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Zherdev is now a UFA. Should Lombardi Go After Him?

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Old
08-05-2009, 03:27 AM
  #76
Legionnaire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8 View Post
Other than that stretch from 07-08 (including a bit of the most recent season), when has he been anything else? To me, he lost a bit of his legitimacy as a top-6'er after he dissapeared down the stretch.

Count me as someone who thinks that he will never score above 30 goals again


Yes, because down the stretch there was absolutely no reason at all to explain Brown's disappearance.

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08-05-2009, 03:31 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Primakov! View Post
http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpool_linecombo.php

The link takes you to a page that will generate a report of all the line combination involving a particular player for a specific season. Selecting Kopitar generates a massive list, but the top four in the list shows the following:

585 even strength shifts with O'Sullivan - Kopitar - Frolov
362 even strength shifts with Frolov - Kopitar - Brown
250 even strength shifts with Frolov - Kopitar - Williams
224 even strength shifts with Frolov - Kopitar - Simmonds

It appears you had a stronger case when using 2007-2008 data.

188 even strength shifts with O'Sullivan - Kopitar - Frolov
92 even strength shifts with Frolov - Kopitar - Cammalleri
26 even strength shifts with Frolov - Kopitar - Nagy
It still doesn't really dispute his point considering that last year our offense sucked with them taking that many shifts together. Just sayin'

It's true. Frolov likes the puck on his stick and Kopitar is more comfortable with it on his. They're not the best fit.

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08-05-2009, 03:53 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
I have a feeling most of the people who want Zherdev don't have a lot of confidence in Williams.
I actually have a lot of confidence in Williams. It would just be great to get a 24 year old top 6 forward. However, I would understand if it doesn't get done due to character issues.

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08-05-2009, 03:57 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post


Yes, because down the stretch there was absolutely no reason at all to explain Brown's disappearance.
I guess I can't say whether or not the baby is the reason, because it's a pretty personal thing, but at the same time, can it really be said that it is a reason?

I have never seen the big thing that everyone has about Dustin. From what I have seen (limited viewings), he's not even close to Deadmarsh. Until Brown learns to drive to the net regularily (and doing that one stupid move that worked 5 times before defenseman got wise doesn't count), I can't really say that he is a top-line forward.

And also, what has Brown done outside of 07-08? The guy gets kind of overrated around here IMHO

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08-05-2009, 04:07 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8 View Post
can it really be said that it is a reason?
Of course it can. He's not a robot. Its one of the most distracting things that can happen to a person, and for good reason. If it didn't effect him every waking moment while he was wondering if and when his newborn was going to get out of an incubator, I'd be worried.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8 View Post
I have never seen the big thing that everyone has about Dustin. From what I have seen (limited viewings), he's not even close to Deadmarsh. Until Brown learns to drive to the net regularily (and doing that one stupid move that worked 5 times before defenseman got wise doesn't count), I can't really say that he is a top-line forward.

And also, what has Brown done outside of 07-08? The guy gets kind of overrated around here IMHO
Well he isn't Deadmarsh, and ideally Brown is your 2nd line winger. On a stacked Detroit or 1996 like Colorado team Brown is a 3rd line forward, but in the real world he is a top sixer and he will score 30 goals again. He likely won't do it every year, but odds are he will pot 30 once, if not a few more times in his career. He also has time to turn into Deadmarsh.

But I will agree he needs to work on his one on one moves.

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08-05-2009, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Of course it can. He's not a robot. Its one of the most distracting things that can happen to a player, and for good reason. If it didn't effect him every waking moment while he was wondering if and when his newborn was going to get out of an incubator, I'd be worried.



Well he isn't Deadmarsh, and ideally Brown is your 2nd line winger. On a stacked Detroit or 1996 like Colorado team Brown is a 3rd line forward, but in the real world he is a top sixer and he will score 30 goals again. He likely won't do it every year, but odds are he will pot 30 once, if not a few more times in his career. He also has time to turn into Deadmarsh.

