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08-06-2009, 06:15 PM
  #1
Marc Bergevins Suit
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Mr. Claude Giroux

Where is Claude Giroux sitting on the Flyers depth chart?

This guy looked really and with a full season and top six minutes i can see a 60+ season.

Is he going to be your top RW next year or number 2 RW?


Thanks in advance.

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08-06-2009, 06:25 PM
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The Flyers don't really have a #1 line, more like a 1a, 1b and 1c. He's probably going to play with Briere, and will get PP and PK duty. 60 points if he and Briere stay healthy, is not far fetched

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08-06-2009, 06:27 PM
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Natural RW is the Flyers weakest spot at the present time... Barring future transactions and a sophomore jinx, or his return to center where he looked so sweet at the end of the season/postseason, or other management shifts to RW... it sure looks that way to me.

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08-06-2009, 07:31 PM
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I still think seeing Him and Briere on the 3rd line is most likely. I don't see the personnel on this roster to run a true checking line.

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08-06-2009, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDu View Post
The Flyers don't really have a #1 line, more like a 1a, 1b and 1c. He's probably going to play with Briere, and will get PP and PK duty. 60 points if he and Briere stay healthy, is not far fetched
It will be interesting to see who will play center after Mike and Jeff. Unless one of the kids can move up to the big club. They will need to add at least one scoring winger.

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08-06-2009, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gohabsgo_11 View Post
Where is Claude Giroux sitting on the Flyers depth chart?

This guy looked really and with a full season and top six minutes i can see a 60+ season.

Is he going to be your top RW next year or number 2 RW?


Thanks in advance.
Well considering that if you project last years production over an entire season he'd have had some 54 points, 60 points really isnt any kind of a stretch. He didn't see much time on the PP for his first 20 games in the NHL so hispoints should increase right there. He should see roughly 3 mins of special teams play next season split pretty evenly between PK and PP. He should see roughtly 13-15 mins of even strength time per game in addition to the special teams time and 60 points is probably a little conservative for him. If he plays a full season (78+ games) then I'd project him between 65-70 points with upwards of 75 points not unrealisitc.

The NHL Network has been showing some of the Flyers/Pens playoff games from this past season, just watch them and see for yourself what this kid can do. It's almost like the game moves in slow motion for this kid. He's even better than anything we've seen so far in the NHL.

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08-06-2009, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
The NHL Network has been showing some of the Flyers/Pens playoff games from this past season, just watch them and see for yourself what this kid can do. It's almost like the game moves in slow motion for this kid. He's even better than anything we've seen so far in the NHL.
I was watching Game 4 on NHL Network after the JR Retirement Presser. Giroux is just straight up insane. Although I knew we lost the game (we totally outplayed the Pens and should have won if not for Chest-snipers, amazing goal tending by Fluery and a pretty fluky Crosby goal), I kept finding myself drawn to Giroux and searching for #28 on the ice. On one shift, he outworked and knocked down Jordan Staal in the defensive corner and showed enough patience in the offensive zone to find a wide open Asham on the doorstep. Then, on the next shift, he beats Gill outside (not too hard considering Gill is a Pylon and is as slow as molasses) cuts to the middle and feeds Powe a saucer pass. I can't wait to see what Claude Giroux can do once he gets more experience and perhaps plays with more natural goal scorers on a regular basis.

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08-06-2009, 11:55 PM
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that shortie assist he had to Gagne in game 3 was amazing...

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08-07-2009, 12:02 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by DjsIzzy View Post
that shortie assist he had to Gagne in game 3 was amazing...
I thought the short-handed assist was to Briere and that Gagne had the empty net goal. I could be wrong but I think this is how it went down. Either way, the play by Giroux short handed was still amazing.

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08-07-2009, 12:09 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I thought the short-handed assist was to Briere and that Gagne had the empty net goal. I could be wrong but I think this is how it went down. Either way, the play by Giroux short handed was still amazing.
It was Briere who netted it I believe. Incredible play. I'll remember that for a long time. That might have been the most excited I was all season.

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08-07-2009, 01:17 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by Mr Oysterhead View Post
It was Briere who netted it I believe. Incredible play. I'll remember that for a long time. That might have been the most excited I was all season.
...it was on NHL Network yesterday. Briere had the assist on Giroux's goal (pass after Powe shot), Giroux's beautiful shorthanded assist was to Gags (why would Briere be on the PK?) and Gagne also had the EN.

