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Official - Canucks Agree in Principle on Deal with Sergei Shirokov

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Old
08-11-2009, 11:01 PM
  #976
windflare
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Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
The results are actually surprising:

NJ: Parise/Elias
PIT: Malkin/Crosby
PHI: Richards/Carter
VAN: Sedin/Sedin
WSH: Ovechkin/Backstrom/Semin

Calgary also had 2 PPG players last season but lost Cammalleri to Montreal
I think you can safely say that Detroit has 2 PPG players too, despite the injury-inflicted anomally in Zetterberg's numbers last year.

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08-11-2009, 11:02 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by windflare View Post
I think you can safely say that Detroit has 2 PPG players too, despite the injury-inflicted anomally in Zetterberg's numbers last year.
True, the same also probably applies to Tampa Bay.

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08-11-2009, 11:48 PM
  #978
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The point is that the Canucks have some relatively high end guys in the Sedins, and if they can develop the second tier of 40-50 point scorers on their second and third lines, they should be able to have a top five offense.

Obviously, there's still some work to be done on the defense though.

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08-12-2009, 12:13 AM
  #979
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Good offense always starts from good defense and good puck movement from the backend, no matter how good your forwards are.

Unfortunately, we seem to be missing that dynamic skating presence on the backend as of now.

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08-12-2009, 01:08 AM
  #980
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Originally Posted by windflare View Post
Good offense always starts from good defense and good puck movement from the backend, no matter how good your forwards are.

Unfortunately, we seem to be missing that dynamic skating presence on the backend as of now.
It's not horrible by any means - the Canucks lack that big impact guy, but Bieksa is a good skater, and Salo / Edler have good first passes.

People were making a huge ballyhoo about Calgary adding Bouwmeester to a defense with Regehr and Phaneuf - but what was missed was that the Canucks current top 4 handily outscored the Flames current top 4 last season, even with Salo missing 20 games.

I think that a puck moving defenseman would be nice, certainly, but isn't a necessity. Although it might be a stretch to see Mitchell match or exceed his 23 points last season, you could definitely see more from Edler, and Salo should be good for more than the 25 points he put up, especially in the goals column. The primary goal should be finding a guy who is good skater, solid positionally, and can put up 20-25 points to pair with Bieksa or Edler.

Getting to a top 5 defense would involve bringing in a high impact guy, but it's probably just not in the Canucks cards this season. Still, I think they have a top 10 defense if they add that extra solid piece.

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08-12-2009, 01:18 AM
  #981
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Based on the video, Shirikov has good hands, he can score and he can make plays. Remains to be seen if he can backcheck and play in the corners.

It wouldn't be fair to characterize him as forcing a trade, its more like the other way around - being forced to sign a contract.

I really really really don't like the part about him telling everyone who will listen that he's going to the NHL - its very naive of him - if he doesn't make the team or spends the whole season in manitoba, it could be very embarrassing and demoralizing for him. Not counting the 4th line (i'm not sure what to think of the "honing your offensive skills" value and the point of playing a guy like that for 7 minutes per game with 2 of Johnson, Hordichuk and Rypien), there are 12 forwards (Sed Sed Sam Dem Hod Kes Bur Wel Ber Ray Han Gra) ahead of him in the pecking order with only 9 spots available. 4 players need to be injured or traded before he gets to plays for the Vancouver Canucks. The problem hardly gets better next year when Schroeder and Rodin will also be vying for a spot on the team. At least by then the 4th line may be a more decent offensive trio.

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08-12-2009, 01:23 AM
  #982
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omg you guys the solution is so simple!

ok we need a puckmover right?

let's just put one of our many forwards on defense!

DUHHHHH

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08-12-2009, 01:34 AM
  #983
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Based on what he's shown in the KHL, I'd expect Shirokov to be well ahead of Raymond/Hansen/Wellwood on the depth chart.

Putting up 41 points in 56 games is no mean feat there - he's in the top 25 forwards in that league, which should easily make him a top six player in the NHL. If you look at some players who have had successful NHL seasons recently, like Jagr, Yashin, and Radulov, and compare their NHL totals to their KHL totals, you'll see that the KHL is far from pond hockey.

I think a reasonable projection would be 40-50 points. It would be good to hear more about his two-way game, but from what I can recall of the reports we've heard, he plays in all three zones.

I think the stereotype here is that Russian players only think about the offensive end. It's worth mentioning that both Datsyuk and Fedorov are Russian, and are among the best two-way players the league has seen in recent years.

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08-12-2009, 01:35 AM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Cao View Post
omg you guys the solution is so simple!

ok we need a puckmover right?

let's just put one of our many forwards on defense!

DUHHHHH
You mean like putting Demitra on the point on the PP?