But I will agree he needs to work on his one on one moves.
I really don't want to sound like I'm coming from a position of arguing with this, because neither I nor you know the full extent of what happened.

So I won't.

But I will just say this - the really good players come to play, no matter what. I truly feel that Brown finishing the season at all was a mistake, he should have taken the rest of the season off for leave with the child. With that said, if he's going to show up to the rink, and get top-6 minutes, I expect him to play. And, I know he was obviously in distress, but, I mean, who knows what the situation could be.

But I don't really just base it on that. As I said, how can Brown be a powerforward and not consistently drive to the net? It's beyond me that only Handzus, who has been recovering from injuries, is the only guy in the system *until Smyth* that has had the guts to go to the front of the net. Even though whenever Kopitar drives to the net, he create success. Same for Brown to a lesser extent

He may never have the guts that Deadmarsh had (or possibly he may not lack the skill at all). whether he can develop it is a question we will know the answer to when the time comes. But to me, Deadmarsh is a special player in Kings history, not unlike Gretzky or Vachon. Of course, that opinion will be somewhat unpopular, but he was one of the few players that has lead the Kings past the 1st round.

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08-05-2009, 10:11 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by kingsin2017 View Post
I'd say yes to a one-year deal only. Because let's face it, when your offense was as bad as ours was last year, it's hard to not want to add a scorer (even though the Rangers struggled scoring and still didn't want him). He can play left wing, an area we're lacking in even with the Smyth trade.

We have the cap space for this year, but not in future years. If he works out, we can find a way to keep him. If not, he's gone in a year when the cap goes down.

That said I don't think Dean cares for Zherdev one bit. He's been trying to acquire character players with playoff success, which doesn't fit Zherdev at all. I believe Dean is trying to create a culture of winning right now and doesn't think Zherdev adds to that direction.
agree with a 1-yr deal scenario and also agree that DL most likely doesn't like him... Having too many scorers would be a good problem to have for a change.

and OT, your screen name depreses me - a lot!... I really don't want to wait that long! What was your 2nd choice?

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08-05-2009, 12:07 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
At first I thought the Rags killed Columbus in that trade but Tyutin for Zherdev doesn't look bad anymore...
Surprised me that most people around here thought that. I remember telling my brother when that trade happened that Tyutin was easily the best player involved.

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08-05-2009, 12:23 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post


Yes, because down the stretch there was absolutely no reason at all to explain Brown's disappearance.
I seem to remember hearing that he was fighting through a (groin?) injury for the last month of the season. They didn't talk about it until the very end of the year, but I'm pretty sure I heard Bob & Jim bring it up at least once. Does anyone else remember this?

I think, as the new captain, he was trying to play through the pain (both emotional and physical) to show his leadership skills. A true Lombardi guy.

The question is did he help or hurt the team in doing so?

For the record, I think he will not only surpass 30 goals, but he will lead the NHL in hits in a season again before he is done. I love watching Brownie play.

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08-05-2009, 02:59 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by imissgretzky View Post
I seem to remember hearing that he was fighting through a (groin?) injury for the last month of the season. They didn't talk about it until the very end of the year, but I'm pretty sure I heard Bob & Jim bring it up at least once. Does anyone else remember this?

I think, as the new captain, he was trying to play through the pain (both emotional and physical) to show his leadership skills. A true Lombardi guy.

The question is did he help or hurt the team in doing so?

For the record, I think he will not only surpass 30 goals, but he will lead the NHL in hits in a season again before he is done. I love watching Brownie play.
There was also the issue of his 2nd child being born premature and being in the hospital for a long stretch of time I think as well.

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08-05-2009, 04:10 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post

and OT, your screen name depreses me - a lot!... I really don't want to wait that long! What was your 2nd choice?
It doesn't really matter....The world is going to end in 2012 anyway.

