HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Rangers walk away from Zherdev arbitration ruling (Update: KHL Rumor False)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-12-2009, 11:55 AM
  #576
SomebodySaveKreider
Registered User
 
SomebodySaveKreider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 2,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Drury was one of my favorite players out there. I might have said something inappropriate out of frustration of his miserable tenure in NYR.
As Ranger fans we've seen worse. lol

SomebodySaveKreider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 12:08 PM
  #577
gravytrain6t
Registered User
 
gravytrain6t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,867
vCash: 500
Zherdev can (I won't whip out any youtube clips) take the puck coast to coast and score a goal. I think he's tough. I've never seen Kovalev drop the gloves. I'm not so sure that Kovalev is, or will have proven when all is said and done, that he is a better player than Zherdev. Z has plenty of time left to play in the NHL, but that's not even my point.

I'm thinking maybe it's possible Kovalev had the mental toughness to compete (take hits, give hits and everything that goes along with it) in the 94' playoffs because he had such a demanding coach in Mike Keenan. And Keenan as well as Messier (more than likely) had a whole year to work with Kovalev and teach him about mental preparation and what it takes to win in the NHL.

People can say Kovalev is "so much better" all they want but the media, fans and even the announcers were showing their frustration with him. Everything from "he's always trying to be to fancy," to "this friggin guy never shoots the puck!!" The Rangers brought him back a second time and it didn't work out. After that Cup year, Kovalev was far from a fan favorite.

So speaking of someone being an enigma. He was a vital part of the Rangers post season success in 1994 (if it wasn't for him, I'm not sure we win game 6 against the Devils. I know he gets overlooked because of Messier's guarantee and the subsequent hat trick but Kovalev made 2 huge plays in that game, including a goal to help the Rangers win).

Again, the whole point of this post is only to throw a few thoughts out there which, of course cannot be proven.

If Keenan stuck around another 4 years, do you think Kovalev would have been the same player we saw in the 94' post season? No one knows.

If Zherdev were to get a contract in New York and play for a demanding coach who is very high on conditioning (remember Keenan was too. He had the team riding stationary bikes and whatever other types of exercises after hockey games) and is not shy to bench players who do not seem focused or are making mental errors, how good or bad would Zherdev have been next season for this team? Once again. No one knows. All we can do is sit here and guess.


But aren't the 2 situations more similar than alike despite who's a better hockey player (Kovalev or Zherdev)?

gravytrain6t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 12:25 PM
  #578
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 11,980
vCash: 500
Remember when Tortorella labeled our team "soft-thinkers"... I think Zherdev fits that bill... He's not tough mentally... Too easy for him to take himself out of games...

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 12:41 PM
  #579
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 27,270
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
I am looking at the stats. And from what I can see, other than Kotalik's 1 season where he scored 62 pts on a run and gun Sabres team, he's been consistently around 40 pts for the last 3 seasons. Zherdev, on the other hand, has put together two 60 pt seasons and 3 of his last 4 seasons have been over 50 pts.

So history tells me that Kotalik will get another 40 pt season and Zherdev will get another 60 pt season. If anything, Kotalik is one year older and his production may even drop. The same cannot be said for Zherdev because he is just now entering his prime and may even get better.

So IMO, those extra 20 pts are worth the 0.9M he was asking for. Especially with the fact that we have almost no playmakers on this team.
Considering you arent using the normal outputs for either player I could see where you are coming from. You are using Zherdev's maximum output up to this point and Kotalik's average output over his career. If you actually look at the averages per game like I did Kotalik is the better bargain.

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 12:44 PM
  #580
HoosierDaddy
Registered User
 
HoosierDaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,016
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGoBlueshirts View Post
This is what has me most concerned. I think this is the main argument for me and the other Zherdev supporters. Although, we are a dieing breed.
The breed is still thriving, even if underground these days. It's pointless trying to talk sense the "heart & Soul" haters. He's gone. I accept it, even if it's hard to read some of the assinine comments - makes me want to respond, but then I just go to the next post.