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08-07-2009, 01:30 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I thought the short-handed assist was to Briere and that Gagne had the empty net goal. I could be wrong but I think this is how it went down. Either way, the play by Giroux short handed was still amazing.
Briere on the PK? Come on.

Shorthanded play starts around 2:30.


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08-07-2009, 02:23 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trilliam Shakesbeer View Post
...it was on NHL Network yesterday. Briere had the assist on Giroux's goal (pass after Powe shot), Giroux's beautiful shorthanded assist was to Gags (why would Briere be on the PK?) and Gagne also had the EN.
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Briere on the PK? Come on.

Shorthanded play starts around 2:30.

Yup, good point. Damn it. Not sure why I though it was Danny but I guess the goal itself was forgettable compared to Giroux's magic and like I said, I was excited

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08-07-2009, 02:42 AM
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I consider him our 6th best forward right now with great potential to climb over this already this coming season.

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08-07-2009, 04:29 AM
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Well considering that if you project last years production over an entire season he'd have had some 54 points, 60 points really isnt any kind of a stretch. He didn't see much time on the PP for his first 20 games in the NHL so hispoints should increase right there. He should see roughly 3 mins of special teams play next season split pretty evenly between PK and PP. He should see roughtly 13-15 mins of even strength time per game in addition to the special teams time and 60 points is probably a little conservative for him. If he plays a full season (78+ games) then I'd project him between 65-70 points with upwards of 75 points not unrealisitc.

The NHL Network has been showing some of the Flyers/Pens playoff games from this past season, just watch them and see for yourself what this kid can do. It's almost like the game moves in slow motion for this kid. He's even better than anything we've seen so far in the NHL.
This.

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I consider him our 6th best forward right now with great potential to climb over this already this coming season.
Considering potential I'd put him at 5. I'm surprised you put Hartnell ahead of him.

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08-07-2009, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Considering potential I'd put him at 5. I'm surprised you put Hartnell ahead of him.
The problem is that "right now" and "potentially" don't really mix very well. Right now, Giroux is behind Hartnell (but breathing down his neck).

However, Giroux is going to become better than Hartnell in the near future. I could see him rank above some others too after the next season.

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08-07-2009, 07:44 AM
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If I rank our forwards in terms of offensive talent (i.e. pure ability...and as we all know ability doesn't always equate to production)

1)Jeff Carter
2)Danny Briere
3)Claude Giroux
4)Simon Gagne
5)Mike Richards
6)Scott Hartnell

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08-07-2009, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
If I rank our forwards in terms of offensive talent (i.e. pure ability...and as we all know ability doesn't always equate to production)

1)Jeff Carter
2)Danny Briere
3)Claude Giroux
4)Simon Gagne
5)Mike Richards
6)Scott Hartnell
I would rank them:

1 Carter
2 Richards
3 Briere
4 Gagne
5 Giroux
6 Hartnell

Note - Briere has the potential of being top 2 in terms of overall offensive talent, just lately his grion is keeping him out of games.

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08-07-2009, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
If I rank our forwards in terms of offensive talent (i.e. pure ability...and as we all know ability doesn't always equate to production)

1)Jeff Carter
2)Danny Briere
3)Claude Giroux
4)Simon Gagne
5)Mike Richards
6)Scott Hartnell
I thought I'd elaborate on why I ranked them this way because...let's be honest...I'm bored at work.

I'm basing this on the following "offensive" skill sets. (Ranked 1-6 for the top 6 forwards, 6 being the highest)

Skating ability
Shooting ability
Hands
Size (to some extent)
Creativity
Smarts (note: I think creativity and smarts kind of combine to be vision to some extent)


Carter
-Skating - 6 - Probably the best skater out of the bunch. If anyone rivals him it's Gagne, and Carter has the size to go with his speed.
-Shooting - 6 - Clearly the best shot...Gagne is the only one that could challenge him
-Hands - 3.5 - In Juniors he was apparently voted as having the best hands, but we don't see it too much in the NHL. I'd have Briere and Giroux above him here.
-Size - 5 - The biggest even though he doesn't always play that way.
-Creativity - 3 - He's alright in the regard.
-Smarts - 3 - Same here

