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Kings Top-10 Prospects (as voted by us)

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Old
08-08-2009, 02:40 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
Why? Schenn's pretty much proven as much at the junior level as Hickey. Does the WJC make that much of a difference?

I don't see how Hickey has more potential. At best Schenn could be a number one/two center in the Mike Richards mold, and Hickey at best could be Rafalski with maybe better leadership.

I don't know who most people would pick, but I'd pick Mike Richards every day.
Yet, Rafalski has played in five Stanley Cup Finals(3 wins), while Richards has yet to play in even one.

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08-08-2009, 02:48 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
Why? Schenn's pretty much proven as much at the junior level as Hickey. Does the WJC make that much of a difference?

I don't see how Hickey has more potential. At best Schenn could be a number one/two center in the Mike Richards mold, and Hickey at best could be Rafalski with maybe better leadership.

I don't know who most people would pick, but I'd pick Mike Richards every day.
Yes, but Hickey has done far more to reach this potential than Schenn has done.

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08-08-2009, 02:52 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8 View Post
IMHO, I don't think you could say that Bernier or Schenn are our number 1 prospect at this point. You could obviously make the argument for Hickey and Moller for being it, but not the former two.

We cannot say that Bernier is our number 1 prospect until he puts forth a consistent pro-season. He has all the potential in the world, but he has to make good on it by refining his mental game.

Schenn is probably one of the more safe prospects, and I dont think his ceiling is as high as Hickey's, and is a little higher than Moller's. But Schenn is farther away from the NHL than Moller (obviously), so he is less safe than Moller (and his slightly greater potential does not compensate for that), whereas Hickey probably has more potential than Schenn, and is at least as safe as Schenn considering that he has been in the system for a couple of years.

Moller is our safest prospect, and so can be considered our number 1 prospect in that he will for sure make the NHL, and Hickey is our prospect with the greatest potential relative to closeness to the NHL.
Yes, cause Hickey and Schenn have put up loads of successful pro seasons so far, o and don't forget the 40 games Oscar played!!!! To say you can't see how Bernier could be number 1 is kinda weird to me, especially since his upside is "franchise goaltender" there are very few things I would take before a franchise goalie.

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08-08-2009, 03:04 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
Yes, cause Hickey and Schenn have put up loads of successful pro seasons so far, o and don't forget the 40 games Oscar played!!!! To say you can't see how Bernier could be number 1 is kinda weird to me, especially since his upside is "franchise goaltender" there are very few things I would take before a franchise goalie.
Moller may not have put up the points all the time, but he has the mental consistency to back it up, a characteristic which is a hallmark of Hickey's.

Bernier has all the talent in the world, but there are for more talented goalies who lack the proper mental game to be in the NHL than there are goalies with a strong mentality who lack the talent.

The point is that Bernier can have the talent of Patrick Roy, but without the mental game to back it up, he will not be a franchise goaltender.

Goalies are far more complicated than to say "they have potential, all they have to do is reach it"

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08-08-2009, 03:22 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8 View Post
Moller may not have put up the points all the time, but he has the mental consistency to back it up, a characteristic which is a hallmark of Hickey's.

Bernier has all the talent in the world, but there are for more talented goalies who lack the proper mental game to be in the NHL than there are goalies with a strong mentality who lack the talent.

The point is that Bernier can have the talent of Patrick Roy, but without the mental game to back it up, he will not be a franchise goaltender.

Goalies are far more complicated than to say "they have potential, all they have to do is reach it"
It's the same thing here, consistency???? Moller has played half a season you/I have no idea what consistency for him is..... and to call Bernier out because of a lack of consistency(mental or any other kind) is a little harsh, considering almost every player has trouble with consistency in their early Pro-years.

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08-08-2009, 03:29 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
It's the same thing here, consistency???? Moller has played half a season you/I have no idea what consistency for him is..... and to call Bernier out because of a lack of consistency(mental or any other kind) is a little harsh, considering almost every player has trouble with consistency in their early Pro-years.
Well by consistency, I mean that he was pretty bad in Manchester after Quick got called up instead of him, and than turned it around later in the year.