How the Baffoon from Banf-f-f is not getting killed for this abomination of a line-up leaves me shaking my head. There's talk, or hope, that we get Heatley. What the heck for, who's going to get them the puck?

HoosierDaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 12:53 PM
  #581
HoosierDaddy
Registered User
 
HoosierDaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,016
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BayAreaRanger View Post
He should have played baseball?

I understand people not liking Drury's contract (I'm on that list), but some of the stuff said about him around here is downright ridiculous and embarrassing.

Drury got better under Torts and has been calling players like Kotalik, Gaborik and Gilroy to get them in a Ranger uniform, yet Zherdev, the guy who disappeared at the end of the playoffs is the one you want to keep?
Dreary has done Jack ***** since arriving, but the stuff about Dreary is not in the same planet as the character assasination Zherdev has been subjected to. It cuts both ways.


Drury got plum ice time and was a fixture on the PP. As for his recruiting player and playing the shill for the current Garden (mis)management, he need to **** and produce. It's bad enough the Baffoon from Banf-f-f keeps zhitting the bed.

HoosierDaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 01:01 PM
  #582
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,261
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
The breed is still thriving, even if underground these days. It's pointless trying to talk sense the "heart & Soul" haters. He's gone. I accept it, even if it's hard to read some of the assinine comments - makes me want to respond, but then I just go to the next post.

How the Baffoon from Banf-f-f is not getting killed for this abomination of a line-up leaves me shaking my head. There's talk, or hope, that we get Heatley. What the heck for, who's going to get them the puck?
Most fans realize that this roster is superior to the one that opened last season.

You know, the one with Nigel Dawes and Aaron Voros in the top 6.

Its a shame your Sather hate stops you from realizing it too.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 02:43 PM
  #583
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Most fans realize that this roster is superior to the one that opened last season.

You know, the one with Nigel Dawes and Aaron Voros in the top 6.

Its a shame your Sather hate stops you from realizing it too.
No, it's not. It was bad, but better that this one. Defense was better, we had 3rd pair, we've got question mark this year. Gaborik replaced Gomez, good, but Zherdev replacement with Kotalik is a joke. Gaborik without Zherdev is nothing to write home about. We've got Avery, but we could have had him last year if not for Sather's stubbornness. Higgins is the only reason I would watch this team. I do not have any hopes for playoffs.

94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 02:49 PM
  #584
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Andolini View Post
It should be fairly obvious by now that NO team is interested in his services for that price.
Where did you get that? Are you his agent? You made two statements in one sentence. Neither is substantiated.
No one knows, even RangerBoy came empty handed. Yuo could be right, but it is far from obvious.

94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 02:49 PM
  #585
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,323
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
We've got Avery, but we could have had him last year if not for Sather's stubbornness.
Look I'm by no means a Sather hater. But he got Avery for less of a cap hit than he was willing to assume. How is that a negative?

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 02:57 PM
  #586
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,094
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Look I'm by no means a Sather hater. But he got Avery for less of a cap hit than he was willing to assume. How is that a negative?
I'm also not sure how that dismisses Avery being on the team this year, when he wasn't on the team last year.

You can't just say "Avery doesn't make this years team better than last years because Sather COULD have signed him last year and therefor last years team was theoretically better than it really was"

Levitate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 02:58 PM
  #587
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Look I'm by no means a Sather hater. But he got Avery for less of a cap hit than he was willing to assume. How is that a negative?
That was a success. However, should we had Avery at the beginning, we would not have a turmoil resulted in coach firing and losses associated with it while making the playoffs. Money saved on Avery went to Voros, Rismiller and other garbage.

94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 03:03 PM
  #588
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I'm also not sure how that dismisses Avery being on the team this year, when he wasn't on the team last year.

You can't just say "Avery doesn't make this years team better than last years because Sather COULD have signed him last year and therefor last years team was theoretically better than it really was"
Why not? It is not a roster comparison per se. It is a comparison of two Sather's summers. This year is even worse than last in THAT regard.

