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Manny Fernandez offered deal by the habs (2way)

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Old
08-08-2009, 04:21 AM
  #101
MaynardJames
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Anyone that thinks Price should not be our true number 1 goaler should have a look at that guy in New Jersey and compare some stats. Don't forget to look what age he were when he start.

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08-08-2009, 07:21 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by MaynardJames View Post
Anyone that thinks Price should not be our true number 1 goaler should have a look at that guy in New Jersey and compare some stats. Don't forget to look what age he were when he start.
Exactly! Expectations have been too high on Price, way too soon...hang in there guys, he will deliver!

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08-08-2009, 07:35 AM
  #103
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He's a decent tender. I hope this goes down

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08-08-2009, 08:14 AM
  #104
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If signing Fernandez allows options with deals later, then bring it on. It doesn't mean a deal has to happen though.

On the other hand, it is amazing how this whole Halak Price thing constantly plays out in threads. Seems like we have to have a total loser for a back-up to avoid this crap.

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08-08-2009, 08:44 AM
  #105
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IMHO people are reading this rumour all wrong. Well, granted it is already the most tenuous "rumour" in the history of rumours already and has absolutely no substantiation whatsoever. Eklund's e1's are more substantiated.

But even if you take it at the face value of having been offered to Fernandez "at some point", then it's only sensible to assume that point was prior to the Sanford signing. I bet Gainey had similar offers out to at least half a dozen potential #3 goalies. All ticketed for Hamilton. All ticketed as the next Marc Denis. None of whose presence would have any bearing whatsoever on the default status of Price and Halak. Fernandez would have thought he could do better than a #3 job in the AHL. Sanford was willing to be our #3. End of story. That's what my razor suggests, anyway, if this rumour was true.

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08-08-2009, 09:46 AM
  #106
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Listened to CKAC from 5: 00 PM until I got home around 7:00 PM, and heard NOTHING about this said rumor. It's ********.

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08-08-2009, 11:18 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by PATCHESx67 View Post


MTL Trades

Plecks,Hammer,2nd round pick

To FLO for

Nathan Horton 3rd pick
this proposal is a big joke .

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08-08-2009, 11:25 AM
  #108
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this proposal is a big joke .
LOL was just about to post this. Plek, hammer and a 2nd for Horton? FLA laughs and hangs up the phone.

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08-08-2009, 11:27 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
Per Eric Engels and CKAC
we need more grit right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manny_Fernandez_(wrestler)

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08-08-2009, 11:50 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaynardJames View Post
Anyone that thinks Price should not be our true number 1 goaler should have a look at that guy in New Jersey and compare some stats. Don't forget to look what age he were when he start.

Anyone who thinks that Price should be annointed our starter should look at Jim Carey , Andrew Raycroft and compare some stats. Don't forget to look at his age and where and when he start.



For every one Broduer there are 10 players that never fufill there potential why annoint a 21 year old our number one and let go of a 23 year old who has outplayed him? Is it because Price is Canadian and a high draft pick because nothing but a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow called potential goes in Price's favor at this time. Can Carey find this imagined pot of gold? Possibly but right now its only a belief and no one knows if he can ever get there.

If Bob trades Halak we could be looking at Kipper/Vokoun all over again. Condsider that before you condsider Price the next Broduer because mine is more likely than yours.

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08-08-2009, 11:56 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by KadoCH View Post
Anyone who thinks that Price should be annointed our starter should look at Jim Carey , Andrew Raycroft and compare some stats. Don't forget to look at his age and where and when he start.



For every one Broduer there are 10 players that never fufill there potential why annoint a 21 year old our number one and let go of a 23 year old who has outplayed him? Is it because Price is Canadian and a high draft pick because nothing but a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow called potential goes in Price's favor at this time. Can Carey find this imagined pot of gold? Possibly but right now its only a belief and no one knows if he can ever get there.

If Bob trades Halak we could be looking at Kipper/Vokoun all over again. Condsider that before you condsider Price the next Broduer because mine is more likely than yours.
229 posts in 5 years and all you spew is negative crap? I guess I shoulden't be surprised, this is Montreal. Lets see if that Crystal Ball of yours is up to snuff...

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08-08-2009, 11:56 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by sammy d View Post
Halak is better than Fernandez, case closed.
Manny's stats last season:
28 Games - 16 wins, 8 loses and 3 ties with a 2.59 goals against and .910 save percentage.


