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Interview: Kirill Kabanov, by Alessandro Seren Rosso

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Old
08-11-2009, 12:22 PM
  #26
Kevin Forbes
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Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
That may be true, but he would still develop better in Russia. He is too young to leave.
I don't know the player, so I can't speak to that at all. If he's "too young" to leave, is he too young to play a regular role at the KHL level?

The answer to that question leads to another: which is better for his development: playing a minor role in the KHL or a top line role in the QMJHL?

Again, I do not know the player and I can't say where he is at on his developmental curve, but obviously the focus of the KHL as a professional league is quite different from the QMJHL and the other CHL leagues as a major junior league.

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08-11-2009, 12:24 PM
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What if he just "leaves" so to say, i mean Alex Radulov did it(different league i know) in the middle of a contract so whats to stop him from just ditching his KHL contract for the CHL, unless the Russian Mob puts a gun to his head saying play here!

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08-11-2009, 12:26 PM
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The answer to that question leads to another: which is better for his development: playing a minor role in the KHL or a top line role in the QMJHL?
Playing a minor role in the KHL of course.

In Ufa he gets to regularly play AND PRACTICE with players such as Alexander Radulov, Nikolai Zherdev, Viktor Kozlov, Sergei Zinovyev and Alexander Perezhogin. If and hopefully when he manages to secure a spot on this team he could not ask for a better environment to develop.

Hopefully Slava Bykov will give him all the chances to get a big role on the team unless he is totally overwhelmed by the KHL (which I doubt).

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08-11-2009, 12:34 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
Playing a minor role in the KHL of course.

In Ufa he gets to regularly play AND PRACTICE with players such as Alexander Radulov, Nikolai Zherdev, Viktor Kozlov, Sergei Zinovyev and Alexander Perezhogin. If and hopefully when he manages to secure a spot on this team he could not ask for a better environment to develop.

Hopefully Slava Bykov will give him all the chances to get a big role on the team unless he is totally overwhelmed by the KHL (which I doubt).
Zherdev isnt in Ufa yet

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08-11-2009, 12:34 PM
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LOL, hes projected to go at least top 3 next year, I'm sure every other team in the NHL would make room for him in a second.
I made a huge understatement on purpose. The guy's the next big Russian thing.

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08-11-2009, 12:59 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
Playing a minor role in the KHL of course.

In Ufa he gets to regularly play AND PRACTICE with players such as Alexander Radulov, Nikolai Zherdev, Viktor Kozlov, Sergei Zinovyev and Alexander Perezhogin. If and hopefully when he manages to secure a spot on this team he could not ask for a better environment to develop.

Hopefully Slava Bykov will give him all the chances to get a big role on the team unless he is totally overwhelmed by the KHL (which I doubt).
You do realize that players practice with pro players regardless, right? For instance, Tavares plays in the CHL, but during the summers he's often skating with guys like Nash, Wolski and others. I guess you didn't know that though, judging by your opinion.

Personally, I'd rather have him be a top line player with the pressure to put up points night in and night out, rather then him just riding the pine and trying to develop via practice.

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08-11-2009, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by The Scouting Report View Post
You do realize that players practice with pro players regardless, right? For instance, Tavares plays in the CHL, but during the summers he's often skating with guys like Nash, Wolski and others. I guess you didn't know that though, judging by your opinion.

Personally, I'd rather have him be a top line player with the pressure to put up points night in and night out, rather then him just riding the pine and trying to develop via practice.
Key term here. During the summer. Kabonov would be doing it during the season. I also assume Russian practice is different to North American practice.;

If Kabanov can get ten minutes a night in Ufa, then its definitely a better option than the QMJHL.

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08-11-2009, 01:16 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by The Scouting Report View Post
You do realize that players practice with pro players regardless, right? For instance, Tavares plays in the CHL, but during the summers he's often skating with guys like Nash, Wolski and others. I guess you didn't know that though, judging by your opinion.

Personally, I'd rather have him be a top line player with the pressure to put up points night in and night out, rather then him just riding the pine and trying to develop via practice.
But that's only summer, Kabanov would do that all year long...

And regarding your second phrase yeah, I'd agree, but if he can get a role in Ufa then it'd be better for him there IMO

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08-11-2009, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Key term here. During the summer. Kabonov would be doing it during the season. I also assume Russian practice is different to North American practice.;

If Kabanov can get ten minutes a night in Ufa, then its definitely a better option than the QMJHL.
Personally I would really contest that notion. I really don't see how playing 10 or so minutes a game as a depth player is better then playing 25-30 minutes a night in all situations in one of the top junior leagues in the world.

