a player of his calibre.

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Old
08-04-2009, 03:55 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Look, I understand that. I just think this gets overstated by Columbus fans a bit too much. If they can afford to pay Freddy Modin 3.5 M and Raffi Torres 2.75, you'd think they could manage the slight jump in salary from one of them to Tomas Kaberle at 4.25 M. Any trade would be equal salary for the most part.

Conversely, why is MVR at 3.25 somewhat reasonable, but Kaberle at 4.25 is unreasonable? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Now, if the point is that they can't afford to weaken their pipeline, then thats reasonable, but its only tangentially related to financial pressure.
Who in their right mind would trade Modin for Kaberle or Torres for Kaberle? While Torres offers value to Columbus in this case he's a salary dump compared to Kaberle. He was a solid player -maybe their best the last 20 games. both players have one year left and that money will be used to re-sign guys like Brassard and Russell who both have 1 year left on ELC.

There are creative ways to fit Kaberle into Columbus but the moment Modin is part of the deal going the other way the laughs will obviously begin. columbus will continue to build from within and find a piece that fits in the structure for short and long term. I personally like a guy like Yanick Weber from Montreal but that's just me.


Last edited by Xoggz22: 08-04-2009 at 05:47 PM.
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Old
08-04-2009, 04:02 PM
  #43
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Modin, Moore, 2010 1st Round Pick for Kaberle? I think Toronto would have to consider this.
i would take it

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08-04-2009, 04:03 PM
  #44
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Who in their right mind would trade Modin for Kaberle or Torres for Kaberle? Torres offers value to Columbus. He was a solid player -maybe their best the last 20 games. both players have one year left and that money will be used to re-sign guys like Brassard and Russell who both have 1 year left on ELC.

There are creative ways to fit Kaberle into Columbus but the moment Modin is part of the deal going the other way the laughs will obviously begin. columbus will continue to build from within and find a piece that fits in the structure for short and long term. I personally like a guy like Yanick Weber from Montreal but that's just me.
I'm not sure I follow. Modin at the very least is a salary dump, and Torres is obviously overpaid for what he brings to the table, which is why Edmonton let him go. You can't seriously mean that you wouldn't deal Modin as part of a package for Kaberle, right?

And honestly, what has Weber proven? You may as well just continue relying on Russell if you're going to go for such an unproven quantity.

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Old
08-04-2009, 04:07 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
I'm not sure I follow. Modin at the very least is a salary dump, and Torres is obviously overpaid for what he brings to the table, which is why Edmonton let him go. You can't seriously mean that you wouldn't deal Modin as part of a package for Kaberle, right?

And honestly, what has Weber proven? You may as well just continue relying on Russell if you're going to go for such an unproven quantity.
I hope not. I'd do Modin and next years 1st anyday. But that's just me.

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08-04-2009, 04:09 PM
  #46
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Van Ryn for a 2nd in 2010 would be a fair deal IMO.

Agree with your points though.
What?!?!

A 2nd round pick for a injury prone dman who has a cap hit of $2.9 million?

There is no way I would give up that much for MVR.

If I was Clb, I would sign Schneider (who would probably come cheaper than $2.9 million) then trade for MVR.

Leafs fans are crazy if they think they can get a 2nd round pick for him.........then again, I also remember what they expected from the Antropov and Kubina trades

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08-04-2009, 04:13 PM
  #47
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I hope not. I'd do Modin and next years 1st anyday. But that's just me.
Just curious, Isn't next years draft considered a weak draft?

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Old
08-04-2009, 04:16 PM
  #48
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Just curious, Isn't next years draft considered a weak draft?
Top end talent probably trumps 2009's, but there's more quality prospects in 2009.

That said, even though I think the value of Modin+Moore+1st is there for Kaberle, I don't think that Howson would be quick to deal him right after he was drafted (as another poster has said).

Perhaps Modin+Mayorov+1st+3rd for Kaberle

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Old
08-04-2009, 04:25 PM
  #49
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You worded it pretty vaguely, so you can't really blame people for thinking you meant that Kaberle is expensive for a player of his calibre.
What is so confusing about it. Is Kaberle not more expensive then a player on his ELC? Not to tough for me to understand.

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Old
08-04-2009, 04:39 PM
  #50
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Top end talent probably trumps 2009's, but there's more quality prospects in 2009.

That said, even though I think the value of Modin+Moore+1st is there for Kaberle, I don't think that Howson would be quick to deal him right after he was drafted (as another poster has said).

Perhaps Modin+Mayorov+1st+3rd for Kaberle
Drop the 3rd to a 4th and I'd probably bite.
Internet GM'ing is fun.

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