Briere
-Skating - 4 - Briere is a great skater, but behind Carter and Gags IMO.
-Shooting - 4 - A good shooter, but behind Carter and Gags again.
-Hands - 5 - Breire has fantastic hands, only behind Giroux.
-Size - 1 - Obvious
-Creativity - 5.5 - He's great...tied with Giroux IMO.
-Smarts - 2 - Only ahead of Hartnell here

Giroux
-Skating - 3 - A good skater, but behind Carter, Gagne, and Briere.
-Shooting - 2.5 - A good shooter, I'm going to say tied with Richards.
-Hands - 6 - I think Giroux has the best hands of the bunch...or at least we see it the most, which speaks for his confidence in them.
-Size - 2.5 - Above Briere and tied with Gags. Gags is bigger but Giroux plays way bigger.
-Creativity - 5.5 - He's great...tied with Briere.
-Smarts - 4 - Very smart player, behind Richie and Gags I'd say.

Gagne
-Skating - 5 - Great skater, behind Carter
-Shooting - 5 - Great shooter, behind Carter again
-Hands - 2 - I'm only putting him above Hartnell, his hands are ok but he never shows them (see the same shootout move every time)
-Size - 2.5 - Same as Giroux
-Creativity - 2 - Only ahead of Hartnell. Gags almost always takes the "safe" play, which is fine.
-Smarts - 5 - Only behind Richards I'd say.

Richards
-Skating - 2 - Ahead of Hartnell but just not as good as the guys above him IMO. Still not a bad skater though.
-Shooting - 2.5 - A good shooter, again tied with Giroux.
-Hands - 3.5 - Good hands, but just not Giroux and Briere good.
-Size - 4 - Behind Carter and Hartnell
-Creativity - 4- He's great...behind Giroux and Briere.
-Smarts - 6 - The best

Hartnell
-Skating - 1 - He's not bad, but just not as good as the rest.
-Shooting - 1 - See above
-Hands - 1 - See above
-Size - 6 - Big and he plays big
-Creativity - 1 - Again...
-Smarts - 1 - Again...

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08-07-2009, 09:03 AM
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Well worded. I agree with your ranking.

The points at the end of the seaason do not necessarily mean that one player had more talent than another, just that they either had better lines, more energy, more ice time or in the case of Richards and Harntell just did more crashing of the net and picking up garbage goals and so on.

It is very hard to compare Hartnell and Giroux because they are so diferent. Hartnell scores plenty of goals but rarely are they pretty. He just works hard , crashes the net and makes himself a pest in front the net.

Giroux is going to be something special. When I think back to last years training camp and see the progression he made from then till the playoffs it's pretty amazing. I watched him in the mem cup the season before and thought to myself he'd have a lot of learning to do at the pro level with regards to how much time he would have to make a play, but he learned VERY quickly. The thing that surprised me the most about him last year actually wasn't his offense but his toughness. I assumed that a playmaker from the Q would be soft but he wasn't at all. I'm VERY excited to have him on this team. Way to draft Flyers.

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08-07-2009, 10:03 AM
  #21
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I would have thought that the big question for Giroux next season would have been how he played against top level opposing players...I would have assumed that for the majority of last season he wasn't really stacked up against the other teams top defensive lines who could shut him down. But, then again, we have arguably 3 "scoring" lines...so at least one of those lines is not going to get the top defensive treatment from the other team. And comparing Giroux's line (from last year) to our other 2 scoring lines, i guess it makes sense that his is the line that plays the opposing top tier less often.

Either way, it feels like a pretty deadly combination to me. If Briere can stay healthy all season I see him and Giroux putting up some pretty nasty numbers together. Especially if the other team is too busy focusing on Carter's and Richie's lines.

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08-07-2009, 10:19 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I thought I'd elaborate on why I ranked them this way because...let's be honest...I'm bored at work.