Jaro's stats last season:

34 Games - 18 wins, 14 loses and 1 tie with a 2.86 goals against and .915 save percentage.

I would have to say they are pretty similar and Fernandez would be that veteran goalie to be there to help guide Price and to mentor. Halak and Price have too much of a competition, not a mentoring relationship or leader to bring a young goalie along which Price needs and as does Halak.

Halak can bring a decent player back to Montreal in a package deal, and Fernandez brings experience and quality goaltending as a back up, a role he is willing to accept.

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08-08-2009, 12:43 PM
  #113
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So, no one else actually heard this and everything is just going off of what a guy from hockeybuzz said ?

Fernandez won't accept a two-way contract.

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08-08-2009, 12:45 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
IMHO people are reading this rumour all wrong. Well, granted it is already the most tenuous "rumour" in the history of rumours already and has absolutely no substantiation whatsoever. Eklund's e1's are more substantiated.

But even if you take it at the face value of having been offered to Fernandez "at some point", then it's only sensible to assume that point was prior to the Sanford signing. I bet Gainey had similar offers out to at least half a dozen potential #3 goalies. All ticketed for Hamilton. All ticketed as the next Marc Denis. None of whose presence would have any bearing whatsoever on the default status of Price and Halak. Fernandez would have thought he could do better than a #3 job in the AHL. Sanford was willing to be our #3. End of story. That's what my razor suggests, anyway, if this rumour was true.
This.

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Old
08-08-2009, 12:54 PM
  #115
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If I start a rumor thread with a completely fabricated rumor, is anyone with me to see if Hockeybuzz picks it up?

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Old
08-08-2009, 01:09 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KadoCH View Post
Anyone who thinks that Price should be annointed our starter should look at Jim Carey , Andrew Raycroft and compare some stats. Don't forget to look at his age and where and when he start.



For every one Broduer there are 10 players that never fufill there potential why annoint a 21 year old our number one and let go of a 23 year old who has outplayed him? Is it because Price is Canadian and a high draft pick because nothing but a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow called potential goes in Price's favor at this time. Can Carey find this imagined pot of gold? Possibly but right now its only a belief and no one knows if he can ever get there.

If Bob trades Halak we could be looking at Kipper/Vokoun all over again. Condsider that before you condsider Price the next Broduer because mine is more likely than yours.
Jim Carey was only good for a short period of time. The year he made his first steps(28GP) and the following one where he became the #1 Goalie playing 70Games. His numbers were never as good as the year of his first steps though.

Raycroft only had 1 good season, his rookie one. After that it was horrible.

Price has shown moments of brilliance but at the same time, he's shown inconsistency.
That is in no way comparable to what Carey/Raycroft showed.
He's proved how good his potential is, now it's all about finding the consistency in his play and that comes with experience/maturity.

Your comparison is bad for so many reasons. I'm not saying comparing him to Brodeur makes more sense, both are just bad imo.

The best comparison to date for me is the one of Fleury.
Both were pretty much given the role of #1 from the start. Both were extremely young. Both showed moments of brilliance one night and then the other looked like an AHL worthy goalie. In other words, both were inconsistent.
Let's see how Price bounces back next year. It took Fleury 3-4years before really settling in and although he won a cup last year, he still struggles a bit. Luckily he has Malkin, Staal, Crosby, Gonchar in front of him. Price doesn't have that luxury.

Sure, maybe Halak will be the next Vokoun. Just like Price could be the next Vokoun(and better) if we trade him as well.
One thing for sure, only one will have an opportunity to reach his max potential with the Habs seeing as both need a lot of playing time. Unfortunately, one will have to be let go and obviously it looks like it'll be Halak.

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Old
08-08-2009, 01:15 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Manny's stats last season:
28 Games - 16 wins, 8 loses and 3 ties with a 2.59 goals against and .910 save percentage.


Jaro's stats last season:

34 Games - 18 wins, 14 loses and 1 tie with a 2.86 goals against and .915 save percentage.

I would have to say they are pretty similar and Fernandez would be that veteran goalie to be there to help guide Price and to mentor. Halak and Price have too much of a competition, not a mentoring relationship or leader to bring a young goalie along which Price needs and as does Halak.

Halak can bring a decent player back to Montreal in a package deal, and Fernandez brings experience and quality goaltending as a back up, a role he is willing to accept.
Why don't you post Price's stats a long with that.

Funny how when Price and Halak are compared - stats don't matter. It's age and potential.

