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Flyers interested in Bertuzzi

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Old
08-05-2009, 03:14 PM
  #51
BillyShoe1721
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I like that he's trying to give this team an identity and have a definite direction to go in, but I don't think this is the right direction.

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08-05-2009, 03:18 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by FlyersJunky View Post
In all seriousness, I wouldn't want to ever again see anything like that in any sport -- or in anyTHING, for that matter -- let alone by a member of a team I support.

It is one thing to joke about making Cyndy uncomfortable... or to see him being hit as Hatcher did a couple seasons back, or Smith laying him out... all during the game, and within the aspect of the game and at least somewhat close to the rules -- meaning that if it is cleanish, but an infraction is whistled, so be it -- and always in the spirtit of the game and in good sportsmanship... Players can game display good sportsmanship while laying a player out in a physical contact sport, such as hockey is. It is another thing entirely to see a player go clearly over the line in an act that was more than likely an out of his mind play -- the entire event was not premeditated, IMO... it was his intention to take a pound of flesh in retaliation, but I don't believe it was meant to go nearly to that extreme. At least I like to believe it wasn't.

Sometimes a player crosses the line and deserves a stiff find and suspension... and other times the act borders on criminal, which I believe the Bertuzzi act was.

I honestly don't like that Bert was allowed to lace the skates up again in the NHL... He was, so we muct all live with the fact. I really am not happy with the chance that he could don O&B... And if he ever again does such an act, I will not give him the support I usually give to one of my own -- while being fair and honest in my assessment -- Another such act should cast him from the league forever, IMO... And make the organization think.

That said, Homer has always been known for giving second chances to people... I assume this can fall under that category... So, with the way this team is presently being constructed/tweaked, I could see him being signed.
nobody agrees with what he did, but the guy made a mistake....people make mistakes and deserve second chances imo

i think we can all agree that he had no intention on breaking moores neck, it was an unfortunate incident, and i feel bad for everyone involved....yes even todd...lets remember why it happened in the first place, moore cheap shoted his friend, linemate and captain in naslund, and todd wanted to get back at him, unfortunately he didnt do it the right way, and will never escape that incident for the rest of his life.

i think mcsorley's slash to brash's head was 10 times worse, but obviously the end result from the bertuzzi thing was a 100 times worse, so nobody talks about that one

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08-05-2009, 03:19 PM
  #53
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I'm not sure how I feel about the Bertuzzi/Moore incident. I think that I don't really care THAT much.

Bertuzzi had revenge on his mind and clearly overstepped the bounds. However, it was also a freak play. He completely jumped a dude and the ensuing fall/pileup broke a guys neck. If he didn't break his neck, he would have gotten a minor suspension and would have been known as nothing more than a dirty player for sucker punching someone.

I think what McSorely did was WAY worse. Bertuzzi wanted to beat the piss out of someone and when the guy wouldn't square up with anyone he did it anyway. McSorely used his stick as a weapon in an act that can only be intended to REALLY hurt someone.

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08-05-2009, 03:33 PM
  #54
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meh. i guess we need another winger

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08-05-2009, 03:39 PM
  #55
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I think he's a reasonable replacement for what Knuble brought to the team for a fraction of the cost. For a bit over 1 million, i would welcome him here. We could use a bit more forward depth.

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08-05-2009, 03:41 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 25 Pronger D PHI View Post
nobody agrees with what he did, but the guy made a mistake....people make mistakes and deserve second chances imo

i think we can all agree that he had no intention on breaking moores neck, it was an unfortunate incident, and i feel bad for everyone involved....yes even todd...lets remember why it happened in the first place, moore cheap shoted his friend, linemate and captain in naslund, and todd wanted to get back at him, unfortunately he didnt do it the right way, and will never escape that incident for the rest of his life.

i think mcsorley's slash to brash's head was 10 times worse, but obviously the end result from the bertuzzi thing was a 100 times worse, so nobody talks about that one
Not arguing on second chances... I'm just not thrilled to have him on the team I live and die with.

Many people go over the line in a momentary lapse of judgement/temporary insanity... Most are at least punished and put on probation, and let's say that Bertuzzi's punishment was just that, and he is allowed to play in the NHL.

