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Do you miss JFJ?

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Old
08-05-2009, 08:23 PM
  #76
cupcrazyman
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Burke's done more in 5 mins than JFJ did the whole time he was GM in Toronto.

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08-05-2009, 08:49 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Tavares in 09 View Post
That's because he wasn't. Richard Peddie's hands have been all over this team for years and he's run the on-ice product into the ground. That's why having Burke around is so nice, he basically pushed Peddie out of the spotlight and finally our GM has the control. I never thought JFJ should have been a GM to begin with (no duh) but Peddie hired him, yet he' still around selling condo's or whatever.
this statement is so unfounded. you should at least say "IMO" or "i believe" before you say strong things like that. what is a Richard Peddie team? does he like vet. goalies, and european d-men, or does he prefer a tight checking/trapping team? was it his idea to get mogilny, or was he the architect behind the brian leetch trade deadline acquisition? where did richard peddie go wrong with the whole glen wesley ordeal?

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08-05-2009, 09:34 PM
  #78
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That guy was terrible, hes the reason were here in the first place

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08-05-2009, 09:53 PM
  #79
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I miss JFJ a lot.... exactly the same way that I miss my boyhood dentist who didn't believe in anaesthetics.

Some of JFJ's trades remind of the wonderful feeling I used to get when Dr. Bancroft would finish drilling out the cavity and then blow air on the exposed nerve....

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08-05-2009, 09:55 PM
  #80
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I'll miss the Eagle, but its nice to know and somewhat comforting not to have him making the calls

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Old
08-05-2009, 10:06 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by iMissSThomas View Post
this statement is so unfounded. you should at least say "IMO" or "i believe" before you say strong things like that. what is a Richard Peddie team? does he like vet. goalies, and european d-men, or does he prefer a tight checking/trapping team? was it his idea to get mogilny, or was he the architect behind the brian leetch trade deadline acquisition? where did richard peddie go wrong with the whole glen wesley ordeal?
Peddie went wrong when he was shooting down rebuild proposals for the Leafs. At that point, he put the team in a bad position. We lacked impact youth, had to cut cost, and were expected to improve as a team. That was the "Peddie" team. Make the playoffs, take as little time as possible.

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Old
08-05-2009, 10:17 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by iMissSThomas View Post
I can't say I do. I really like Burke and have a lot of confidence in him. I have to say though: damn those were some entertaining days (from a management standpoint). JFJ's moves always seemed to be an exercise in what not to do as an NHL GM. I don't believe in JFJ's innocence either. I think he had powers to shape his team like he did. I wasn't posting on HFBoards when everything went down. Where you at least a little entertained by his incompetence?
Do you miss Harold Ballard? I can't say I do. I don't like MLSE and don't have a lot of confidence in them, but at least they haven't been convicted of any crimes or had any horrible sex abuse scandals. I have to say though: damn, those were some entertaining days (from an ownership standpoint). Ballard's decisions always seemed to be an exercise in what not to do as an NHL owner. I don't believe in Ballard's innocence either. I think he had powers to make the Leafs a better team than they were. I was still in diapers when everything went down. Were you at least a little entertained by his incompetence and/or criminal behaviour?


Last edited by Wheels: 08-05-2009 at 10:19 PM. Reason: corrected spelling error
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Old
08-05-2009, 10:43 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by TML4LIFE View Post
Several posts have been made as to what Blake was signed for, in comparisson to other players with the same abilities/results, and what they get paid. Same can be said for McCabe, it's a debateable topic. Agreed with Easy, Klee was a good pick up, and the contracts for Antro and Pony were very good IMO.
a 5 year deal for that stiff is the worst part

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Old
08-05-2009, 11:26 PM
  #84
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JFJ destroyed our franchise. For a few years, anyhow. We'll see how quickly Burke can right this ship.

I never understood why JFJ got the job in the first place..