But when Halak is being compared to another goalie - it's all good!

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08-08-2009, 01:17 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KadoCH View Post
Anyone who thinks that Price should be annointed our starter should look at Jim Carey , Andrew Raycroft and compare some stats. Don't forget to look at his age and where and when he start.



For every one Broduer there are 10 players that never fufill there potential why annoint a 21 year old our number one and let go of a 23 year old who has outplayed him? Is it because Price is Canadian and a high draft pick because nothing but a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow called potential goes in Price's favor at this time. Can Carey find this imagined pot of gold? Possibly but right now its only a belief and no one knows if he can ever get there.

If Bob trades Halak we could be looking at Kipper/Vokoun all over again. Condsider that before you condsider Price the next Broduer because mine is more likely than yours.
Like going out on a limb there eh?

So then Price has to become the next Brodeur to justify trading Halak who will then be the next Vokoun? Or are you saying we wait for Price to become the next Brodeur first, which will stop Halak from becoming the next Vokoun until then?

By the way, Vokoun became the next . . . who?

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Old
08-08-2009, 01:22 PM
  #119
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If I start a rumor thread with a completely fabricated rumor, is anyone with me to see if Hockeybuzz picks it up?
already been done.. and it worked.

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Old
08-08-2009, 01:29 PM
  #120
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LOL was just about to post this. Plek, hammer and a 2nd for Horton? FLA laughs and hangs up the phone.
Uh, Horton is losing value every day in Florida and doesn't have an immense amount of trade value these days. If you ask me, Montreal is the loser in that deal.

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08-08-2009, 01:32 PM
  #121
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So should I still start a rumor?

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08-08-2009, 01:48 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Manny's stats last season:
28 Games - 16 wins, 8 loses and 3 ties with a 2.59 goals against and .910 save percentage.


Jaro's stats last season:

34 Games - 18 wins, 14 loses and 1 tie with a 2.86 goals against and .915 save percentage.

I would have to say they are pretty similar and Fernandez would be that veteran goalie to be there to help guide Price and to mentor. Halak and Price have too much of a competition, not a mentoring relationship or leader to bring a young goalie along which Price needs and as does Halak.

Halak can bring a decent player back to Montreal in a package deal, and Fernandez brings experience and quality goaltending as a back up, a role he is willing to accept.
Fernandez played on a better team that gave up far fewer quality shots and that provided far more offensive support. If Fernandez played in Montreal last year, all his stats would be significantly worse. I don't trust his ability anymore and I certainly don't trust his durability.

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08-08-2009, 01:51 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Why don't you post Price's stats a long with that.

Funny how when Price and Halak are compared - stats don't matter. It's age and potential.

But when Halak is being compared to another goalie - it's all good!
Price:

Year Team GP GS MIN W L T OTL EGA GA GAA SA SV SV% SO
2007-08 MON 41 40 2413 24 12 0 3 2 103 2.56 1282 1179 .920 3
2008-09 MON 52 49 3036 23 16 0 10 4 143 2.83 1513 1370 .905 1
Career 93 89 5449 47 28 0 13 6 246 2.71 2795 2549 .912 4

Halak:

2006-07 MON 16 16 912 10 6 0 0 2 44 2.89 469 425 .906 2
2007-08 MON 6 4 285 2 1 0 1 0 10 2.11 151 141 .934 1
2008-09 MON 34 33 1931 18 14 0 1 0 92 2.86 1077 985 .915 1
Career 56 53 3128 30 21 0 2 2 146 2.80 1697 1551 .914 4

There, compare now too.

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08-08-2009, 02:06 PM
  #124
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229 posts in 5 years and all you spew is negative crap? I guess I shoulden't be surprised, this is Montreal. Lets see if that Crystal Ball of yours is up to snuff...
No go read my post history, I have backed Halak from day one if you could go read the old Montoya v. Price threads on the prospect board I always said Halak could be just as good and will continue to back him. I'm not saying Price can't be great all I'm saying is I'm not ready to annoint Price and replying to someone comparing Price to Broduer by saying there is only one Broduer, Roy, Dryden but there are hundreds of Raycrofts and Carey's out there.


I'm a realist I don't need 3500 posts because I don't get worked up over every little thing or complain when someone makes a valid point I've backed Carey in other threads I just don't think he is better than Halak right and now and may never be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Jim Carey was only good for a short period of time. The year he made his first steps(28GP) and the following one where he became the #1 Goalie playing 70Games. His numbers were never as good as the year of his first steps though.