The point being that, we don't yet know whether Bernier has the mental game to be an NHL'er. We know that Moller does.

I guess I'm not very confident abo Bernier. It's hard to unlearn some bad mental aspects

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08-08-2009, 05:02 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Thrice View Post
Yet, Rafalski has played in five Stanley Cup Finals(3 wins), while Richards has yet to play in even one.
Richards has not played with either the best goaltender of the last 10/15 years nor one of the best D-men of all time. Nope instead, he helped to carry his team back from obscurity to respectability in a very short amount of time.

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08-08-2009, 05:03 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8 View Post
Yes, but Hickey has done far more to reach this potential than Schenn has done.
Such as? Get older?

And good for him. Glad he didn't die.

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08-08-2009, 05:10 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
Such as? Get older?

And good for him. Glad he didn't die.
Well being considered Canada's best defenseman is a start, and yes, getting more experience has a big part to play in it, showing consistency even on mediocre teams, and looking solid in the AHL. Schenn has played on a line with Glennie - who knows?

What makes Schenn better than Hickey anyway? I see Schenn becoming a 60-70 point 2-way center, whereas Hickey looks like he can become a top-2 defenseman, but who knows.

Also, I find it funny that you compare Brian Rafalski and Mike Richards even though...

- You are comparing player comparables. It would be like comparing Hawerchuk vs. Yzerman in a Tavares vs. Stamkos debate.

- I don't know if Brayden Schenn will ever get 80 points, but consider me skeptical. I like Hickey's chances of getting 40 points much more

- Rafalski is mediocre-to-train-wreck in his own zone. Hickey is considered a very responsible 2-way defenseman, and he specifically worked on defense last year. Also, he does hit, and doesn't project to be soft like Rafalski.

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08-08-2009, 05:12 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
Richards has not played with either the best goaltender of the last 10/15 years nor one of the best D-men of all time. Nope instead, he helped to carry his team back from obscurity to respectability in a very short amount of time.
Mike Richards certainly was a major contributor, but "carry his team on his back" he certainly did not. If anything, getting Kimmo Timonen probably worked out to be their most important move, as well as getting Brayden Coburn, and seeing Jeff Carter have an impressive season this year, not even considering the acquiring of guys like Lupul, Hartnell and Briere

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08-08-2009, 05:35 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8 View Post
Mike Richards certainly was a major contributor, but "carry his team on his back" he certainly did not. If anything, getting Kimmo Timonen probably worked out to be their most important move, as well as getting Brayden Coburn, and seeing Jeff Carter have an impressive season this year, not even considering the acquiring of guys like Lupul, Hartnell and Briere
Re-read.

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08-08-2009, 05:38 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8 View Post
What makes Schenn better than Hickey anyway? I see Schenn becoming a 60-70 point 2-way center,
You say that like its a bad thing. You do realize this is what Kopitar is at the moment?

And why must you always be reminded that stats are just a part of the story?

If Schenn becomes a 60-70 point center who is also capable of shutting down another team's top line AND plays and leads like Dustin Brown, how is that so clearly worse than Hickey becoming a 40 point two-way top pairing dman? Are we all of a sudden expecting Hickey to be Scott Neidermeyer?

If you thought that Schenn is just going to be a 3rd line center, or a 40-50 point Horcoff type player, then I can see how you would think Hickey is clear cut better (even though I would disagree), however you openly admit to believing that Schenn will become basically as good as Kopitar is now.

All that said, I do have Schenn at 4 on my list, but purely for the reason of how far away from impacting the team I believe he is. His upside is the only thing that gets him in the top 5 for me. I don't see him making an impact until 2011, 2010 if we are veeery lucky, while I see Moller, Hickey and Bernier making an impact this year or next at the latest. None of that takes away from Schenn's potential being very close to Moller and Hickey's.