"Hey guys, my Dad was a good player, I wasn't. Let me GM, I'll do it for relative peanuts!"

Peddie "Sounds good, I think I know hockey but I really don't. Inexperienced GMs are great, especially for teams with huge fan bases like this one. GGGGGGGYUAAAJJHHHH."

Ok, maybe they didn't say that, but they should've. It makes the pain easier to deal with.

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Old
08-05-2009, 11:31 PM
  #85
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Lets see...

Jason Allison
Andrew Raycroft
Jeff O'Neill
Eric Lindros
Alexi Khavanov
Marius Czerkawski
Michael Peca
Bates Battaglia


...if nothing else, you have to at least give him and his regime credit for drafting our future #1 goalie Justin Pog....err.... nevermind.

No, I don't miss JFJ.

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Old
08-05-2009, 11:39 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by noobman View Post
Lets see...

Jason Allison
Andrew Raycroft
Jeff O'Neill
Eric Lindros
Alexi Khavanov
Marius Czerkawski
Michael Peca
Bates Battaglia


...if nothing else, you have to at least give him and his regime credit for drafting our future #1 goalie Justin Pog....err.... nevermind.

No, I don't miss JFJ.
i like this post.

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Old
08-06-2009, 12:40 AM
  #87
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Why would anyone miss JFJ?

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Old
08-06-2009, 12:46 AM
  #88
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Lowe: Hey John.
JFJ: LOL Hey
Lowe: Want Chris Pronger?
JFJ: LOL YES!
Lowe: For Kaberle and Steen?
JFJ: XFD NO

JFJ: I need a goalie...
Boston: Christ Raycroft you suck, we got THomas and Toivenen who can play you're gone
JFJ: XFD I'll Take Rayzor for Rask

JFJ: Well looks like we're gonna miss the playoffs again, Raycroft didn't work out like we planned. I guess I should sell.
Phoenix: Want Yannic Perrault for for a 2nd round pick and Bell?
JFJ: XFD YES

JFJ: Here I am at the draft in the top 10 because XFD see above. Who should I draft with this pick?
San Jose: Toskala...
JFJ: Nice
San Jose: And this Bell guy who is going to jail for driving while drunk and hitting someone, He also has an ungodly cap hit. Deal?
JFJ: XFD YES

No I do not miss him.

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Old
08-06-2009, 07:08 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by SSJTOM View Post
JFJ: Here I am at the draft in the top 10 because XFD see above. Who should I draft with this pick?
San Jose: Toskala...
LOL. Best part.

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Old
08-06-2009, 08:18 AM
  #90
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So much misinformation here.

There's lots to complain about with JFJ, so why spread things that aren't true.

Nobody wanting Raycroft is the biggest myth on this board. Ottawa and Detroit, who were both strong teams and well run at that point, were hot after him offering first rounders, according to TSN.

The SJ pick was 13th overall, not 9th. They traded in order to move up. This was one of the weaker drafts in recent memory. It was said to lack top-end talent and it looks that way now.

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Old
08-06-2009, 04:15 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
So much misinformation here.

There's lots to complain about with JFJ, so why spread things that aren't true.

Nobody wanting Raycroft is the biggest myth on this board. Ottawa and Detroit, who were both strong teams and well run at that point, were hot after him offering first rounders, according to TSN.
2005-06 Boston Bruins:

Raycroft: 8-19-2, 3.71 GAA, .879 Save % < --- Worst Season for an NHL goalie in probably a decade
Thomas: 12-13-10 2.77 GAA, .917 Save %
Toivonen: 9-5-4 2.63 GAA, .914 Save %

You seriously believe any team was offering a 1st round pick AND a raise for Raycroft? Even if that is so, and it's very, very hard to believe, could the Leafs really afford to trade away any youth at that moment in time whether in the form of a draft pick or a prospect for such an iffy stopgap in goal?