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Old
08-12-2009, 01:46 AM
  #985
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Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
Based on what he's shown in the KHL, I'd expect Shirokov to be well ahead of Raymond/Hansen/Wellwood on the depth chart.

Putting up 41 points in 56 games is no mean feat there - he's in the top 25 forwards in that league, which should easily make him a top six player in the NHL. If you look at some players who have had successful NHL seasons recently, like Jagr, Yashin, and Radulov, and compare their NHL totals to their KHL totals, you'll see that the KHL is far from pond hockey.

I think a reasonable projection would be 40-50 points. It would be good to hear more about his two-way game, but from what I can recall of the reports we've heard, he plays in all three zones.

I think the stereotype here is that Russian players only think about the offensive end. It's worth mentioning that both Datsyuk and Fedorov are Russian, and are among the best two-way players the league has seen in recent years.
This guy apparently ran Shirokov's numbers (although I have no idea as to what method he used):

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBakester66 View Post
Based on an projections from every season of data i have for shirokov averaged for 2009-10, it says that if he follows the average path of every other KHL convert, he's a 60 pt NHL player. Why? Because he's already 23 year old, playing in THE most difficult league in the world to score points in, and he has been extremely successful in doing just that. This isn't a 17 year old russian prospect, this guy has been playing pro hockey for 4 seasons already. This will be his 5th. I think many people on these boards underestimate the difficulty of the KHL. The KHL makes defensemen and goalies look fantastic, and makes offense talents look pretty weak in general.

I stand by the software in this case (though certainly not all).

-Chris
60 pts out of an ELC would be mighty nice.

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08-12-2009, 01:53 AM
  #986
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I just can't see Shirokov putting up 60 points. I'd be happy if he gets at least 40.

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08-12-2009, 02:05 AM
  #987
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Originally Posted by NorthVanCanuck View Post
I just can't see Shirokov putting up 60 points. I'd be happy if he gets at least 40.
Me neither, but damn it would be nice if he did .

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08-12-2009, 02:09 AM
  #988
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How many of us should actually be able to see him doing, or not doing, anything this season? It's not like he has been very accessible to watch or follow closely.

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08-12-2009, 03:14 AM
  #989
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Originally Posted by MW View Post
How many of us should actually be able to see him doing, or not doing, anything this season? It's not like he has been very accessible to watch or follow closely.
I did. And being CSKA Moscow's top scorer speaks for itself, IMHO

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08-12-2009, 03:27 AM
  #990
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Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
I did. And being CSKA Moscow's top scorer speaks for itself, IMHO
Exactly and he is a young kid who was a leader on the team. He will be a year older and he has consistently improved throughout his career. I also hear he can take a hit as well as give them, he isn't a soft player who loses puck battles and flops around on the ice like a fish out of water like Raymond.

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08-12-2009, 03:41 AM
  #991
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Exactly and he is a young kid who was a leader on the team. He will be a year older and he has consistently improved throughout his career. I also hear he can take a hit as well as give them, he isn't a soft player who loses puck battles and flops around on the ice like a fish out of water like Raymond.
I wouldn't call him soft. Lets just say, light on his feet.

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08-12-2009, 03:44 AM
  #992
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Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
I did. And being CSKA Moscow's top scorer speaks for itself, IMHO
This is kind of what I'm getting at. His accomplishments and reports from people who have watched him all speak for themselves. Obviously he'll adapt to the North American game at his own rate, but I don't see how so many people from Vancouver, most of which haven't seen him play outside of Youtube, are so qualified to talk about how they do or don't expect him to put up X number of points or play on X line.

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08-12-2009, 03:45 AM
  #993
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Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
I did. And being CSKA Moscow's top scorer speaks for itself, IMHO
Right, but with Shirokov/Parshin I think the sum was greater than the individual parts to an extent.

Look what happened to Nikulin in the same situaton......not that I'm comparing Shirokov to Nikulin talent wise because Shirokov easily has NHL talent level.

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08-12-2009, 05:24 AM
  #994
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Based on the video, Shirikov has good hands, he can score and he can make plays. Remains to be seen if he can backcheck and play in the corners.

It wouldn't be fair to characterize him as forcing a trade, its more like the other way around - being forced to sign a contract.