That said, almost every act of bad judgement and crime can be justified in such a manner... Even a repeat offender can be looked at as being out of his mind and not really aware enough to understand that he or she is doing wrong... Sooooo, everybody gets another chance... Even child molesters and wife beater get another chance or two.

I guess my point -- and, yes I do have one -- is that everybody has their own level of forgiveness... and draws their own line at acts of violence and crime and how liberal they are in handing out punishment and chances... Me? I just wonder the wisdom in allowing a person to skate at breakneck speed -- no pun intended -- with a weapon in their hand, in an extremely physical and sometime violent game, when they have shown that they are capable of a violent lapse of judgement... I'm not saying that he can't be forgiven and allowed to live life free and forgiven, I'm just saying that freedom can be had outside the NHL -- like Moore now is.

And, yes, McSorley has displayed the type lack of judgement that would make me think twice before I employed him in a position that involves a weapon/stick.

I guess what scares me is the length that the team is going in constructing a team chock full of players who have a history of racking up PIMS and suspensions... When is enough enough? Is it going over the line to bring in a player with Betuzzi's history after the recent acquisitions?... Where do they stop?... How will the NHL be looking at all this?... Can the Flyers play through added scrutiny by on and off ice officials?

I guess we will be finding out in a few months.

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08-05-2009, 03:54 PM
  #57
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1.2M a year is not a bad price. imo he can score 10-15 PPG 50-55pts on this team and he can replace Knuble. 6'3 almost 245lbs he is not slow and he does sticks up for his teammates something Knuble never did.

I just want him to be more physical. Throw his body around more and stay away from the box.

Can someone post a link about how many minor penalties did Bert take last season..

Maybe Maroon or JVR will be ready mid 2009 season.

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08-05-2009, 03:56 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Can someone post a link about how many minor penalties did Bert take last season..
21 taken, 17 drawn.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/2008/5_on...=10&team=&pos=

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08-05-2009, 04:01 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by UseYourAllusion View Post
This is not bad. I think better then Knuble.

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08-05-2009, 04:01 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Haha, I was trying to be nice.



Well, as Snap Wilson has nicely pointed out for us, he sucks defensively, so that rules him out of the Richie-Gagne line most likely.

I think you and I differ on how to set up the team, I don't want Lappy, Pyorala, or Carcillo anywhere near the top-6.

I mean, this team is just crying out so hard for a decent 3rd line C.

Gagne-Richards-Giroux
Carter-Hartnell-Briere
Lappy-XXXXX-Pyorala
Carcillo-Powe-Asham

That is a freaking awesome set of forwards if you plug in a Moore/Malhotra/whatever.

I'd actually be comfortable giving that 4th line 7-8 minutes as a bang line to soften up other teams, assuming Pyorala works out defensively and we get that good defensive C, that becomes a line we can play against other teams' top-6.

Why doesn't the organization see this?
Well what are you going to do? Those two guys are rumored to be wanting too much. I would have LOVED to get Madden in here. Right now we should be looking at Goc. Exactly what we need for a great price.

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08-05-2009, 04:10 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
Well what are you going to do? Those two guys are rumored to be wanting too much. I would have LOVED to get Madden in here. Right now we should be looking at Goc. Exactly what we need for a great price.
There are several good bottom 6 options out there.

At this juncture, I'd be happy with any of Malhotra, Lang, Moore, Goc, Gratton, Yelle, or Zigomanis.

Just a vet to add some more stability and preferably FOs.

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08-05-2009, 04:24 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
1.2M a year is not a bad price. imo he can score 10-15 PPG 50-55pts on this team and he can replace Knuble. 6'3 almost 245lbs he is not slow and he does sticks up for his teammates something Knuble never did.

I just want him to be more physical. Throw his body around more and stay away from the box.

Can someone post a link about how many minor penalties did Bert take last season..

Maybe Maroon or JVR will be ready mid 2009 season.

What you're not going to get -- and you may not agree with me once again on this, Kak -- is Knuble's two way game... From every indication, Bert is not attentive in his own end, and plays a sloppy D. This does limit which line he can play on... and more importantly, which one(s) he shouldn't play on.