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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
The SJ pick was 13th overall, not 9th. They traded in order to move up. This was one of the weaker drafts in recent memory. It was said to lack top-end talent and it looks that way now.
Queue up the rationalization. Bad draft? Two years after the draft and already 4 players taken after that 1st round pick have played significant NHL time. How bad can the draft be? A 1st round pick, 2nd round pick, 4th round pick AND a salary dump for a middling NHL starter was a massive overpayment. I think the 1st rounder would have been pushing the limit for the price for a goalie like Toskala. Ferguson got seriously hosed in that deal.

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Old
08-06-2009, 04:30 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by LeafsInSeven View Post
2005-06 Boston Bruins:

Raycroft: 8-19-2, 3.71 GAA, .879 Save % < --- Worst Season for an NHL goalie in probably a decade
Thomas: 12-13-10 2.77 GAA, .917 Save %
Toivonen: 9-5-4 2.63 GAA, .914 Save %

You seriously believe any team was offering a 1st round pick AND a raise for Raycroft? Even if that is so, and it's very, very hard to believe, could the Leafs really afford to trade away any youth at that moment in time whether in the form of a draft pick or a prospect for such an iffy stopgap in goal?




Queue up the rationalization. Bad draft? Two years after the draft and already 4 players taken after that 1st round pick have played significant NHL time. How bad can the draft be? A 1st round pick, 2nd round pick, 4th round pick AND a salary dump for a middling NHL starter was a massive overpayment. I think the 1st rounder would have been pushing the limit for the price for a goalie like Toskala. Ferguson got seriously hosed in that deal.
More the likely it was Fergy and co who leaked that nonsense about other teams being interested and willing to offer 1sts.

What bothered me most about Fergy was always stopping short on his acquisitions and team building. I would rather pay a bit more for proven talent then getting a deal in a high risk acquisition. For example Vokoun vs Toskala, Smyth vs Blake,and many others I won't get into.

You can afford to make a mistake or two by taking a chance on a few high risk high return types moves (when your a top team) BUT Fergy was never in that position. The sure bet would have been the best course of action.


Last edited by LTL: 08-06-2009 at 04:38 PM.
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Old
08-06-2009, 04:48 PM
  #93
EazyB97
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Originally Posted by LeafsInSeven View Post
You seriously believe any team was offering a 1st round pick AND a raise for Raycroft? Even if that is so, and it's very, very hard to believe, could the Leafs really afford to trade away any youth at that moment in time whether in the form of a draft pick or a prospect for such an iffy stopgap in goal?
I'm not saying they could afford it, I'm saying there was a market for him. The market included some of the best teams in the league. I guess I'm gullible enough to believe TSN reporting the interest and Bostons GM following it up after the draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafsInSeven View Post
Queue up the rationalization. Bad draft? Two years after the draft and already 4 players taken after that 1st round pick have played significant NHL time. How bad can the draft be? A 1st round pick, 2nd round pick, 4th round pick AND a salary dump for a middling NHL starter was a massive overpayment. I think the 1st rounder would have been pushing the limit for the price for a goalie like Toskala. Ferguson got seriously hosed in that deal.
Looks like you didn't follow that draft much. Re-read the comment I made. It was thought to be a poor draft that lacked top-end talent. This was the deal I disliked most, but that was the market for goalies at that point. A year earlier Toskala was thought to be SJ's starter and Nabby was being shopped.

These don't excuse the deals, they clearly didn't workout. But some people, looks like yourself being one, need to realize there was a market and competition for these goalies. JFJ didn't just offer up Rask to be a nice guy. There was a market and he paid what was necessary to get these goalies. Not a smart move, nor one I would have made, but criticize it for the right reasons. Our prospect pool wasn't deep enough to make these deals.

