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KHL wants Lampman back

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Old
08-05-2009, 12:33 AM
  #51
Zine
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Originally Posted by juice1815 View Post
lets face it, **** ty players go play in the KHL because it is a **** ty league. Sorry we took guys like Malkin, Fedorov and others but the best players in the world come to the best league in the world.

People in Europe need to get not get flustered when guys want to challenge themselves and play against the top players in the world. It is a natural part of life, people want to be the best in their profession, the only way to be the best is be in the best league in thw world and face top notch competition.

There are several good players in the KHL but it is the same for other sports and other leagues all over the world. Just look at the Fedor Emilinanko guy in MMA. Not in the UFC with a 30-1 record but not considered the best because he does not face top competition that the UFC has. Not the best example but one that has been in the news lately so thought i would use it. The NHL needs to let guys go who do not want to be here. What type of person does not want to be the best? **** Hudler and **** Radulov, decent players but ran for the money, no one wants that lack of character around
Not to get off track but Emelianenko has proven he's the best by what he accomplished in PRIDE. UFC heavyweight division is a joke compared to what he's fought in PRIDE. Look at who he's beaten over the years.
He doesn't need to face unskilled Lesnar (who only has 6 fights to his name) to prove he's the best.

OK, back on topic...

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08-05-2009, 12:36 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
It's because the ramifications of NHL's poaching can still be seen in Russian hockey today.
When USSR fell, hockey in Russia was ***** and pillaged, gutted and left for dead. A good portion of that was due to NHL giving absolutely nothing back for the all the talent it took.
Now that Russian hockey is getting back on it's feet, Medvedev/Fetisov/Tretiak are making sure history won't repeat itself.
And that's okay but because Russia has opted out, they're exposed no different than the NHL. I sure as hell am not mad that Hudler or Radulov left for the KHL. That's just business. I just get tired of all the crying and propaganda from both sides. Until there's a hard agreement set in stone, this is going to happen and it's useless and ignorant to blame the players or even the teams. I blame the league reps for not getting to a table and really figuring it out and defining a position on the issue.

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08-05-2009, 12:41 AM
  #53
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jfried, in 15 years the NHL market could be established and thriving in places like Atlanta, Florida, California, and Texas. The cap could rise a large amount with a single national TV deal. Even with a flat cap, how do you expect the KHL to compete financially? Look at the payrolls of the top teams in Sweden vs. the NHL cap minimum. Adding those teams to the KHL may increase the prestige but it doesn't increase the revenues by a significant amount. How long will Swedish, Finnish, Czech, etc. teams be happy competing with payrolls 1/10 the size of the few Russian megaclubs? The KHL will deal with the same issues the NHL did, and they'll have to figure something out. The biggest problem is that the KHL is currently a Russian-controlled entity and other countries won't join if the Russian government continues to play a major role in it. It needs to because an independent business thriving on its own before it can even begin to hope to come close to the revenues generated by the NHL. I'm fairly certain if you combined all the revenues of every team in every league in Europe that you'd still fall quite a bit short of last seasons NHL revenues. That right there is the major problem. You can't hope to outspend the NHL for players longterm until you can match their spending power.

Also realize that if the KHL poaching players over money becomes too much of a problem, the league and PA will work something out to let the big money teams take the shackles off and just spend the KHL into the ground. Do you really think if teams like Toronto, New York, Montreal, Detroit, etc. weren't limited by a cap that they'd ever lose a single player to the KHL over money?

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Old
08-05-2009, 12:54 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
And that's okay but because Russia has opted out, they're exposed no different than the NHL. I sure as hell am not mad that Hudler or Radulov left for the KHL. That's just business. I just get tired of all the crying and propaganda from both sides. Until there's a hard agreement set in stone, this is going to happen and it's useless and ignorant to blame the players or even the teams. I blame the league reps for not getting to a table and really figuring it out and defining a position on the issue.
Then, blame falls on NHL who won't even come to the table.

KHL has repeatedly stated they are willing to work with NHL on a transfer agreement (it was even mentioned in KHLs recent Hudler statement).
NHL wants nothing to do with this because they obviously know they can no longer strong-arm KHL and other euro leagues into paultry 1 sided deals anymore...and they apparently won't settle for anything less.
All KHL is asking for is a fair market price 2-way transfer agreement. NHL wants none of it.

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08-05-2009, 12:56 AM
  #55
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Does the NHL or the player's agent knows all the details of the KHL's contracts or are there some details that are hide to them?

I am not saying that it's the KHL's fault but I find it weird that the NHL would run the risk to enter in a "war" with the KHL because they "stole" two AHL players.(Kwiatkowski and Lampman...Dadonov is a different case)

By the way, why did Kwiatkowski and Lampman left the KHL. Did they tought that they had an out-clause or did their teams let them go because they had too much foreigners or any other reasons

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08-05-2009, 12:57 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Then, blame falls on NHL who won't even come to the table.