Granted his Cap hit may be a lot lower -- and do we really know that is true at this point? -- but he is limited on what he will do as Knuble-lite replacement... I think I'd prefer a more two-way like player; maybe get a little less potted, but also give up a bit less... and also a player that won't tax our better two-way players, and not have Richie and Carts out there as much on the D-side situation; a player who can be counted on in pretty much all situations... To me, it's not like Bert is a pure sniper.

And then there is the lack of physical play of late by Bert... As for sticking up for players; there are enough sucj players already on the roster -- BTW: Knuble did stick up for his line-mates when he felt that they were cheap shotted... Just not at the lesser times; no, he is not a goonish type player... no, he couldn't be used to ride shotgun on the stars wing, like Schultz did. And like I said, there is no lack of such players on the Flyers, so no need to seek one, IMO.

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08-05-2009, 05:00 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
This is not bad. I think better then Knuble.
24 taken, 12 drawn.

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08-05-2009, 05:06 PM
  #64
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I think Homer should be looking at a 3rd line center right now and not a winger, but if Bert will sign for a little over 1 mil then i'll be fine with it.

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08-05-2009, 05:22 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogenIsTheMan View Post
I think Homer should be looking at a 3rd line center right now and not a winger, but if Bert will sign for a little over 1 mil then i'll be fine with it.
I think Homer is set with the idea of having lappy play center on the 3rd line.

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08-05-2009, 05:28 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by TheDrizzle81 View Post
I think Homer is set with the idea of having lappy play center on the 3rd line.
I think you're right - a perfect example of why I hope he never chooses himself to replace Stevens behind the bench (as some people have suggested).

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08-05-2009, 05:31 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
I think you're right - a perfect example of why I hope he never chooses himself to replace Stevens behind the bench (as some people have suggested).
Id rather the Flyers get a 3rd line center I would, and use Lappy as in insurance ploicy (if the team gets into penalty trouble, or an injury whatever) But I think Bertuzzi would be a nice fit in the top 6 just because of his size, his potential price, and also meaning Jones will probally be gone.

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08-05-2009, 05:47 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by FlyersJunky View Post
What you're not going to get -- and you may not agree with me once again on this, Kak -- is Knuble's two way game... From every indication, Bert is not attentive in his own end, and plays a sloppy D. This does limit which line he can play on... and more importantly, which one(s) he shouldn't play on.

Granted his Cap hit may be a lot lower -- and do we really know that is true at this point? -- but he is limited on what he will do as Knuble-lite replacement... I think I'd prefer a more two-way like player; maybe get a little less potted, but also give up a bit less... and also a player that won't tax our better two-way players, and not have Richie and Carts out there as much on the D-side situation; a player who can be counted on in pretty much all situations... To me, it's not like Bert is a pure sniper.

And then there is the lack of physical play of late by Bert... As for sticking up for players; there are enough sucj players already on the roster -- BTW: Knuble did stick up for his line-mates when he felt that they were cheap shotted... Just not at the lesser times; no, he is not a goonish type player... no, he couldn't be used to ride shotgun on the stars wing, like Schultz did. And like I said, there is no lack of such players on the Flyers, so no need to seek one, IMO.
You need to get over it. Seriusly, Knuble will be playing for Washington and making much more then 1.2M a year. He was a good player for us but now he is gone. As a player he had his pluses and minuses. Enough already.


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08-05-2009, 07:05 PM
  #69
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I still think Afinogenov would prosper here with competent line-mates, and he could be had cheap.
Why in the world would you think that??? He coulent prosper in Buffalo....If people complain about Briere here, this guy doesnt have a chance in hell....



Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
The enemy is much more protected by the refs than they were in the 1970s.

A huge problem with this organization (and one that's going to become apparent if it isn't already) is that they're going to think they can intimidate the other team and more specifically, other teams' top players. That's just not going to happen, the first time Lappy or Hartnell slashes Crosby or AO, it's going to be straight to the box.

You can't intimidate the other team if they get 10 PP opportunities per game.

The BSB era of hockey is dead which is something this team refuses to accept and now, we're even trying to go back to that era. This team was already way too undisciplined last year and now we've added Pronger and Laperriere (that's another 250 penalty minutes).

I think your guys' infatuation with the Broad Street Bullies attitude is going to last up until about the 10th game of the season when we're shorthanded 8 or 9 times per game.

