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Old
08-04-2009, 09:05 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knee Seeking Scud View Post
You have to look who Ott played with this year and who Lucic played with. If the roles were reversed i think Ott would of scored the same or more than he did this year. Lucic is a great young kid but this past season shows that Ott has the ability to scored when needed. I hate the age argument myself....sure Lucic is younger but is there any reason to say "Oh he will get a lot better'? Nobody can tell how he will develop. He may suck something fierce this next season and so could Ott. Now if i were to pick a overall complete player then i would choose Lucic but off of scoring alone i would choose Ott.

http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpool_linecombo.php

Ott played with Ribiero and Lehtinen/Ericksson most of the year, so I'm not sure how disadvantaged he was by playing with inferior linemates. You've also used the age argument more than a few times when discussing Neal's potential, but all of a sudden it's not valid?

Here's the thing...Lucic doesn't have to get a lot better to be better than Ott. He is 6 years younger and was four points off Ott's career high that he set this year. I think he's there already. Now the question is how much better than Ott he is going to become, and that remains to be seen.

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08-04-2009, 09:13 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely06 View Post
http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpool_linecombo.php

Ott played with Ribiero and Lehtinen/Ericksson most of the year, so I'm not sure how disadvantaged he was by playing with inferior linemates. You've also used the age argument more than a few times when discussing Neal's potential, but all of a sudden it's not valid?

Here's the thing...Lucic doesn't have to get a lot better to be better than Ott. He is 6 years younger and was four points off Ott's career high that he set this year. I think he's there already. Now the question is how much better than Ott he is going to become, and that remains to be seen.
Ott didn't have a single point on the powerplay in his first 24 games. In that span, he registered 3 goals and 6 assists.

In his next 40 games, he registered 37 points, 12 of them on the powerplay. You can pinpoint the exact moment he received legitimate top 6 duties and he produced at a 76 point pace.

Yes, he's more skilled than Lucic. Age or linemates have nothing to do with it. Talent does.

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08-04-2009, 09:36 AM
  #28
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Ott didn't have a single point on the powerplay in his first 24 games. In that span, he registered 3 goals and 6 assists.

In his next 40 games, he registered 37 points, 12 of them on the powerplay. You can pinpoint the exact moment he received legitimate top 6 duties and he produced at a 76 point pace.

Yes, he's more skilled than Lucic. Age or linemates have nothing to do with it. Talent does.
I don't get your point though. Lucic ended up with similar numbers with significantly less PP time, and thus less points on the PP.

My point is that I think we know what Ott's ceiling is offensively considering he is 27 going into this season. I don't think anyone knows what Lucic's ceiling is going to be.

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08-04-2009, 09:53 AM
  #29
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08-04-2009, 10:04 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely06 View Post
http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpool_linecombo.php

Ott played with Ribiero and Lehtinen/Ericksson most of the year, so I'm not sure how disadvantaged he was by playing with inferior linemates. You've also used the age argument more than a few times when discussing Neal's potential, but all of a sudden it's not valid?

Here's the thing...Lucic doesn't have to get a lot better to be better than Ott. He is 6 years younger and was four points off Ott's career high that he set this year. I think he's there already. Now the question is how much better than Ott he is going to become, and that remains to be seen.
Lucic played primarily with the assist machine Savard and Kessel. Also played with Krejci and Ryder. Lucic overall played with more skill than Ott did yet Ott had more points in 8 less games.