94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 03:06 PM
  #589
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,261
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
No, it's not. It was bad, but better that this one. Defense was better, we had 3rd pair, we've got question mark this year. Gaborik replaced Gomez, good, but Zherdev replacement with Kotalik is a joke. Gaborik without Zherdev is nothing to write home about. We've got Avery, but we could have had him last year if not for Sather's stubbornness. Higgins is the only reason I would watch this team. I do not have any hopes for playoffs.
Youre honestly saying that this year's offense isn't better/deeper than last years?

Your Avery "point" is certifiable, and the only other reason youre listing is *surprise* the loss of Zherdev (whose production will be stomped by Gaborik is hes healthy).

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 03:19 PM
  #590
Khelvan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,351
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Khelvan Send a message via AIM to Khelvan Send a message via MSN to Khelvan
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Marty Straka was a complete hockey player. He worked the boards for Jagr. In his absence Hossa did with much less success.. Jagr wasn't a compete hockey player. He was a brilliant one, though. When he had to work the boards, he never scored. Ask WAS fans.
Jaromir Jagr is one of the best players in the history of the NHL to work the boards, and score coming off the boards. He just planted is big butt facing away from them, used his wide body and tree trunk legs to block the opposition, and waited for them to give him an opening.

He is seriously one of the best players to ever play in that position, much like Joe Thornton. In the latter years of his play he was much more of a corners/boardwork player than he was one who streaked down the wing and scored. Most of his offense and scoring came off the boards.

I think the statement above, that he never scored off the boards, is as simply false as a statement can be about hockey.

Khelvan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 03:21 PM
  #591
Vito Andolini
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 923
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Where did you get that? Are you his agent? You made two statements in one sentence. Neither is substantiated.
No one knows, even RangerBoy came empty handed. Yuo could be right, but it is far from obvious.

"Hey, I'll tell you what. You can get a good look at a butcher's a$s by sticking your head up there. But, wouldn't you rather to take his word for it? No, I mean is, you can get a good look at a T-bone by sticking your head up a butcher's a$s... No, wait. It's gotta be your bull..."


Listen, you can believe whatever you want, but:

1. UFA's that are still on the market at this time of the year are pretty much guaranteed not to get top dollar. Teams have already molded their rosters and allocated their cap dollars.

Check out the previous 2 UFA transaction logs if you don't think so.

2007: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?fid=4965
2008: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?id=11353

2. There's a reason the top free agents are signed on July 1st. That reason is because there is an actual demand for the player. Teams need to compete with each other for that players services or they risk having him sign elsewhere. It is that competition which raises the player's salary.

Zherdev has been a UFA for over a week now. Also, it's been speculated the Rangers would walk away from an unfavorable arbitration award for about a month. It seems likely to me that if teams were interested in signing him for what he wanted, he would have been signed on August 4th or soon after.

Vito Andolini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 03:36 PM
  #592
AXN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,451
vCash: 500
If Zherdev can't find a team that will pay him at least 3.25 million then what was the point of asking for more from the Rangers? His agent than made a big mistake. Most likely nobody wants to sign him to a one year deal.

AXN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 03:43 PM
  #593
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,094
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Why not? It is not a roster comparison per se. It is a comparison of two Sather's summers. This year is even worse than last in THAT regard.
No, wrong. You responded to someone who was comparing the two rosters. It is a roster comparison. If it's not, then you were just setting up a strawman and then knocking it down

Levitate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 04:09 PM
  #594
beastly115
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,047
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
Considering you arent using the normal outputs for either player I could see where you are coming from. You are using Zherdev's maximum output up to this point and Kotalik's average output over his career. If you actually look at the averages per game like I did Kotalik is the better bargain.
I understand that Kotalik is a better bargain than Zherdev. But it doesn't change the fact that Kotalik won't put up as many points as Zherdev. And is that 0.9M really that significant? I argue no because as currently constructed, this team has no passers. For 0.9M more, we could have had a guy that will put up 60 pts and is actually able to pass the puck.