KHL has repeatedly stated they are willing to work with NHL on a transfer agreement (it was even mentioned in KHLs recent Hudler statement).
NHL wants nothing to do with this because they obviously know they can no longer strong-arm KHL and other euro leagues into paultry 1 sided deals anymore...and they apparently won't settle for anything less.
All KHL is asking for is a fair market price 2-way transfer agreement. NHL want's none of it.
The KHL talking about is nothing different than the NHL talking. Saying they'll meet and actually putting a date together to do so is different. If the KHL really wanted a transfer agreement, they'd have a meeting with Bettman. He's not a hard man to get a hold of for other league reps.

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08-05-2009, 01:10 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
It's because the ramifications of NHL's poaching can still be seen in Russian hockey today.
When USSR fell, hockey in Russia was ***** and pillaged, gutted and left for dead. A good portion of that was due to NHL giving absolutely nothing back for the all the talent it took.
Now that Russian hockey is getting back on it's feet, Medvedev/Fetisov/Tretiak are making sure history won't repeat itself.
So when Communist Russia fell and talented players bolted for personal wealth and greater freedom which they were previously denied, you equate that to being ***** & pillaged?

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08-05-2009, 01:24 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by RandV View Post
So when Communist Russia fell and talented players bolted for personal wealth and greater freedom which they were previously denied, you equate that to being ***** & pillaged?
It wasn't a case of it happening all at once or immediately following USSR collapse. NHL poached boatloads of players with exising contracts (Russian contracts mind you, not USSR) for a good 2-3 years until the 1st transfer agreement went into effect in 1994......and even then the transfer money NHL gave out was a joke.

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08-05-2009, 01:39 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
It wasn't a case of it happening all at once or immediately following USSR collapse. NHL poached boatloads of players with exising contracts (Russian contracts mind you, not USSR) for a good 2-3 years until the 1st transfer agreement went into effect in 1994......and even then the transfer money NHL gave out was a joke.
The ones breaking the contracts are the players, not the leagues. Players have a choice now and always have had a choice, so it's not even close to poaching.

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08-05-2009, 01:41 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
The KHL talking about is nothing different than the NHL talking. Saying they'll meet and actually putting a date together to do so is different. If the KHL really wanted a transfer agreement, they'd have a meeting with Bettman. He's not a hard man to get a hold of for other league reps.

Thing is, NHL isn't talking. They're purposly refusing to talk transfer agreement with KHL under the pretext of 'not respecting contracts'. They only thing they're stating is crap like 'KHL refused our offer'.

In fact, KHL VP Shalaev recently said in interview that NHL offices don't even respond to inquiries made by KHL.

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08-05-2009, 01:42 AM
  #61
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if the KHL ever got to the size of the NHL Burke would have a field day he could signed 100% NA players haha

Well if the player wants to be closer to home and get payed more money while doing so why wouldn't he other then lesser competition. What about the players that aren't good enough to get signed by an NHL team you don't expect him to stay at home all year they want to play so if they can't get signed well guess where there going. It would make perfect sense for a transfer agreement all the NHL would have to do would be wait another year or two to sign them.

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08-05-2009, 01:45 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Thing is, NHL isn't talking. They're purposly refusing to talk transfer agreement with KHL under the pretext of 'not respecting contracts'. They only thing they're stating is crap like 'KHL refused our offer'.

In fact, KHL VP Shalaev recently said in interview that NHL offices don't even respond to inquiries made by KHL.
Well if the NHL is saying the KHL is refusing to talk and the NHL is refusing to talk to the KHL one of them has to be lying so that just destroys your point because you don't how is lying or not. correct me if I'm wrong thats just what
i've gathered.

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08-05-2009, 01:53 AM
  #63
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The ones breaking the contracts are the players, not the leagues. Players have a choice now and always have had a choice, so it's not even close to poaching.
Now that's just stupid.

Everyone is for player rights, but breaking contracts should not be allowed....nor is it allowed in many sports (regulated by leagues themselves). If everybody had that 'right' the entire sporting world would be in absolute chaos.

Signing somebody with an existing contract is without a doubt poaching.

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08-05-2009, 02:29 AM
  #64
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Now that's just stupid.

Everyone is for player rights, but breaking contracts should not be allowed....nor is it allowed in many sports (regulated by leagues themselves). If everybody had that 'right' the entire sporting world would be in absolute chaos.

Signing somebody with an existing contract is without a doubt poaching.
I don't think you understood what I said. I'm not saying breaking a contract is okay. I'm saying you're misplacing the blame.

If I have a contract to work for Company A and I break it to go work for Company Z, then I'm the one who violated the contract. As far as the original contract is concerned, Company Z is a third party. And Company A's issue is with me, not Company Z.

Now, pretend I'm a hockey player and A and Z are interchangeable with whatever league/team fits.

Instead, the leagues are acting like scorned lovers who can't bring themselves to take action against their precious commodities, so they go try to start fights with the the league with whom their players have been cheating.

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08-05-2009, 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by juice1815 View Post
lets face it, **** ty players go play in the KHL because it is a **** ty league. Sorry we took guys like Malkin, Fedorov and others but the best players in the world come to the best league in the world.

