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Atl - Njd - Tor

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Old
08-05-2009, 01:34 AM
  #1
Alex28*
 
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Atl - Njd - Tor

To Atlanta - Zubrus (NJ)

To Toronto - Salmella (ATL), 1st (NJ), 2nd (ATL)

To New Jersey - Stajan, White (TOR)

New Jersey gives up Zubrus and a 1st for Stajan and White
Atlanta gives up Salmella and a 2nd for Zubrus
Toronto gives up Stajan and White for Salmella, 1st and 2nd

Reasoning: Zubrus is the guy you want to put between Kovalchuk and Antropov when an elite center is unavailable. He's been good for 40 points playing a solid physical and defensive game on a checking line in New Jersey, and was great with Ovechkin when they were paired (then again, who isn't), and Kovalchuk and Ovechkin play a similar style. He's physical for a center, defensively responsible, does the dirty work that helps get his linemates open, and, although he lacks elite vision, that won't be a problem since Kovalchuk and Antropov will have the puck 90% of the time. Also is pretty good with Russian players, everything considered, probably can be reasonably expected to put up 55-60 points. Atlanta instantly becomes very good offensively (Kovalchuk - Zubrus - Antropov; Kozlov - White - Little; Armstrong - Peverley - Kane is a hell of a top 9) and is probably the best the team has ever been. They can afford to lose Salmella since they already have 3 defensemen capable of moving the puck (and 4 capable of quarterbacking the PP, plus Kovalchuk). Zubrus also improves their PK handily.

New Jersey gets rid of Zubrus's cap hit, which is an albatross to them since he doesn't fit their team design as a scoring center, and upgrades for a younger and cheaper Stajan who has a higher ceiling and could be their intermediate 2nd line center. They also improve their defense with White, who would be an upgrade over Salvador in a top 4 role (imagine a White - White pairing, teams wouldn't know if they're in for a slick outlet pass or a punishing hit... well... they'd know they're in for a hit).

Toronto gets a good offensive D prospect in Salmella, who they need after dealing Stralman. Since White is out they can make room for Salmella on the 3rd pairing (where he can afford to make mistakes and learn on the job), with first unit PPQB duties, and develop him that way. They also get two good picks to help in their rebuild.

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Old
08-05-2009, 01:38 AM
  #2
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Stajan and white for Zubrus and a 1st? I say yes.

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08-05-2009, 01:40 AM
  #3
Schennanigans
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Why exactly do we want to deal our best defensemen last year? White is young, and will be the cornerstone of our defense for years to come. Burke wouldn't even deal him for Zherdev which would have addressed our need for a top 6 forward.

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08-05-2009, 01:41 AM
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Nope.

I'm more content with our current top two centers (White and Peverley) They bring a better game than Zubrus and are dirt cheap. Also not ready to give up on Salmela before he plays a full season.

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08-05-2009, 01:43 AM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Schennanigans View Post
Why exactly do we want to deal our best defensemen last year? White is young, and will be the cornerstone of our defense for years to come. Burke wouldn't even deal him for Zherdev which would have addressed our need for a top 6 forward.
This. Plus, we need to keep Stajan to centre one of our top two lines.

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08-05-2009, 01:46 AM
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Nope.

I'm more content with our current top two centers (White and Peverley) They bring a better game than Zubrus and are dirt cheap. Also not ready to give up on Salmela before he plays a full season.
Zubrus is better than either of them defensively and on the PK, and despite 2 subpar seasons in New Jersey (where he was put with 3rd liners in a checking role) he's still a good player. Peverley, while a pleasant surprise, is half a season removed from the AHL, and did as well as he had last year by doing the same little things Zubrus does well when put on a scoring line with skilled players who prefer to carry the puck. White already has a line to himself, and last year was an anomaly for him since Kozlov suddenly decided to be beyond awesome, this year I'd realistically expect him to get around 50-60 points. Salmella, while can be an ok bottom pairing defenseman for you guys and become a top 4 a couple years down the road, is redundant with three better puck moving defensemen.

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08-05-2009, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
Zubrus is better than either of them defensively and on the PK, and despite 2 subpar seasons in New Jersey (where he was put with 3rd liners in a checking role) he's still a good player. Peverley, while a pleasant surprise, is half a season removed from the AHL, and did as well as he had last year by doing the same little things Zubrus does well when put on a scoring line with skilled players who prefer to carry the puck. White already has a line to himself, and last year was an anomaly for him since Kozlov suddenly decided to be beyond awesome, this year I'd realistically expect him to get around 50-60 points. Salmella, while can be an ok bottom pairing defenseman for you guys and become a top 4 a couple years down the road, is redundant with three better puck moving defensemen.
What are you getting at?