I'm basing this on the following "offensive" skill sets. (Ranked 1-6 for the top 6 forwards, 6 being the highest)

Skating ability
Shooting ability
Hands
Size (to some extent)
Creativity
Smarts (note: I think creativity and smarts kind of combine to be vision to some extent)


Carter
-Skating - 6 - Probably the best skater out of the bunch. If anyone rivals him it's Gagne, and Carter has the size to go with his speed.
-Shooting - 6 - Clearly the best shot...Gagne is the only one that could challenge him
-Hands - 3.5 - In Juniors he was apparently voted as having the best hands, but we don't see it too much in the NHL. I'd have Briere and Giroux above him here.
-Size - 5 - The biggest even though he doesn't always play that way.
-Creativity - 3 - He's alright in the regard.
-Smarts - 3 - Same here

Briere
-Skating - 4 - Briere is a great skater, but behind Carter and Gags IMO.
-Shooting - 4 - A good shooter, but behind Carter and Gags again.
-Hands - 5 - Breire has fantastic hands, only behind Giroux.
-Size - 1 - Obvious
-Creativity - 5.5 - He's great...tied with Giroux IMO.
-Smarts - 2 - Only ahead of Hartnell here

Giroux
-Skating - 3 - A good skater, but behind Carter, Gagne, and Briere.
-Shooting - 2.5 - A good shooter, I'm going to say tied with Richards.
-Hands - 6 - I think Giroux has the best hands of the bunch...or at least we see it the most, which speaks for his confidence in them.
-Size - 2.5 - Above Briere and tied with Gags. Gags is bigger but Giroux plays way bigger.
-Creativity - 5.5 - He's great...tied with Briere.
-Smarts - 4 - Very smart player, behind Richie and Gags I'd say.

Gagne
-Skating - 5 - Great skater, behind Carter
-Shooting - 5 - Great shooter, behind Carter again
-Hands - 2 - I'm only putting him above Hartnell, his hands are ok but he never shows them (see the same shootout move every time)
-Size - 2.5 - Same as Giroux
-Creativity - 2 - Only ahead of Hartnell. Gags almost always takes the "safe" play, which is fine.
-Smarts - 5 - Only behind Richards I'd say.

Richards
-Skating - 2 - Ahead of Hartnell but just not as good as the guys above him IMO. Still not a bad skater though.
-Shooting - 2.5 - A good shooter, again tied with Giroux.
-Hands - 3.5 - Good hands, but just not Giroux and Briere good.
-Size - 4 - Behind Carter and Hartnell
-Creativity - 4- He's great...behind Giroux and Briere.
-Smarts - 6 - The best

Hartnell
-Skating - 1 - He's not bad, but just not as good as the rest.
-Shooting - 1 - See above
-Hands - 1 - See above
-Size - 6 - Big and he plays big
-Creativity - 1 - Again...
-Smarts - 1 - Again...

You ranking of Gagnes hands is really the only thing I have a seriousl problem with. Gagne has the absolute best hands of any of the 5, it's actually his best attribute. He can't skate with the puck and carry it in for a great scoring chance for beans but give this man a cross ice pass and he buries the freaking thing almost every time. His hands aren't great for setting up plays but for finishing, he's incredible.

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08-07-2009, 10:48 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
You ranking of Gagnes hands is really the only thing I have a seriousl problem with. Gagne has the absolute best hands of any of the 5, it's actually his best attribute. He can't skate with the puck and carry it in for a great scoring chance for beans but give this man a cross ice pass and he buries the freaking thing almost every time. His hands aren't great for setting up plays but for finishing, he's incredible.
Being able to handle a one timer is just part of having hands. I completely agree with what you said, I just think there is more. To me, having hands includes being able to dangle, and create time and space when necessary (not with speed).

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08-07-2009, 11:16 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Being able to handle a one timer is just part of having hands. I completely agree with what you said, I just think there is more. To me, having hands includes being able to dangle, and create time and space when necessary (not with speed).

I would catagorize that as more "creativity" than "hands". If you go by your thinking then John LeClair had below average hands but did you ever see some with a better one timer??? (possibly Kerr but Johnny L was pretty damned awesome too).

Gagne doesn't flub a pass very often (either giving the pass or recieving it). I just think his ranking here should be at the top for those 5 guys.

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08-07-2009, 12:54 PM
  #25
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I prefer to think of it not in terms of Gagne being ranked too low, but the other 3 being ranked very high. We have a lot of offensive talent on this team.

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