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Frolov for Souray

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Old
08-12-2009, 11:08 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Anaheim could probably fit Kessel in.
I'd rather keep Bobby Ryan.

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08-12-2009, 11:50 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Zad View Post
Side note, do you all agree with me that there is one reason and one reason only that IF Frolov really is on the trading block and IF Lombardi really isn't very high on him, it is because he doesn't hit and is missing that proactive physical game?
Not really. I think its because he smiles when he misses a shot. If he screamed bloody murder every time he missed a shot or screwed a pass, DL probably wouldn't have any problem with the actual game Frolov plays I the ice. I think its all attitude DL has a problem with, not the style of play. I know DL likes his rough and tumble guys, but I don't think he is somehow opposed to having a player like Frolov who is big and strong but doesn't run people over. He went after Purcell after all, and if he expected Purcell to play that kind of game... even though he is a tall dude (assuming he put on muscle), then he is out of his ****ing mind. Frolov is tough on the puck and strong in the corners and I think Lombardi cares about that much more than he does Frolov hitting people.

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08-12-2009, 11:51 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Kings man 4 life View Post
I'd rather keep Bobby Ryan.
I?????

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Old
08-12-2009, 11:58 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Not really. I think its because he smiles when he misses a shot. If he screamed bloody murder every time he missed a shot or screwed a pass, DL probably wouldn't have any problem with the actual game Frolov plays I the ice. I think its all attitude DL has a problem with, not the style of play. I know DL likes his rough and tumble guys, but I don't think he is somehow opposed to having a player like Frolov who is big and strong but doesn't run people over. He went after Purcell after all, and if he expected Purcell to play that kind of game... even though he is a tall dude (assuming he put on muscle), then he is out of his ****ing mind. Frolov is tough on the puck and strong in the corners and I think Lombardi cares about that much more than he does Frolov hitting people.
So, if Frolov cursed ****! more, he would have 5 years at 5.5M?

Sound logic.
(yes, I realize that was tongue in cheek on your part)
Isn't the criticism on Purcell that he doesn't play a physical game and doesn't "pay" the price? Swear I read that somewhere out of Lombardi's mouth.

Frolov is strong on the puck and tough in corners (you went a little dyslexic on us) but he doesn't play the body. Kopitar doesn't play the body. With the exception of Zeus, isn't every single forward Dean has traded for been one that hits?

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08-13-2009, 12:06 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Zad View Post
So, if Frolov cursed ****! more, he would have 5 years at 5.5M?

Sound logic.
(yes, I realize that was tongue in cheek on your part)
Isn't the criticism on Purcell that he doesn't play a physical game and doesn't "pay" the price? Swear I read that somewhere out of Lombardi's mouth.

Frolov is strong on the puck and tough in corners (you went a little dyslexic on us) but he doesn't play the body. Kopitar doesn't play the body. With the exception of Zeus, isn't every single forward Dean has traded for been one that hits?
I guess when he talks about "paying" the price and all that (I remember it too... I think...) he is talking about whether or not you can take the puck from a guy one on one, and whether you loose battles one on one. Purcell loses those battles, and that is the criticism in my mind. Frolov doesn't lose those battles. Hell, Murray wanted Frolov to be a checker half the seaosn, and Frolov did it. I don't remember hearing that criticism of Frolov, and its not as if anyone is hesitant to criticize Frolov. I really just think its how often he brings that game to ice, and subsuquently questioning his attitude that would cause him to treat what DL sees as all out war as a non-chalant chess game.

I also just don't agree that Frolov doesn't play the body. Perhaps more often then not he will stick check a guy, or just strip the puck from him, but only because he excels at it so highly and it works. He doesn't shy away from taking the body, and when someone takes the body to him, he doesn't back down, like Purcell does.

Case in point:



Last edited by JDM: 08-13-2009 at 12:12 AM.
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08-13-2009, 12:10 AM
  #81
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Fun hit

Announcer nailed it. Very RB

Ok, I'll buy your argument. I am a huge Fro fan so I am easy to persuade.

So, what is it? Don't tell me because he doesn't yell JDM sucks after missing a shot

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08-13-2009, 12:17 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Zad View Post
Fun hit

Announcer nailed it. Very RB

Ok, I'll buy your argument. I am a huge Fro fan so I am easy to persuade.

So, what is it? Don't tell me because he doesn't yell JDM sucks after missing a shot
I said what I think it is, I think its because he is non chalant about his performance. Frolov doesn't seem to mind whether he has the best game of his life or the worst game. He's too carefree. DL wants accountability, and I think (I know this conjecture as to Frolov's state of mind) that DL sees Frolov's attitude (that shows itself in small ways on the ice, both in his disappearing from time to time, being streaky, and grinning like a little boy [something I think is great btw] when he misses ) as a hinderance to Frolov putting more of a load on his shoulders.

I'm not totally disagreeing with the spirit of your initial point, I do think if Frolov played more of a NA style game and drove the paint more, DL would have him under contract already. I just don't think it is about Frolov hitting people. Physical, I guess so, since driving the net is being physical, but not necessarily hitting like you had mentioned.

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08-13-2009, 12:19 AM
  #83
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Is there anything better to report in Canada? Seems like the media is always "trying" to be creative.