People in Europe need to get not get flustered when guys want to challenge themselves and play against the top players in the world. It is a natural part of life, people want to be the best in their profession, the only way to be the best is be in the best league in thw world and face top notch competition.

There are several good players in the KHL but it is the same for other sports and other leagues all over the world. Just look at the Fedor Emilinanko guy in MMA. Not in the UFC with a 30-1 record but not considered the best because he does not face top competition that the UFC has. Not the best example but one that has been in the news lately so thought i would use it. The NHL needs to let guys go who do not want to be here. What type of person does not want to be the best? **** Hudler and **** Radulov, decent players but ran for the money, no one wants that lack of character around
TOP competition in UFC???Frank Mir who beat old and wasted Nogueira? and lost afterwards to Lesnar who beat 46 years old Couture? and Herring ...or is it Dana White who told you about OVERRATED fedor Couture,Bas Rutten,Randelman,Rampage,Silvya,GSP and many other top fighters and experts from MMA world call Fedor as a Best Pound for Pound fighter on the world !! but there will be allways UFC fanboys who dosnt know a .... about other fighters outside of UFC. PS> you are right that example wasnt correct at all

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08-05-2009, 07:06 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juice1815 View Post
lets face it, **** ty players go play in the KHL because it is a **** ty league. Sorry we took guys like Malkin, Fedorov and others but the best players in the world come to the best league in the world.

People in Europe need to get not get flustered when guys want to challenge themselves and play against the top players in the world. It is a natural part of life, people want to be the best in their profession, the only way to be the best is be in the best league in thw world and face top notch competition.

There are several good players in the KHL but it is the same for other sports and other leagues all over the world. Just look at the Fedor Emilinanko guy in MMA. Not in the UFC with a 30-1 record but not considered the best because he does not face top competition that the UFC has. Not the best example but one that has been in the news lately so thought i would use it. The NHL needs to let guys go who do not want to be here. What type of person does not want to be the best? **** Hudler and **** Radulov, decent players but ran for the money, no one wants that lack of character around
The KHL has never had a problem with players leaving for the NHL. They have a problem with players breaking contracts to do so.

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08-05-2009, 07:12 AM
  #67
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A mighty OT, but, per Wiki

"Emelianenko has been universally considered the best heavyweight fighter in the world for the last six years by major publications, including ESPN, Sherdog, Full Contact Fighter, MMA Weekly, and Nokaut.[5] Several mixed martial arts publications currently rank Emelianenko as the #1 pound-for-pound fighter in the world.[6][7] "


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedor_Emelyanenko

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08-05-2009, 07:18 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
jfried, in 15 years the NHL market could be established and thriving in places like Atlanta, Florida, California, and Texas. The cap could rise a large amount with a single national TV deal. Even with a flat cap, how do you expect the KHL to compete financially? Look at the payrolls of the top teams in Sweden vs. the NHL cap minimum. Adding those teams to the KHL may increase the prestige but it doesn't increase the revenues by a significant amount. How long will Swedish, Finnish, Czech, etc. teams be happy competing with payrolls 1/10 the size of the few Russian megaclubs? The KHL will deal with the same issues the NHL did, and they'll have to figure something out. The biggest problem is that the KHL is currently a Russian-controlled entity and other countries won't join if the Russian government continues to play a major role in it. It needs to because an independent business thriving on its own before it can even begin to hope to come close to the revenues generated by the NHL. I'm fairly certain if you combined all the revenues of every team in every league in Europe that you'd still fall quite a bit short of last seasons NHL revenues. That right there is the major problem. You can't hope to outspend the NHL for players longterm until you can match their spending power.

Also realize that if the KHL poaching players over money becomes too much of a problem, the league and PA will work something out to let the big money teams take the shackles off and just spend the KHL into the ground. Do you really think if teams like Toronto, New York, Montreal, Detroit, etc. weren't limited by a cap that they'd ever lose a single player to the KHL over money?
You're absolutely right, in 15 years the NHL could be in a position to crush the KHL..... but it could also not be. Therefore, there is NO REASON for them to agree to a transfer agreement that would facilitate the KHL's growth. (all the KHL wants is a 2-sided transfer deal whereby they can legally take NHL contracts just like the NHL can legally take KHL contracts. There are systemic issues for the KHL, but there is no reason to believe that they will not adapt to make it work. All you have to do is realize that europe is problably more than twice the economic base, they will get advertising economies of scale by having a presence in more than one country.

The easy way to crush the KHL is if they let the big money NHL teams take the shackles off, that problably won't happen. The NHL is in a tough spot, they are trying to grow the game and need parity to do so. If they take away parity then they may crush the KHL (because they are paying fair market prices) but they may crush themselves in the process.

At the end of the day there is no real way to "standardize" compensation for transfer of players within leagues on a bilateral agreement. Its going to have to be something like what soccer does. The problem is that the NHL's current payment structure would not facilitate a system like this.

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