A struggling overpaid center isn't worth a second rounder.

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08-05-2009, 02:14 AM
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What are you getting at?

A struggling overpaid center isn't worth a second rounder.
That this trade would make Atlanta better.

Zubrus is overpaid for what he brings to NJ. If he regains his form (which he is more than capable of doing, being 31 and healthy) and plays in a system which suits him better, he's not overpaid. Look at his play with Ovechkin and Clark, in Ovechkin's first 2 years in the league. It would be similar if not better with a more experienced Kovalchuk (than Ovechkin was in his first 2 years) and a much more skilled and versatile Antropov (than Clark). This also gives you a 3rd line which can both score and check relatively well.

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08-05-2009, 02:47 AM
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You still never answered why Toronto does this... There really is no reason for them to.

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08-05-2009, 02:55 AM
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this favors NJ way too much

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Old
08-05-2009, 02:59 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by Schennanigans View Post
You still never answered why Toronto does this... There really is no reason for them to.
Because the leafs need to continue to gather more prospects for the future, just because you have a couple young and highly rated prospects now does not mean the re-build is over. Realistically getting a good prospect and those two pics for those two guys is better for the long term future of the franchise.

While being more competitive is a step in the right direction for the Leafs next season the team still needs to continue to re-build the farm if they want to be a great team one that could win the cup in the next few years.

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08-05-2009, 03:09 AM
  #12
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Yes we still could use more prospects to continue the rebuild. But White will be a big part of the rebuild not the other way around. I could easily see Stajan dealt eventually but White makes absolutely zero sense. Him and Schenn are the exact kind of guys you build around.

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08-05-2009, 05:34 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
Zubrus is better than either of them defensively and on the PK, and despite 2 subpar seasons in New Jersey (where he was put with 3rd liners in a checking role) he's still a good player.

Zubrus played most of last season on our second line with Elias and Gionta.

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08-05-2009, 06:22 AM
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You still never answered why Toronto does this... There really is no reason for them to.
They get a young defenseman in Salmela and two picks.

It makes perfect sense for them.

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08-05-2009, 06:24 AM
  #15
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This is a solid deal for Toronto....1st & 2nd round picks in this year's draft!

Losing Stajan hurts, but we could go out and sign Comrie and likely not miss a beat. Losing White is obviously more painful, but with his impending raise and still having Van Ryn on the blueline, something that problably makes sense to get those picks back.

This is honestly one of the best 3-way proposals I've ever seen.

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08-05-2009, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
That this trade would make Atlanta better.

Zubrus is overpaid for what he brings to NJ. If he regains his form (which he is more than capable of doing, being 31 and healthy) and plays in a system which suits him better, he's not overpaid. Look at his play with Ovechkin and Clark, in Ovechkin's first 2 years in the league. It would be similar if not better with a more experienced Kovalchuk (than Ovechkin was in his first 2 years) and a much more skilled and versatile Antropov (than Clark). This also gives you a 3rd line which can both score and check relatively well.
Why would Atlanta gamble on that? We have a guy who had 35 pts. in 39 games and another who had 73 pts. all year.

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Old
08-05-2009, 08:20 AM
  #17
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I really don't see how the Devils make out like bandits. I personally wouldn't do it. And has for Zubrus, his contract may be long, but his cap hit is only $3 million and change, plus he's useful and Lamoriello won't give up a first rounder.


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08-05-2009, 08:48 AM
  #18
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I wouldn't do it.

I rather keep a 1st round pick then add someone like White. If Lou does decide to trade his 1st + ??? for a PMD, I'm certain he can do better than Ian White.

People seem to think that Zubrus is like dead weight on our roster and is taking cap space for nothing... HE ISN'T. He's our "new" John Madden. He's the exact 3rd liner Lou loves to have on his team. He's got size, speed, plays a sound 2 way game and can average 40 pts. a season on a "checking" line.

It's not our fault if people keep on thinking that he's top 6 material when he's a very dominant 3rd liner center.

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08-05-2009, 10:24 AM
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I wouldn't do it.

I rather keep a 1st round pick then add someone like White. If Lou does decide to trade his 1st + ??? for a PMD, I'm certain he can do better than Ian White.