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08-11-2009, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
But that's only summer, Kabanov would do that all year long...

And regarding your second phrase yeah, I'd agree, but if he can get a role in Ufa then it'd be better for him there IMO
Either way, we'll agree to disagree..

Nice job on the interview, though!

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08-11-2009, 01:21 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by TheBakester66 View Post
Alessandro, I'm curious.... Do you think this is the way the best russian prospects will start heading? Play for the junior national team, maybe in some russian junior league games, and then move to the CHL, USHL, other Euro Juniors (whatever), before being drafted?

I certainly think there is something significant to be said about the uncertainty of prospects when it comes to how tied-down their futures are. It just shows the extreme need for a transfer agreement between the KHL and NHL. It looks to me like Medvedev is really digging his own grave here, a situation where the best talent is afraid to play for his own home country's league. Without signing that top talent in the KHL, they lose them without any compensation at all, and no money flows from the NHL into the KHL.

I know the KHL's senior staff is extremely stubborn, but eventually they'll have to realize it's in their best interest to keep the best talent, and let the kids decide if they want to stay (like sergei mozyakin) or if they want to go (like Malkin and Ovechkin). Pushing them away by scare-tactics and fine print contractual obligations will only hurt the KHL in the future.

-Chris
Chris. I do believe that for Kabanov and for European players in general is better to develop at home. More time to grow, more practice, less distractions, etc. And Kabanov has all the talent of the world, but he's yet to get anything from it.

Regarding Medvedev's and KHL's politics, well, I don't agree too much. Yeah, they are playing hard ball, maybe too hard, but all in all, the best players will go to the NHL anyway and the KHL will remain a strong league anyway. But I think that the ties between the two leagues should be a tad less critic and it would go to both league's interest.

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08-11-2009, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by The Scouting Report View Post
Personally I would really contest that notion. I really don't see how playing 10 or so minutes a game as a depth player is better then playing 25-30 minutes a night in all situations in one of the top junior leagues in the world.
Come on, playing 10-15 minutes a night in the second best league in the world is a HUGE thing for a 17 years old, waaaaay better than playing against peers in a junior league, no matter how good the junior league is.

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08-11-2009, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by The Scouting Report View Post
Personally I would really contest that notion. I really don't see how playing 10 or so minutes a game as a depth player is better then playing 25-30 minutes a night in all situations in one of the top junior leagues in the world.
At Kabanov's age Ovechkin and Malkin played less than 10 minutes a game with their Superleague clubs, but got to train with experienced good players at the same time.

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08-11-2009, 01:31 PM
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Personally I would really contest that notion. I really don't see how playing 10 or so minutes a game as a depth player is better then playing 25-30 minutes a night in all situations in one of the top junior leagues in the world.
I donīt understand this NA way of thinking at all. What are you guys expecting that a 17 year old kid will be playing 30 minutes a night amongst men? Every players starts on the 4th line and learns from play, from the older players and can develop and advance to the higher lines later. Thousands of players have developed this way, most of the best did and it did not hurt anyone.

Just because a lot of kids who are talented are too lazy to fight for their chance and believe that 25 minutes of playing time should fall to them from heaven and then they go on complainig about too little ice-time....

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08-11-2009, 01:38 PM
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He thinks a team from the QMJHL could compete against KHL teams? Well...he may not know much about hockey but he can play, that's all that matters.

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08-11-2009, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by slovakiaforever View Post
I donīt understand this NA way of thinking at all. What are you guys expecting that a 17 year old kid will be playing 30 minutes a night amongst men? Every players starts on the 4th line and learns from play, from the older players and can develop and advance to the higher lines later. Thousands of players have developed this way, most of the best did and it did not hurt anyone.

Just because a lot of kids who are talented are too lazy to fight for their chance and believe that 25 minutes of playing time should fall to them from heaven and then they go on complainig about too little ice-time....
The guy gets to be the focal offensive point of the teams he plays for all along the way, instead of going from a marginal player to a top 6 player.

I don't think anyone will argue that both methods have produced great players, but the fact that he'd get to be a major force for 1-2 years before entering the NHL gives him a step ahead at an offensive forward position (i.e. top 6) than a player that has been playing sparingly during the same time frame, even if it's against tougher competition.