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08-05-2009, 05:56 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8 View Post
. But to me, Deadmarsh is a special player in Kings history, not unlike Gretzky or Vachon. Of course, that opinion will be somewhat unpopular, but he was one of the few players that has lead the Kings past the 1st round.
Surely, you can't be serious! "somewhat unpopular?" ya think?

You would equate a guy who had basically ONE very productive year in L.A. against the best player in history who lead the Kings to their only Division title and only SCF appearance?? (and really the only "franchise goalie" this team has ever had)

Gretzky was here for 8 seasons, Deadmarsh for 114 games.

Geez, why not include Allison, he played 99 games here...

You wanna retire Deadmarsh's number too? Don't answer that!

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08-07-2009, 12:05 PM
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Now, don't jump all over me for this, but there is a certain rumour website who's latest headline says "Kings contact Zherdev"....I know its a rumour site and they are mostly bogus, but I just thought it's interesting since this is the first time we've been mentioned as a team that's even interested.

Here comes the tantrum4 bashing......

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08-07-2009, 12:15 PM
  #89
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I wouldn't mind Dean taking a chance on Zherdev. He has already proven he is a very talented offensive player. Which is what this team is sorely lacking right now. The only question is how much should he pay for someone like Zherdev?

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08-07-2009, 02:33 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
I wouldn't mind Dean taking a chance on Zherdev. He has already proven he is a very talented offensive player. Which is what this team is sorely lacking right now. The only question is how much should he pay for someone like Zherdev?
I would say 3-4 for 1 year, 2.5-3.5 for more than 1 year. 2.5 per for 2, 3.5 for 3 or more (that would assume he is Williams' eventual replacement as well.

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08-07-2009, 02:34 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8 View Post
I really don't want to sound like I'm coming from a position of arguing with this, because neither I nor you know the full extent of what happened.

So I won't.

But I will just say this - the really good players come to play, no matter what. I truly feel that Brown finishing the season at all was a mistake, he should have taken the rest of the season off for leave with the child. With that said, if he's going to show up to the rink, and get top-6 minutes, I expect him to play. And, I know he was obviously in distress, but, I mean, who knows what the situation could be.

But I don't really just base it on that. As I said, how can Brown be a power forward and not consistently drive to the net? It's beyond me that only Handzus, who has been recovering from injuries, is the only guy in the system *until Smyth* that has had the guts to go to the front of the net. Even though whenever Kopitar drives to the net, he create success. Same for Brown to a lesser extent

He may never have the guts that Deadmarsh had (or possibly he may not lack the skill at all). whether he can develop it is a question we will know the answer to when the time comes. But to me, Deadmarsh is a special player in Kings history, not unlike Gretzky or Vachon. Of course, that opinion will be somewhat unpopular, but he was one of the few players that has lead the Kings past the 1st round.
The reason Deadmarsh is revered here is he was the Detroit killer in the playoffs. Otherwise if you think about it he was hurt most of the time and the one year he did play he had 29 goals and played with Allison, Palffy, and sometimes with Smoke. Also Deadmarsh only had one 30 goal season and he had Sakic as his center and Forsberg on the PP. Actually I think never had more than 22 goals in any other year with the Avs.
I love Deadmarsh but Brown is as good a player. Brown is not perfect and he did have a bad last 3rd of the season but I too think most of the issues was with his child especially being away all those excessive road games.

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08-07-2009, 02:39 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
I would say 3-4 for 1 year, 2.5-3.5 for more than 1 year. 2.5 per for 2, 3.5 for 3 or more (that would assume he is Williams' eventual replacement as well.
Or....sign him for 10 years at

$5 million
$5 million
$3 million
$3 million
$2 million
$2 million
$1 million
$1 million
$750 thousand
$750 thousand

Cap hit of $2.35 million.

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08-07-2009, 02:53 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
Or....sign him for 10 years at

$5 million
$5 million
$3 million
$3 million
$2 million
$2 million
$1 million
$1 million
$750 thousand
$750 thousand

Cap hit of $2.35 million.
Well come on, that's obvious. I was trying to be creative...

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