beastly115 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 04:18 PM
  #595
AXN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,451
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
I understand that Kotalik is a better bargain than Zherdev. But it doesn't change the fact that Kotalik won't put up as many points as Zherdev. And is that 0.9M really that significant? I argue no because as currently constructed, this team has no passers. For 0.9M more, we could have had a guy that will put up 60 pts and is actually able to pass the puck.
I don't know if Zherdev can outscore Kotalik from the third line. Kotalik might be more suited there. Plus .9 mil does help a little. I don't think Zherdev would get to the first line with the Rangers or the second. He was headed for the third line. I am pretty sure they would trade him anyway. I am just shocked that they didn't.


Last edited by AXN: 08-12-2009 at 04:25 PM.
AXN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 05:19 PM
  #596
HoosierDaddy
Registered User
 
HoosierDaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,016
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Most fans realize that this roster is superior to the one that opened last season.

You know, the one with Nigel Dawes and Aaron Voros in the top 6.

Its a shame your Sather hate stops you from realizing it too.
Talk to me when he actually accomplishes something. And I don't mean riding Gretzky's coat tails- 10 *** years folks. Put a fork in him, he'd way past done.

HoosierDaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 05:23 PM
  #597
HoosierDaddy
Registered User
 
HoosierDaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,016
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Most fans realize that this roster is superior to the one that opened last season.

You know, the one with Nigel Dawes and Aaron Voros in the top 6.

Its a shame your Sather hate stops you from realizing it too.
Don't let me dampen your excitement over the coming season, but please put down the Kool-aide. We don't have setup guys, no crease clearing defenseman (may actually have 3 green players on the back line), no PP QB and our league leading penalty kill tandem from last year is gone. OK. Whatever. Gabby of Lundqist go down we're in the Hall sweepstakes.


Last edited by HoosierDaddy: 08-12-2009 at 05:32 PM.
HoosierDaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 07:56 PM
  #598
dedalus
Registered User
 
dedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,215
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
Gabby of Lundqist go down we're in the Hall sweepstakes.
This, I think, describes the problem. We are essentially still a 2-player team, just as we were when the two players were Jagr and Lundqvist. We'll have to wait and see, but just to return to the plateau the team hit a couple years back, some players must duplicate the performances of Straka and Nylander. Can any two of Callahan, Kotalik, Higgins or Dubinsky post those kinds of performaces/numbers? I don't know. They haven't yet. Even if they succeed, though, we're probably only back to being the one-line team we were.

The long and short of it is that the team is again looking very much a playoff also-ran.

dedalus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 08:29 PM
  #599
beastly115
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,047
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AXN View Post
I don't know if Zherdev can outscore Kotalik from the third line. Kotalik might be more suited there. Plus .9 mil does help a little. I don't think Zherdev would get to the first line with the Rangers or the second. He was headed for the third line. I am pretty sure they would trade him anyway. I am just shocked that they didn't.
Kotalik may be more suited for the 3rd line, but he will not play there. He'll play 2nd line LW with Drury and Callahan on the RW.

Like I said, a 2nd line of Kotalik - Drury - Zherdev would have been great. Has a good mix of skill and talent.

beastly115 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2009, 09:32 PM
  #600
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,261
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
This, I think, describes the problem. We are essentially still a 2-player team, just as we were when the two players were Jagr and Lundqvist. We'll have to wait and see, but just to return to the plateau the team hit a couple years back, some players must duplicate the performances of Straka and Nylander. Can any two of Callahan, Kotalik, Higgins or Dubinsky post those kinds of performaces/numbers? I don't know. They haven't yet. Even if they succeed, though, we're probably only back to being the one-line team we were.

The long and short of it is that the team is again looking very much a playoff also-ran.
Honestly, what team (if any) is more than a 2-player team when it comes to legitimate stars?

Pittsburgh won the Stanley Cup, where would they be without Crosby and Malkin?

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:05 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.