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Old
08-06-2009, 04:50 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by LTL View Post
More the likely it was Fergy and co who leaked that nonsense about other teams being interested and willing to offer 1sts.
Hahaha, what? Why would Ferguson leak that Detroit and Ottawa were interested in Raycroft before the trade was made? It was TSN reporting it and they reported it BEFORE the Leafs even made the deal. When the announcement was being made, some thought it was Ottawa getting Raycroft.

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Old
08-06-2009, 05:15 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Fill me in on that managing of assets thing.
I meant his wheelings and dealings for getting roster players. Look at his signings, they were brutal. Look at his trades, they were brutal too.

My argument is that he could see a good prospect when the time came but never could figure out how any of his players fit in with the team. That's why there was never a direction or theme to the Leafs under his reign.

It's not always about getting the best guy you can for a cheap price. If he doesn't fit into your roster it's a waste of time. JFJ never understood that, but Burke does. Look at Anaheim's cup year. He easily could have made additions at the deadline but none of them really made sense in his lineup. Rather than being forced into making a deal for the sake of making a deal he stood pat and his team turned out just fine.

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Old
08-06-2009, 06:11 PM
  #96
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I meant his wheelings and dealings for getting roster players. Look at his signings, they were brutal. Look at his trades, they were brutal too.

My argument is that he could see a good prospect when the time came but never could figure out how any of his players fit in with the team. That's why there was never a direction or theme to the Leafs under his reign..
The legacy of a GM is often evaluated by the players he brought to the team and those that live on after him as key parts of the future.. Of the entire Leafs team at present all we have to show on the current roster this season that played games last season are;

The aging soon to be 36 year old Jason Blake, the mighty struggling Toskala with his sub-par goalie stats, and Kulemin who was drafted by the scouting team while he was in charge, and some hope for a few future picks still to pan out perhaps.

So 1 & 1/2 years after his firing and nearly all DNA and memory of his accomplishments have been erased from the current Leafs. Not much to show for a early pre-lockout playoff elimination, a lockout season, then 3 consecutive non playoff seasons for his 4 1/2 year reign and a team still trying to dig itself out from under his mistakes.

Not much to miss if you ask me!!!

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Old
08-06-2009, 06:14 PM
  #97
LTL
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Originally Posted by Wilma View Post
I meant his wheelings and dealings for getting roster players. Look at his signings, they were brutal. Look at his trades, they were brutal too.

My argument is that he could see a good prospect when the time came but never could figure out how any of his players fit in with the team. That's why there was never a direction or theme to the Leafs under his reign.

It's not always about getting the best guy you can for a cheap price. If he doesn't fit into your roster it's a waste of time. JFJ never understood that, but Burke does. Look at Anaheim's cup year. He easily could have made additions at the deadline but none of them really made sense in his lineup. Rather than being forced into making a deal for the sake of making a deal he stood pat and his team turned out just fine.
Agree 110%

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Old
08-06-2009, 06:16 PM
  #98
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The legacy of a GM is often evaluated by the players he brought to the team and those that live on after him as key parts of the future.. Of the entire Leafs team at present all we have to show on the current roster this season that played games last season are;

The aging soon to be 36 year old Jason Blake, the mighty struggling Toskala with his sub-par goalie stats, and Kulemin who was drafted by the scouting team while he was in charge, and some hope for a few future picks still to pan out perhaps.

So 1 & 1/2 years after his firing and nearly all DNA and memory of his accomplishments have been erased from the current Leafs. Not much to show for a early pre-lockout playoff elimination, a lockout season, then 3 consecutive non playoff seasons for his 4 1/2 year reign and a team still trying to dig itself out from under his mistakes.

Not much to miss if you ask me!!!
Thankfully for Leafs Nation his reign of incompetence is over and forced MLSE's hand into the Burke signing.

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Old
08-06-2009, 06:17 PM
  #99
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Why is this even a question?

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Old
08-06-2009, 06:20 PM
  #100
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If not for him we would be discussing how far we'd be making it in the playoffs this year instead of wondering if we'll suck enough to get Taylor Hall.

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