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08-11-2009, 02:03 PM
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I donīt understand this NA way of thinking at all. What are you guys expecting that a 17 year old kid will be playing 30 minutes a night amongst men? Every players starts on the 4th line and learns from play, from the older players and can develop and advance to the higher lines later. Thousands of players have developed this way, most of the best did and it did not hurt anyone.

Just because a lot of kids who are talented are too lazy to fight for their chance and believe that 25 minutes of playing time should fall to them from heaven and then they go on complainig about too little ice-time....
I'm not really sure what you're getting at. Most of the top players in the CHL never spend any time on the fourth line of any team, save for an international team perhaps.

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08-11-2009, 02:04 PM
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The guy gets to be the focal offensive point of the teams he plays for all along the way, instead of going from a marginal player to a top 6 player.

I don't think anyone will argue that both methods have produced great players, but the fact that he'd get to be a major force for 1-2 years before entering the NHL gives him a step ahead at an offensive forward position (i.e. top 6) than a player that has been playing sparingly during the same time frame, even if it's against tougher competition.
That's what I was getting at. Obviously both routes work, but personally I would rather have a player logging major minutes and being counted on to produce every night for his team to have a chance to win, rather then just be a passenger along for the ride.

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08-11-2009, 02:05 PM
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After watching the Shirokov/Parshin/Dadonov ordeal, it seems like avoiding the KHL completely is the only option for young players that want to play in the NHL, with the SPC clauses that prevent RFA's from moving. It seems like his only options are to play in a lower/junior league in Russia or to move to another country.

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08-11-2009, 02:13 PM
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I'm not really sure what you're getting at. Most of the top players in the CHL never spend any time on the fourth line of any team, save for an international team perhaps.
And whoīs talking about CHL players here? I was talking about Europeans, most of the best of them had to go the same way right from the bottom of the 4th line...You believe that it is better for him to play major minutes alongisde a bunch of kids most of whom will have trouble getting at least one professional contract in their career rather than play some quality minutes (and yes 10-15 minutes for Kabanovīs age is quality minutes in the KHL) and train (not just in the summer) with some of the top players in Europe in a league, from where even the weakest team would kick ass of the Memorial Cup Champions, and yes they would, of course youīre not going to believe this, because CHL fans donīt seem to understand the difference between junior and senior hockey...and IMO if Kabanov is as good as he is supposed to be there is no problem with the fact that heīll start on the 4th line, heīll be able to force his way through up to better ice-time.

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08-11-2009, 02:16 PM
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And whoīs talking about CHL players here? I was talking about Europeans, most of the best of them had to go the same way right from the bottom of the 4th line...You believe that it is better for him to play major minutes alongisde a bunch of kids most of whom will have trouble getting at least one professional contract in their career rather than play some quality minutes (and yes 10-15 minutes for Kabanovīs age is quality minutes in the KHL) and train (not just in the summer) with some of the top players in Europe in a league, from where even the weakest team would kick ass of the Memorial Cup Champions, and yes they would, of course youīre not going to believe this, because CHL fans donīt seem to understand the difference between junior and senior hockey...and IMO if Kabanov is as good as he is supposed to be there is no problem with the fact that heīll start on the 4th line, heīll be able to force his way through up to better ice-time.
So what happens if Salavat brings in Zherdev, now Kabanov's sliding down the depth chart even more on a stacked team. What if he doesn't have a great start? The coach isn't going to feed him minutes when he's getting paid to win. Is Kabanov really going to get 15 minutes a game? I was under the impression he would be fighting to get 10, yet now he's getting 15?

By the same token I could easily just assume that most European posters fail to acknowledge that quality of the CHL and the shear number of exceptional prospects that it continues to churn out every single season.