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08-04-2009, 10:19 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knee Seeking Scud View Post
You have to look who Ott played with this year and who Lucic played with. If the roles were reversed i think Ott would of scored the same or more than he did this year. Lucic is a great young kid but this past season shows that Ott has the ability to scored when needed. I hate the age argument myself....sure Lucic is younger but is there any reason to say "Oh he will get a lot better'? Nobody can tell how he will develop. He may suck something fierce this next season and so could Ott. Now if i were to pick a overall complete player then i would choose Lucic but off of scoring alone i would choose Ott.
I think a better argument would be, let's look at the first few seasons of each player

Steve Ott: 1st Season: 26GP 3 goals 4 assists
2nd Season: 73GP 2 goals 10 assists
3rd Season: 82GP 5 goals 17 assists
4th Season: 19GP 0 goals 4 assists
5th Season: 73GP 11 goals 11 assists
6th Season: 64GP 19 goals 27 assists

Lucic: 1st Season: 77GP 8 goals 19 assists
2nd Season: 72GP 17 goals 25 assists

Interesting. Lucic scored more goals in his first 2 seasons, than Ott did in his first 5. In Lucic's 2nd season, his numbers are almost as good as Ott's best season. Lucic more than doubled his own goal totals in his 2nd season than his 1st, & played 5 less games. If I was making a team & I was choosing one guy or the other, I would absolutely pick Milan Lucic. But of course if I could have both, I would also.

It's also worth noting, when Ott was Lucic's age he wasn't even in the NHL yet. He didn't play his first season till he was 20. Lucic played his first season at 18

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Old
08-04-2009, 10:34 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenatorArmy View Post
I think a better argument would be, let's look at the first few seasons of each player

Steve Ott: 1st Season: 26GP 3 goals 4 assists
2nd Season: 73GP 2 goals 10 assists
3rd Season: 82GP 5 goals 17 assists
4th Season: 19GP 0 goals 4 assists
5th Season: 73GP 11 goals 11 assists
6th Season: 64GP 19 goals 27 assists

Lucic: 1st Season: 77GP 8 goals 19 assists
2nd Season: 72GP 17 goals 25 assists

Interesting. Lucic scored more goals in his first 2 seasons, than Ott did in his first 5. In Lucic's 2nd season, his numbers are almost as good as Ott's best season. Lucic more than doubled his own goal totals in his 2nd season than his 1st, & played 5 less games. If I was making a team & I was choosing one guy or the other, I would absolutely pick Milan Lucic. But of course if I could have both, I would also.

It's also worth noting, when Ott was Lucic's age he wasn't even in the NHL yet. He didn't play his first season till he was 20. Lucic played his first season at 18
I can't comment on Lucic as I don't see him often enough. Ott, however, I do. While those stats are telling about Ott's game, they may not be good as a comparison tool. Ott started out as a part time 4th line grinder/ enforcer type. The last 2 seasons are the first that he played with more skilled players and the change in his playing style is drastic. In the past it seemed as if he never even though offensive was part of his responsibility- decidedly not the case last year. It's like someone said, "hey Steve, you need to play in the offensive zone now." And so he did. While I wouldn't rave about Ott's stick skills or sick shot, he's got the positioning part down rather well. Battles great for the puck too. I think last year is really indicative of what he can do on a regular basis.

Did Lucic start out in a top 6 role?

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Old
08-04-2009, 10:37 AM
  #33
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I'm not exactly sure, but I think Lucic started his first season on the 4th line, but last season he played 2nd/3rd line

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08-04-2009, 10:44 AM
  #34
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there are some notable differences between their style of play although they are quite similar as well. Ott is more of an agitator, but sometimes I do think he crosses the line into Avery territory. Lucic is agitating as well but is more of a physical force than Ott is. I'd much rather get hit by Steve Ott, than Lucic who could very well end up shattering the glass. Also Lucic is among the best fighters in the league. In just 2 seasons he has compiled a very impressive fight highlight reel. he has lost maybe only 1 fight & more importantly he's stayed healthy the whole time. we're talking about a teenager here beating up grown men.

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Old
08-04-2009, 10:55 AM
  #35
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What is Dallas looking for, could edmonton possible fill these holes viet trade?

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08-04-2009, 11:07 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winning Aces View Post
Great locker room guy and good leadership qualities.

Knows his role on the team perfectly. He plays as a top 6 forward when needed and plays as a bottom 6 forward when the team is healthy. Barely ever complains about reduced ice time.