People seem to think that Zubrus is like dead weight on our roster and is taking cap space for nothing... HE ISN'T. He's our "new" John Madden. He's the exact 3rd liner Lou loves to have on his team. He's got size, speed, plays a sound 2 way game and can average 40 pts. a season on a "checking" line.

It's not our fault if people keep on thinking that he's top 6 material when he's a very dominant 3rd liner center.
I agree with this 100%, every single part not just the bolded parts. Zubrus is like a blend of Bobby Holik and John Madden for the New Jersey Devils. And his "Albatross" contract is exactly the same cap hit as Madden was.


I think he is a very useful player for the Devils

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08-05-2009, 10:27 AM
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I would consider doing Zubrus and a 1st for Stajan and I. White. We get Stajan in the deal, and that gives us a second line centre, but now we don't have a third line centre. However, that role is easier to fill. White would fit in well on our defensive corps, although it would trigger a trade because we'd have too many defencemen. I'm hesitant to say that this deal is worth trading our first rounder, though.

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08-05-2009, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
Zubrus is better than either of them defensively and on the PK, and despite 2 subpar seasons in New Jersey (where he was put with 3rd liners in a checking role) he's still a good player. Peverley, while a pleasant surprise, is half a season removed from the AHL, and did as well as he had last year by doing the same little things Zubrus does well when put on a scoring line with skilled players who prefer to carry the puck. White already has a line to himself, and last year was an anomaly for him since Kozlov suddenly decided to be beyond awesome, this year I'd realistically expect him to get around 50-60 points. Salmella, while can be an ok bottom pairing defenseman for you guys and become a top 4 a couple years down the road, is redundant with three better puck moving defensemen.
there are several thing's wrong with this

one peverley performed like he did for half a season, not a month, nopt on and off, he was solid for half a season. that's not just getting hot, that's being good.

two kozlov was just slightly better than he normally is last year

three salmela is a lot more important than you are thinking. it would not surprise me at all to see him take kubina's spot in the top 4 when he leaves next season.

four white normally has just as many, if not more, points than zubrus so he's not replacing him.

so the only thing here is asking if we value what may or may not be an upgrade over peverley higher than salmela and a 2nd round pick

i say no

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Old
08-05-2009, 11:26 AM
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I'd do it from Toronto's side.

With the addition of players such as Bozak, Hanson, Stahlberg and Tlusty, it is reasonable to move at least one of our top 6 forwards in Stajan, who is ideally, IMO more of a third liner.

Our defense is a bit crowded as well. If you can get a first and a 2nd for them, you do it.

Toronto will then have 2 1st rounders next year, and a 2nd, which we dont have at the moment, I think.

It is also a pretty fair deal, IMO.

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08-05-2009, 11:38 AM
  #23
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The issue I see is that while the Devils have players who could be suited to play center (Elias, Rolston), those players aren't suited to play third line center. So trading our third line center for a second line center leaves us with no one on the roster who could fill the third line spot, and we'd have to make another deal.

Plus, while Stajan > Zubrus, they're very different players, and despite Zubrus' cap hit I'm not convinced that adding one at the expense of the other would make the Devils a better overall hockey team.

Then, when you consider it's costing us a first because of Zubrus' perceived overpayment... no thanks.

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08-05-2009, 11:44 AM
  #24
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The issue I see is that while the Devils have players who could be suited to play center (Elias, Rolston), those players aren't suited to play third line center. So trading our third line center for a second line center leaves us with no one on the roster who could fill the third line spot, and we'd have to make another deal.

Plus, while Stajan > Zubrus, they're very different players, and despite Zubrus' cap hit I'm not convinced that adding one at the expense of the other would make the Devils a better overall hockey team.

Then, when you consider it's costing us a first because of Zubrus' perceived overpayment... no thanks.
We also get White in the deal. It's not just a question of Zubrus being overpaid. The question is whether you think upgrading from Zubrus to Stajan and acquiring White is worth our first rounder. Considering it's likely to be a late pick, I'm tempted to say it is worth it.

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08-05-2009, 11:54 AM
  #25
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We also get White in the deal. It's not just a question of Zubrus being overpaid. The question is whether you think upgrading from Zubrus to Stajan and acquiring White is worth our first rounder. Considering it's likely to be a late pick, I'm tempted to say it is worth it.
I haven't looked up White's stats, but don't we already have players like Oduya and Greene who are similar type players?

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