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08-11-2009, 02:18 PM
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And whoīs talking about CHL players here? I was talking about Europeans, most of the best of them had to go the same way right from the bottom of the 4th line...You believe that it is better for him to play major minutes alongisde a bunch of kids most of whom will have trouble getting at least one professional contract in their career rather than play some quality minutes (and yes 10-15 minutes for Kabanovīs age is quality minutes in the KHL) and train (not just in the summer) with some of the top players in Europe in a league, from where even the weakest team would kick ass of the Memorial Cup Champions, and yes they would, of course youīre not going to believe this, because CHL fans donīt seem to understand the difference between junior and senior hockey...and IMO if Kabanov is as good as he is supposed to be there is no problem with the fact that heīll start on the 4th line, heīll be able to force his way through up to better ice-time.
I take exception to that. Most CHL hockey fans realise that the KHL or even NCAA are men playing boys. But the CHL is a great way for young men with talent be it good or exceptional to be able to compete at a high level day in and day out with people their own age. Kabanov would get HUGE minutes in Moncton and where they are in a position to make a good run at the Mem Cup he would get great exposure as well as expereince. If he chooses the KHL Great for him. If he chooses the CHL thats great for him and Me . But whatever way he goes some people are never going to be happy.

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08-11-2009, 02:41 PM
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Come on, playing 10-15 minutes a night in the second best league in the world is a HUGE thing for a 17 years old, waaaaay better than playing against peers in a junior league, no matter how good the junior league is.
Well, honestly, I don't see where he fits in in Salavat. The best thing for him would have been to stay put in Moscow.

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08-11-2009, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by slovakiaforever View Post
I donīt understand this NA way of thinking at all. What are you guys expecting that a 17 year old kid will be playing 30 minutes a night amongst men? Every players starts on the 4th line and learns from play, from the older players and can develop and advance to the higher lines later. Thousands of players have developed this way, most of the best did and it did not hurt anyone.

Just because a lot of kids who are talented are too lazy to fight for their chance and believe that 25 minutes of playing time should fall to them from heaven and then they go on complainig about too little ice-time....
I love almost all of your posts, none more than this one. If this type of league actually existed in america (if for instance the AHL did not have an age limit, and 14 year olds could play here), North Americans would feel very different about the KHL as a developmental league. I mean come on, if you had John Tavares drafted into the NHL at 16, you'd want him in the NHL playing 3rd (or maybe even 2nd) line against the best, and learning what it takes to be the best, and if it's a bit lesser player that wasn't that "ready" at 16, he could play 1st or 2nd line in the AHL, with the most NHL ready prospects.

This gives russian prospects strong perspective about what it takes to play at the highest levels, and what is required to continue to be successful as talent is not all you need to carry you.

Guys like Kabanov, Tavares, Pulkkinen, Hall, Granlund, Hedman, etc. would all benefit from playing against men. I think Hedman proved that.

That said: I do think that talents not quite ready or developed at 16 (unlike 6'3", 180 lbs. of Kabanov or Hedman) do need a place to play where they can really improve themselves and give themselves a chance to grow in confidence against competition that is more on their level, without getting buried and giving up. But certainly for the top talents, i completely agree.


-Chris

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08-11-2009, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TheBakester66 View Post
I love almost all of your posts, none more than this one. If this type of league actually existed in america (if for instance the AHL did not have an age limit, and 14 year olds could play here), North Americans would feel very different about the KHL as a developmental league. I mean come on, if you had John Tavares drafted into the NHL at 16, you'd want him in the NHL playing 3rd (or maybe even 2nd) line against the best, and learning what it takes to be the best, and if it's a bit lesser player that wasn't that "ready" at 16, he could play 1st or 2nd line in the AHL, with the most NHL ready prospects.

This gives russian prospects strong perspective about what it takes to play at the highest levels, and what is required to continue to be successful as talent is not all you need to carry you.

Guys like Kabanov, Tavares, Pulkkinen, Hall, Granlund, Hedman, etc. would all benefit from playing against men. I think Hedman proved that.

That said: I do think that talents not quite ready or developed at 16 (unlike 6'3", 180 lbs. of Kabanov or Hedman) do need a place to play where they can really improve themselves and give themselves a chance to grow in confidence against competition that is more on their level, without getting buried and giving up. But certainly for the top talents, i completely agree.


-Chris
Totally agree with this on many levels.

I'd also like to mention it's fairly humbling for those players who also get to learn directly from pro players with a baggage of experience. They could probably all mature faster this way.

HOWEVER, the thing about playing as a role player against adults is you don't play a lot and don't get to shape your offensive game as much. Not to mention the fact that a mirror league in NA would be more problematic, as you normally want defensively responsible players in your bottom 6 on the smaller rinks, which will hinder offensive development for these players (like John Tavares playing on a 3rd line in the AHL as a 16 yr old wouldn't get nearly the same offensive liberties as he would in the O).

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