One of the best agitators in the league and with a great cap hit of 1.5 mil.
Agree...I love Otts game and he can be a top 6. I would love Boston to get him but I doubt he is welcome. From Windsor so I saw what he is capable of and that is when I became a fan. I never thought he would turn out to be what he is today though.

Any trade for Ott coming to Boston has to start with Begin...but Dalas has been there done that so we can close the book on any hopes here.

FYI...Ott does have more skill than Lucic but Lucic bring more to the table. Two different animals here. One is a hyena and the other is a lion both capable of a kill. Figure out who is what...although it should be obvious except for Hab fans?

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08-04-2009, 11:40 AM
  #37
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Agree...I love Otts game and he can be a top 6. I would love Boston to get him but I doubt he is welcome. From Windsor so I saw what he is capable of and that is when I became a fan. I never thought he would turn out to be what he is today though.

Any trade for Ott coming to Boston has to start with Begin...but Dalas has been there done that so we can close the book on any hopes here.

FYI...Ott does have more skill than Lucic but Lucic bring more to the table. Two different animals here. One is a hyena and the other is a lion both capable of a kill. Figure out who is what...although it should be obvious except for Hab fans?
If Boston were to get Ott Edwards would have a coronary!

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08-04-2009, 12:01 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely06 View Post
I don't get your point though. Lucic ended up with similar numbers with significantly less PP time, and thus less points on the PP.

My point is that I think we know what Ott's ceiling is offensively considering he is 27 going into this season. I don't think anyone knows what Lucic's ceiling is going to be.
Lucic scored 37 points in 40 games?

Ott scored nearly a PPG when used in an offensive role.

And how do you know Ott's ceiling? At 27, he still has room to grow especially considering that last year was the first taste of meaningful offensive ice-time that he's ever received and he was brilliant.

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08-04-2009, 12:28 PM
  #39
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I think a better argument would be, let's look at the first few seasons of each player

Steve Ott: 1st Season: 26GP 3 goals 4 assists
2nd Season: 73GP 2 goals 10 assists
3rd Season: 82GP 5 goals 17 assists
4th Season: 19GP 0 goals 4 assists
5th Season: 73GP 11 goals 11 assists
6th Season: 64GP 19 goals 27 assists

Lucic: 1st Season: 77GP 8 goals 19 assists
2nd Season: 72GP 17 goals 25 assists

Interesting. Lucic scored more goals in his first 2 seasons, than Ott did in his first 5. In Lucic's 2nd season, his numbers are almost as good as Ott's best season. Lucic more than doubled his own goal totals in his 2nd season than his 1st, & played 5 less games. If I was making a team & I was choosing one guy or the other, I would absolutely pick Milan Lucic. But of course if I could have both, I would also.

It's also worth noting, when Ott was Lucic's age he wasn't even in the NHL yet. He didn't play his first season till he was 20. Lucic played his first season at 18
Ott was also never given a chance in the early going with Dallas because they actually had offensive depth.

Ott's story reminds me of Franzen's. Franzen was pulling 3rd and 4th (mostly 4th) for his first few years. It wasn't until we had a rash of injuries that Franzen found himself playing alongside Datsyuk and getting PP time. And in the past 2 seasons, hes had, what? 60 goals?

I would LOVE for the Wings to get Ott. Hes exactly what we need. But Ken Holland doesn't make trades, and we don't give up assets in the salary cap world.

Is he UFA next season? Could garner a pretty penny at the deadline.

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08-04-2009, 12:32 PM
  #40
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Ott was also never given a chance in the early going with Dallas because they actually had offensive depth.

Ott's story reminds me of Franzen's. Franzen was pulling 3rd and 4th (mostly 4th) for his first few years. It wasn't until we had a rash of injuries that Franzen found himself playing alongside Datsyuk and getting PP time. And in the past 2 seasons, hes had, what? 60 goals?

I would LOVE for the Wings to get Ott. Hes exactly what we need. But Ken Holland doesn't make trades, and we don't give up assets in the salary cap world.