And if we are talking pure potential, then I think Bernier wins hands down on that list anyways.

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08-08-2009, 05:45 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8 View Post
Well being considered Canada's best defenseman is a start, and yes, getting more experience has a big part to play in it, showing consistency even on mediocre teams, and looking solid in the AHL. Schenn has played on a line with Glennie - who knows?

What makes Schenn better than Hickey anyway? I see Schenn becoming a 60-70 point 2-way center, whereas Hickey looks like he can become a top-2 defenseman, but who knows.

Also, I find it funny that you compare Brian Rafalski and Mike Richards even though...

- You are comparing player comparables. It would be like comparing Hawerchuk vs. Yzerman in a Tavares vs. Stamkos debate.

- I don't know if Brayden Schenn will ever get 80 points, but consider me skeptical. I like Hickey's chances of getting 40 points much more

- Rafalski is mediocre-to-train-wreck in his own zone. Hickey is considered a very responsible 2-way defenseman, and he specifically worked on defense last year. Also, he does hit, and doesn't project to be soft like Rafalski.
When was he ever considered Canada's best defensemen?

I really hope you're not referring to the one time he was named player of the game, against Germany in the prelims. Because if so, that's just trying way to hard to pump up a guy who shouldn't need any pumping up if he truly is our best prospect.

He doesn't project to be as soft as Rafalski? Rafalski isn't soft, but like Lubo, there's only so much you can do with a 6'4 235 lb forward when you're only 5'10. Simple fact. Hickey will have to play the exact same game as Rafalski, Timonen, Visnovsky etc to be able to stick in the NHL. He's not soft but he's not Chris Chelios either.

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08-08-2009, 05:51 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
You say that like its a bad thing. You do realize this is what Kopitar is at the moment?

And why must you always be reminded that stats are just a part of the story?

If Schenn becomes a 60-70 point center who is also capable of shutting down another team's top line AND plays and leads like Dustin Brown, how is that so clearly worse than Hickey becoming a 40 point two-way top pairing dman? Are we all of a sudden expecting Hickey to be Scott Neidermeyer?

If you thought that Schenn is just going to be a 3rd line center, or a 40-50 point Horcoff type player, then I can see how you would think Hickey is clear cut better (even though I would disagree), however you openly admit to believing that Schenn will become basically as good as Kopitar is now.

All that said, I do have Schenn at 4 on my list, but purely for the reason of how far away from impacting the team I believe he is. His upside is the only thing that gets him in the top 5 for me. I don't see him making an impact until 2011, 2010 if we are veeery lucky, while I see Moller, Hickey and Bernier making an impact this year or next at the latest. None of that takes away from Schenn's potential being very close to Moller and Hickey's.

And if we are talking pure potential, then I think Bernier wins hands down on that list anyways.
That's my reasoning as well. There's no reason to think that Schenn's ceiling is any lower than Hickey's at this point.

I don't necessarily disagree that Hickey could turn out to be the best, but at this point to say with any certaintity that he will, is fairly foolish.

Fact is, like with all our other prospects, we don't know jack until they step on the ice and play a season or two. As Kings fans I hoped we've learned at least this much. Because if not, we all must feel pretty cheated by missing the Stanley Cup that Jamie Storr, Wayne McBean, Pavel Rosa, and Jared Aulin led us to.

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08-08-2009, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
You say that like its a bad thing. You do realize this is what Kopitar is at the moment?

And why must you always be reminded that stats are just a part of the story?

If Schenn becomes a 60-70 point center who is also capable of shutting down another team's top line AND plays and leads like Dustin Brown, how is that so clearly worse than Hickey becoming a 40 point two-way top pairing dman? Are we all of a sudden expecting Hickey to be Scott Neidermeyer?

If you thought that Schenn is just going to be a 3rd line center, or a 40-50 point Horcoff type player, then I can see how you would think Hickey is clear cut better (even though I would disagree), however you openly admit to believing that Schenn will become basically as good as Kopitar is now.