I don't believe in conspiracies, but officials are going to look at our lineup and already be predisposed to be harsh on us.
I couldnt agree more.

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Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
Well what are you going to do? Those two guys are rumored to be wanting too much. I would have LOVED to get Madden in here. Right now we should be looking at Goc. Exactly what we need for a great price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
There are several good bottom 6 options out there.

At this juncture, I'd be happy with any of Malhotra, Lang, Moore, Goc, Gratton, Yelle, or Zigomanis.

Just a vet to add some more stability and preferably FOs.
I would be happy with any one of those guys, with a couple caveats....If they are going to be the 3rd line center on a "shut-down" line I want Malhotra....If we are going with the 3 pairings and this is our "4th line" center, I want Goc or Gratton, in that order....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDrizzle81 View Post
I think Homer is set with the idea of having lappy play center on the 3rd line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
I think you're right - a perfect example of why I hope he never chooses himself to replace Stevens behind the bench (as some people have suggested).
I thought we had established that they were going with the 3 pairings??? Wouldnt that be why they are looking into another top 6 winger?

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08-05-2009, 07:08 PM
  #70
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could you imagine the reputation the team would have with hated and dirty players such as Hartnell, Pronger, Carcillo, Jones and then possibly Bertuzzi?

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08-05-2009, 07:18 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post




I thought we had established that they were going with the 3 pairings??? Wouldnt that be why they are looking into another top 6 winger?
I have no idea what they are doing tbh. I just go with whatever they do. My opinion isnt gonna matter anyways lol. Im happy if they sign Bert, Im happy if they sign Goc, Malhota, etc. I got what I wanted out of the offseason. Pronger and Lupuls lazy ass gone. Jones leaving would be icing on the cake.

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08-05-2009, 07:21 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDu View Post
could you imagine the reputation the team would have with hated and dirty players such as Hartnell, Pronger, Carcillo, Jones and then possibly Bertuzzi?
NVM I was gonna say "Why is Jones hated and dirty, we are the only ones who hate him" Then I remeber this happened:

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08-05-2009, 08:00 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
You need to get over it. Seriusly, Knuble will be playing for Washington and making much more then 1.2M a year. He was a good player for us but now he is gone. As a player he had his pluses and minuses. Enough already.
But I don't wanna get over it.





... Hey, you brought him up... Seriously though, my point was that Bertuzzi is a limited player. Sure, he may be cheaper, but he is not much more than a one-dimensional player who is a liability and calls negative attention to the Flyers (more negative attention, that is)... and is not as tough in his play as he once was... the Flyers have excess enforcers. And finally, who is to say that he can be signed as cheaply as people here think?

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08-05-2009, 09:10 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
I thought we had established that they were going with the 3 pairings??? Wouldnt that be why they are looking into another top 6 winger?
Exactly. How many centers do we need on this team?

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08-05-2009, 09:14 PM
  #75
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I believe that Snider has once again reached the point where he feels a de-wussification of the Flyers was in order...
Good. Only one team wins the Cup. At least we know we won't get pushed around.

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Originally Posted by FlyersJunky View Post
... Also, the smallish Timonen who plays much bigger than he is was also signed; he too plays with an edge.
I know you were making a point, and I agreed with pretty much everything you said, but Timonen doesn't play with an edge at all. We simply got him because he's a very good dman. And I know people have different opinions and say he's tough and what not, but what I mean is he doesn't hit, won't fight, won't stand up for his teammates, and wants nothing to do with confrontation. That isn't tough.

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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
For better or worse, the NHL has made it clear that it doesn't particularly like teams like the Flyers or the Ducks, so what do the Flyers do, they go and get even more goons/very physical players..
Good. It tells the league to go F off. This league's transformation has been pathetic. Thank God there are still a couple of teams like the Flyers who want to dress a tough team. I love the fact that Philly is basically saying we're not going to conform to this soft brand of hockey, and instead are going to get even tougher and still try to win.

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Originally Posted by UseYourAllusion View Post
Very nice. Especially when compared to Knuble's 24 and 12. People want to make these claims about Bertuzzi when they have nothing to base them on. Getting a guy like Bertuzzi for $1.5M or less would help this team, plain and simple.

Oh, and just for the record, Carcillo took 23, and drew 24.

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