Is he UFA next season? Could garner a pretty penny at the deadline.
Yup he's a UFA after next season & I imagine the asking price for Ott will be pretty high. Then again, that will depend on the kind of season he has next year. Let's suppose he puts up similar or slightly better numbers, then I imagine he'll fetch somewhere in the 3-3.5 million range.

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08-04-2009, 01:15 PM
  #41
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I'd love him in Montreal. He, Moen, Laraque and Lapierre would be fun to watch!
Of course you would. You were a fan of Mike Komisarek.

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Still re-living the Dallas/Boston game i see. Put up better numbers than you beloved Lucic in 8 less games as well.
Thats great. Accept Milan Lucic isn't a class A ******* like this fool.

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Ridiculous post

One of the best agitiators in the league, A leader in the locker room..Puts up 45 pts for 1 .3 mill..and extremely valuable in front of the crease on the 2nd unit PP..

enough said
Ridiculous post. He is one of the leagues biggest **********. I wouldn't want him near my team if he was scoring 100 points a year.

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Originally Posted by Winning Aces View Post
Great locker room guy and good leadership qualities.

Knows his role on the team perfectly. He plays as a top 6 forward when needed and plays as a bottom 6 forward when the team is healthy. Barely ever complains about reduced ice time.

One of the best agitators in the league and with a great cap hit of 1.5 mil.
See my above 3 responses.

There are many a guys in this league that have just as much skill and leadership as Ott, but aren't complete ********** and ACTUALLY play the game of hockey rather than whatever you want to call what Steve Ott does.

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08-04-2009, 01:21 PM
  #42
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Of course you would. You were a fan of Mike Komisarek.



Thats great. Accept Milan Lucic isn't a class A ******* like this fool.



Ridiculous post. He is one of the leagues biggest **********. I wouldn't want him near my team if he was scoring 100 points a year.



See my above 3 responses.

There are many a guys in this league that have just as much skill and leadership as Ott, but aren't complete ********** and ACTUALLY play the game of hockey rather than whatever you want to call what Steve Ott does.
Having a username as LordLucic i can see why refuse to see the obvious. You base your opinions solely on the Dallas/Boston game of last year.


Jack Edwards is that you?

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08-04-2009, 01:22 PM
  #43
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Of course you would. You were a fan of Mike Komisarek.



Thats great. Accept Milan Lucic isn't a class A ******* like this fool.



Ridiculous post. He is one of the leagues biggest **********. I wouldn't want him near my team if he was scoring 100 points a year.



See my above 3 responses.

There are many a guys in this league that have just as much skill and leadership as Ott, but aren't complete ********** and ACTUALLY play the game of hockey rather than whatever you want to call what Steve Ott does.
Jealousy isn't cute, just sayin.

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08-04-2009, 01:25 PM
  #44
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Agree...I love Otts game and he can be a top 6. I would love Boston to get him but I doubt he is welcome. From Windsor so I saw what he is capable of and that is when I became a fan. I never thought he would turn out to be what he is today though.

Any trade for Ott coming to Boston has to start with Begin...but Dalas has been there done that so we can close the book on any hopes here.

FYI...Ott does have more skill than Lucic but Lucic bring more to the table. Two different animals here. One is a hyena and the other is a lion both capable of a kill. Figure out who is what...although it should be obvious except for Hab fans?
Most Stars fans didn't think he would be the player he is today based on the early part of his career. He was widely viewed (and correctly at the time) as a 1st round bust.

I really can't speak to Lucic as I don't get to see him play hardly ever. He has had an impressive start to his career though. From what I've seen of both players though, your analogy is fitting. The end result is still a dead bloody animal.

The thing about Ott that impresses and intrigues me, is that it seems over the course of his extended injury absences (all due to fighting) over the last few years he realizes how to better help the team. When he came back from injury this last season he was under doctor's orders not to fight. That, coupled with playing alongside more talent and getting quality PP time have really boosted his confidence in the offensive zone.