I really really really don't like the part about him telling everyone who will listen that he's going to the NHL - its very naive of him - if he doesn't make the team or spends the whole season in manitoba, it could be very embarrassing and demoralizing for him. Not counting the 4th line (i'm not sure what to think of the "honing your offensive skills" value and the point of playing a guy like that for 7 minutes per game with 2 of Johnson, Hordichuk and Rypien), there are 12 forwards (Sed Sed Sam Dem Hod Kes Bur Wel Ber Ray Han Gra) ahead of him in the pecking order with only 9 spots available. 4 players need to be injured or traded before he gets to plays for the Vancouver Canucks. The problem hardly gets better next year when Schroeder and Rodin will also be vying for a spot on the team. At least by then the 4th line may be a more decent offensive trio.
I get what you are saying about him being presumptuous about making the team, but that is normal among those already in the league. You wouldn't hear Demitra being concerned about being demoted to the Moose after he signed his contract, ditto for Sundin. Obviously the chances of that happening are slim with those players, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that Shirokov makes the team this season. Despite all of their public posturing about playing the best player available regardless of contract, I would have to think that he was all but guaranteed a spot in the line-up if he made the leap. I don't think Gillis would have pursued him if he planned to send him to Manitoba, since it would have been unfair to him, since he could have remained in Russia and made more money.

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Old
08-12-2009, 08:43 AM
  #995
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Originally Posted by FruityPants3 View Post
We have a lot of midrange forward depth. Not nearly the depth in high end talent that some teams have, but the young 20g/50p player seems to be what Gillis after. It's a nice luxury that in case of injury or cold streaks you can shuffle similar players around.
20g/50p players are much more than just a nice luxury in the NHL... these are $3+mill players (past their ELCs) and legitimate quality 2nd line forwards in the NHL... if you can ice 2 full lines of 50pt players, while having 2 PPG forwards on your top line, you're deeper than pretty much any other NHL team overall in terms of offense.

The other huge bonus with such players is longterm salary... PPG forwards have much higher salary numbers overall, and make it difficult for teams to build a lineup with any depth overall.

The Canucks offense is in very good shape right now, and moving forward over the next few years... the Sedins are legit top line producers, and with Hodgson they have a safe bet for another top line capable forward in the future... with the rest of their depth - Kesler, Burrows, Samuelsson, and with development from Bernier, Raymond, Grabner, Shirokov and Schroeder, they can potentially ice a quality 1st line, with 2 strong 2nd lines behind it.... someone from that group through will be traded in the coming year(s) ... when you throw in Wellwood/Demitra now, and then Hansen, possibly Rodin in the future - there just won't be enough room for all those forwards in the top 3 lines.

Most teams in the NHL just don't have that kind of "luxury".

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08-12-2009, 09:31 AM
  #996
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Originally Posted by MW View Post
...I don't see how so many people from Vancouver, most of which haven't seen him play outside of Youtube, are so qualified to talk about how they do or don't expect him to put up X number of points or play on X line.
Man, this is nothing, you should check out the Hodgson threads.

I have absolutely no idea what this draft pick of Nonis's will accomplish - could be absolutely anything from 60 pt player to not making it out of training camp. Here's hoping that (a) he actually plays over here and (b) he does well.

 
Old
08-12-2009, 10:53 AM
  #997
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Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
I did. And being CSKA Moscow's top scorer speaks for itself, IMHO
Does Shirokov speak any English ?

Does he play hard every shift ?

Is he brave on the ice - will he take a check to make a play ?

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08-12-2009, 03:25 PM
  #998
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So an RFA needs to pay 2/3 of their previous years salary or qualifying offer salary? A player earning $1M would need to pay $667k, whether they have 2 years, 1 year, or have already completed their contract?

I find in interesting that a 17 year old needs to buy out a contract to move to Junior. This is a concern of mine about young russian players who want to play in the NHL. They will need to commit to coming over to North America at a very young age.
For RFAs itís 2/3 qualifying offer, although I believe you technically need to sign the contract to use the buyout provision, but itís the same thing.

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08-13-2009, 10:17 AM
  #999
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so is shirokov in Vancouver yet? Any news?

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08-13-2009, 11:09 AM
  #1000
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
20g/50p players are much more than just a nice luxury in the NHL... these are $3+mill players (past their ELCs) and legitimate quality 2nd line forwards in the NHL... if you can ice 2 full lines of 50pt players, while having 2 PPG forwards on your top line, you're deeper than pretty much any other NHL team overall in terms of offense.

The other huge bonus with such players is longterm salary... PPG forwards have much higher salary numbers overall, and make it difficult for teams to build a lineup with any depth overall.

The Canucks offense is in very good shape right now, and moving forward over the next few years... the Sedins are legit top line producers, and with Hodgson they have a safe bet for another top line capable forward in the future... with the rest of their depth - Kesler, Burrows, Samuelsson, and with development from Bernier, Raymond, Grabner, Shirokov and Schroeder, they can potentially ice a quality 1st line, with 2 strong 2nd lines behind it.... someone from that group through will be traded in the coming year(s) ... when you throw in Wellwood/Demitra now, and then Hansen, possibly Rodin in the future - there just won't be enough room for all those forwards in the top 3 lines.

Most teams in the NHL just don't have that kind of "luxury".
Is this kind of depth a necessity? No. So it's a luxury. I'm not sure why you take issue with my terminology. I agree with everything else you said.

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