All that said, I do have Schenn at 4 on my list, but purely for the reason of how far away from impacting the team I believe he is. His upside is the only thing that gets him in the top 5 for me. I don't see him making an impact until 2011, 2010 if we are veeery lucky, while I see Moller, Hickey and Bernier making an impact this year or next at the latest. None of that takes away from Schenn's potential being very close to Moller and Hickey's.

And if we are talking pure potential, then I think Bernier wins hands down on that list anyways.
Yeah my point is that Schenn's potential isn't as sure as Hickey's. Though I still think Hickey has more potential whereas Schenn is the safer pick. But I still think that, even as a safe pick, Schenn is still behind Hickey as far as being close to the NHL.


@Legionnaire
Well as far as Canada's best defenseman, it would probably be one of Canada's best defenseman, top-4, and I dont think that Schenn can be considered one of Canada's top-4 centers at this point.

And I dont see why Hickey has to play that same game. He is even known as being a good hitter, even for a small guy. He can play the game of a Timonen and such, but I dont feel like he has to.

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08-08-2009, 06:04 AM
  #41
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Who are you comparing Hickey to, and who are you comparing Schenn to?

Isn't there a pretty big dropoff in talent and potential from Hodgson, Tavares compared to Subban and Ellis?

How is that any way to evaluate a prospect?








It's the game he plays now. He's just not going to be able to bang the same way and be as physically effective against men as he has been against boys. That's why he'll have to adjust his game a bit. But since physical play isn't his bread and butter, he should be okay.

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08-08-2009, 06:14 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8 View Post
Yeah my point is that Schenn's potential isn't as sure as Hickey's. Though I still think Hickey has more potential whereas Schenn is the safer pick.
Unless I'm misinterpreting, that is a stark contradiction.
If your point is that Schenn's potential isn't as sure as Hickey's (meaning that Schenn is less likely to hit his potential), then Hickey would have to be the safer pick, despite their respective potentials.

Doesn't matter either way though, Moller is going to be the next Alfredsson and blow 'em all out of the water anyways

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08-08-2009, 10:50 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
Such as? Get older?

And good for him. Glad he didn't die.

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08-09-2009, 02:29 PM
  #44
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How would you guys describe your prospect Trevor Lewis? type of player? skills?

Thanks


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08-09-2009, 02:40 PM
  #45
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On another hand how would you guys describe your prospect Trevor Lewis? type of player? skills?

Thanks
A young Todd Marchant.


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08-09-2009, 02:52 PM
  #46
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Take the political discussion to the lounge or PM's. This thread is for prospect talk.

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08-10-2009, 06:18 AM
  #47
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We Have Expectations...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chugnz33 View Post
How would you guys describe your prospect Trevor Lewis? type of player? skills?

Thanks

Most of us here project him to be centering our 4th line this year... or one of the first call ups if a forward is injured.
He has speed, hits a bit, shoots right handed, scores some, passes well enough & pretty good on face offs...
Still learning as far as NHL level goes. He played Wing most of his time up with the Kings last season and Center in Manchester.
So he is versatile that will help him alot!

At least that is how I see him many of us really liked what he did in his time up with the Kings last season...
We are hopeful for Trevor to make the club in the next two seasons.


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08-10-2009, 11:41 PM
  #48
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New prospect grades are up!

They downgraded Moller to a 7.5B.

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08-11-2009, 01:10 AM
  #49
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Legionaire has been wrong about anything I've ever read him say regarding the most recent era of Kings management (which is as long as I've been trolling these boards) this is of course, no exception. I ask again how someone with 26K posts can know zero about the game of hockey at the ice level. If you can't see what Hickey brings to the table, shoo along to baseball which is 99% about statistical information and stay away from the sports where what you can't interpret through simple numbers, have a much more dramatic effect on a game.

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08-11-2009, 01:13 AM
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by the way, Bernier absolutely blew everyone out of the water in the most recent goaltending camp. wasnt even close.

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