If you had asked me two, or even three years ago if I would trade Steve Ott I would have asked how quick we could get him on a flight. I feel exactly the opposite now. And to his credit, he has earned every bit of his new linemates and responsibility. He has always had a high hockey IQ, he's always had the potential to be an all-around player. But, earler in his career it seemed like whenever the Stars would spring a player for a breakaway it would be Ott and the goalie never looked like stopping him was an issue. He is starting to bury these chances consistently now, so opponents have to respect his offense just that much more, which takes even a little pressure off his linemates. I couldn't be more happy with the guy, and continue to be impressed with his learning curve. I liken it somewhat to Robidas', in that we all sort of had each player pegged for a certain ceiling, but both are breaking through those.

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08-04-2009, 01:28 PM
  #45
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There are many a guys in this league that have just as much skill and leadership as Ott, but aren't complete ********** and ACTUALLY play the game of hockey rather than whatever you want to call what Steve Ott does.
Not trying to be a **** or anything, but how many times have you seen Ott play?

And for the record, what are your feelings on Avery? This will help me determine how I feel about your hockey opinions henceforth.

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08-04-2009, 01:33 PM
  #46
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Not trying to be a **** or anything, but how many times have you seen Ott play?

And for the record, what are your feelings on Avery? This will help me determine how I feel about your hockey opinions henceforth.
I'm willing to bet he's seen all of one game, and we all know which game that was.

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08-04-2009, 01:36 PM
  #47
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Not trying to be a **** or anything, but how many times have you seen Ott play?

And for the record, what are your feelings on Avery? This will help me determine how I feel about your hockey opinions henceforth.
I have seen Steve Ott play plenty of teams. A center ice subscriber for 2 and a half years now.

Sean Avery is a step above Steve Ott but both are ********** in a league of their own.

I really can't believe their are this man people that are a fan of this guy. I wouldn't want him to disgrace the Bruins jersey ever. We have had a enough ********** who have already done that for us (McSorley, Chris Nilan, etc.).

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08-04-2009, 01:37 PM
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I'm willing to bet he's seen all of one game, and we all know which game that was.
Wrong. Its really mind-boggling how not one Dallas fan hates this guy.

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08-04-2009, 01:44 PM
  #49
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Wrong. Its really mind-boggling how not one Dallas fan hates this guy.
Ask anyone on the Stars board and they'll probably tell you I'm not Ott's biggest fan; he's probably my least favourite player on the team going into next year.

However, he has a job and he does it very well. I'm not really a fan of his game, but most Stars fans are and, most importantly, his teammates are as well.

And, like it or not, there are probably quite a few GM's around the league who would love to have Steve Ott on their team, but I doubt Nieuwendyk is even considering it, considering the successful top 6 audition Ott put forth last year.

He showed that, if needed, he can provide some offense, but his true strength remains a lower-line grinder/agitator, and there are very few equals, league-wide, to the game he brings. And he will continue to fill this role for Dallas as they rebound this season.

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08-04-2009, 01:45 PM
  #50
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I really can't believe their are this man people that are a fan of this guy. I wouldn't want him to disgrace the Bruins jersey ever. We have had a enough ********** who have already done that for us (McSorley, Chris Nilan, etc.).
Douchey McDouchertons are on every team. Ott is one who can play the game better than a lot of the others. You'd change your tune if he was slugging it out in the honeybear sweater, you just wouldn't admit it.

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Wrong. Its really mind-boggling how not one Dallas fan hates this guy.
Well he's on Dallas. That would explain it.

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Ask anyone on the Stars board and they'll probably tell you I'm not Ott's biggest fan; he's probably my least favourite player on the team going into next year.

However, he has a job and he does it very well. I'm not really a fan of his game, but most Stars fans are and, most importantly, his teammates are as well.

And, like it or not, there are probably quite a few GM's around the league who would love to have Steve Ott on their team, but I doubt Nieuwendyk is even considering it, considering the successful top 6 audition Ott put forth last year.
I'd be happy to have him on the Sharks. Avery? No. Sharkko? No.Ott. Yes. I remember the 08 playoffs.

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