Raycroft only had 1 good season, his rookie one. After that it was horrible.

Price has shown moments of brilliance but at the same time, he's shown inconsistency.
That is in no way comparable to what Carey/Raycroft showed.
He's proved how good his potential is, now it's all about finding the consistency in his play and that comes with experience/maturity.

Your comparison is bad for so many reasons. I'm not saying comparing him to Brodeur makes more sense, both are just bad imo.

The best comparison to date for me is the one of Fleury.
Both were pretty much given the role of #1 from the start. Both were extremely young. Both showed moments of brilliance one night and then the other looked like an AHL worthy goalie. In other words, both were inconsistent.
Let's see how Price bounces back next year. It took Fleury 3-4years before really settling in and although he won a cup last year, he still struggles a bit. Luckily he has Malkin, Staal, Crosby, Gonchar in front of him. Price doesn't have that luxury.

Sure, maybe Halak will be the next Vokoun. Just like Price could be the next Vokoun(and better) if we trade him as well.
One thing for sure, only one will have an opportunity to reach his max potential with the Habs seeing as both need a lot of playing time. Unfortunately, one will have to be let go and obviously it looks like it'll be Halak.

I was using and equally bad comparison to get my point across, that comparing him to Broduer is just as bad as comparing him to Raycroft or Carey because he is Carey Price not any of those three. His numbers now don't correlate to anyone except him self.

My point is I don't want either to go right now if we hold onto them both for two more seasons giving about 46-36 split or 50-32 then we can see. I don't want to lose either it will happen eventually but not this year simply because I know goalies take a while to develop and I'm not ready to give Carey the baton yet when he is being out played by a very talented young goalie. You've said Fleury and I've used Ward as an example in other threads when talking about Price, Halak, and Mason they can show flashes but few will dominate until 24-26 range and I want to see how both our goalies play at that age.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
Like going out on a limb there eh?

So then Price has to become the next Brodeur to justify trading Halak who will then be the next Vokoun? Or are you saying we wait for Price to become the next Brodeur first, which will stop Halak from becoming the next Vokoun until then?

By the way, Vokoun became the next . . . who?
All I did was show a comparison the same as the other guy that it could go either way same with Halak who has better numbers than Price neither have to become Broduer but why trade a 23 year old goalie so a 21 year old can start even though he hasn't played as well as the 23 year old?

Vokoun is a 2-time NHL all star and holds a career .915 SV% in over 500 games played. 5 of his last 6 seasons his played at least 59 games and had a sv% of atleast .918 on so-so teams like Nashville and Florida. He is one of the top 6 Goalies in the league right now and has been for 5 years. A model of consistency, but Theodore has been great for the Habs right? Thanks for coming out stick to junior hockey.

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Old
08-08-2009, 02:09 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Price:

Year Team GP GS MIN W L T OTL EGA GA GAA SA SV SV% SO
2007-08 MON 41 40 2413 24 12 0 3 2 103 2.56 1282 1179 .920 3
2008-09 MON 52 49 3036 23 16 0 10 4 143 2.83 1513 1370 .905 1
Career 93 89 5449 47 28 0 13 6 246 2.71 2795 2549 .912 4

Halak:

2006-07 MON 16 16 912 10 6 0 0 2 44 2.89 469 425 .906 2
2007-08 MON 6 4 285 2 1 0 1 0 10 2.11 151 141 .934 1
2008-09 MON 34 33 1931 18 14 0 1 0 92 2.86 1077 985 .915 1
Career 56 53 3128 30 21 0 2 2 146 2.80 1697 1551 .914 4

There, compare now too.
What's this prove? I'm not quite sure.

That Halak has posted just as many shutouts in almost 40 less games?

Or that Halak and Price's stats are eerily similar? (Check AHL/CHL for similar comparison).

Or that Halak has a 0.566 WIN% to Price's 0.534 WIN%?

Or that Halak played playoff teams 10% more than Price last season?

Or that Halak posted very similar in-game stats to Price as a 21-year old in the NHL? (2.89 GAA, .906 SV%, 2 shutouts - 2.83 GAA, .905 SV%, 1 shutout).


I noticed you left out playoff stats for your "argument" as well. Good choice.


And PS. How why did you compare Price versus Halak in the first place? I was simply saying if that argument can be used to say Price is better than Halak - then why use common sense when comparing Halak and Manny?

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