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08-13-2009, 12:22 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
I said what I think it is, I think its because he is non chalant about his performance. Frolov doesn't seem to mind whether he has the best game of his life or the worst game. He's too carefree. DL wants accountability, and I think (I know this conjecture as to Frolov's state of mind) that DL sees Frolov's attitude (that shows itself in small ways on the ice, both in his disappearing from time to time, being streaky, and grinning like a little boy [something I think is great btw] when he misses ) as a hinderance to Frolov putting more of a load on his shoulders.

I'm not totally disagreeing with the spirit of your initial point, I do think if Frolov played more of a NA style game and drove the paint more, DL would have him under contract already. I just don't think it is about Frolov hitting people. Physical, I guess so, since driving the net is being physical, but not necessarily hitting like you had mentioned.
I suppose you're right. Frolov is a type B personality from what I can tell.

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08-13-2009, 12:26 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Zad View Post
I suppose you're right. Frolov is a type B personality from what I can tell.
That's a good term for it. He doesn't mind taking a back seat to other players it seems. I think this means DL will only be willing to pay him like a 2nd liner (3.5-5 tops), when we all know Frolov can easily get first line money on the open market (5-6).

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08-13-2009, 12:32 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
That's a good term for it. He doesn't mind taking a back seat to other players it seems. I think this means DL will only be willing to pay him like a 2nd liner (3.5-5 tops), when we all know Frolov can easily get first line money on the open market (5-6).
Considering he was on the 3rd line (the stopper line) a lot of the season, Dean may be offering something between 2nd and 3rd line.

That is depressing.

Cannot imagine Frolov in another jersey. Honestly, if he was traded I would hope he wins the Cup and becomes an allstar.

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08-13-2009, 01:02 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Zad View Post
Considering he was on the 3rd line (the stopper line) a lot of the season, Dean may be offering something between 2nd and 3rd line.

That is depressing.

Cannot imagine Frolov in another jersey. Honestly, if he was traded I would hope he wins the Cup and becomes an allstar.
You're not alone.

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Old
08-13-2009, 03:24 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
He led the team in goals with 23
I'd argue that this more of a result of a bad collection of forwards than anything else.

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08-13-2009, 02:09 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zad View Post
Considering he was on the 3rd line (the stopper line) a lot of the season, Dean may be offering something between 2nd and 3rd line.

That is depressing.

Cannot imagine Frolov in another jersey. Honestly, if he was traded I would hope he wins the Cup and becomes an allstar.
I agree, unless D/L turns the vacant spot into Kovalchuk

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08-13-2009, 02:32 PM
  #90
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I'd argue that this more of a result of a bad collection of forwards than anything else.
How many goals did your leading defenseman get?

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08-13-2009, 03:13 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
How many goals did your leading defenseman get?
What's your point? That a defenseman whose primary asset is a CANNON shot is going to score goals? Thank you for the enlightenment. I'm seeing the game in a different way now.

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08-14-2009, 12:21 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by jimmy1100 View Post
What's your point? That a defenseman whose primary asset is a CANNON shot is going to score goals? Thank you for the enlightenment. I'm seeing the game in a different way now.
Maybe one of the reasons you guys have trouble scoring goals is because you dont have a player like Souray on your pp and in your lineup.

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08-14-2009, 12:35 AM
  #93
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That would be a very good trade for L.A.

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08-14-2009, 02:25 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Maybe one of the reasons you guys have trouble scoring goals is because you dont have a player like Souray on your pp and in your lineup.
maybe one of the reason why we are not scoring to much goals is that our defense weapons are under 20 ?????

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08-14-2009, 02:28 AM
  #95
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The contract alone is a major turn off. We can take one bad contract (Smyth) but not 2.

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08-14-2009, 03:37 AM
  #96
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I wouldn't call Souray's contract "bad." Considering what he brings, I'd say a 5.4M CAP hit is pretty reasonable.

Big strong defenseman who can fight, hit, clear the front of the net AND score, don't grow on trees.

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08-14-2009, 03:58 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
I wouldn't call Souray's contract "bad." Considering what he brings, I'd say a 5.4M CAP hit is pretty reasonable.

Big strong defenseman who can fight, hit, clear the front of the net AND score, don't grow on trees.
No, but between Smyth and Souray we would have 10 mil+ invested in cap space in 2 players for more than a year after this current season.

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08-14-2009, 04:34 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
How many goals did your leading defenseman get?
Your "comeback" doesn't even make sense.

The claim was made that he lead the Oilers in goals, and I said that was because the Oilers' forwards are not that great.

How does that have anything to do with the Kings' defensive scoring?

FYI, if Souray was on the Kings, he would NOT have led the team in goals. Frolov, Kopitar, and Brown would have outscored him.

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08-14-2009, 04:39 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Maybe one of the reasons you guys have trouble scoring goals is because you dont have a player like Souray on your pp and in your lineup.
Really? How many assists did Souray have last season? (30 assists in 81 games.)

Kyle Quincey had 34 assists in 72 games for LA last year.

So it's not like LA didn't have an offensive player on D. I doubt Souray would make much of a difference.

Considering his expensive contract, I'd venture to say that I'd rather have Quincey for the league minimum and similar offensive production.

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08-14-2009, 05:39 AM
  #100
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But we don't have Quincey...

For the record, I'm not advocating trading Frolov for Souray, or necessarily acquiring Souray at all. But IMO, Souray or a player like him, is exactly what our blueline needs.

LA currently has the most offensivley challenged group of defensemen in the league. Souray, who is an elite offensive defensemen, would add that offense and give us toughness/grit/leadership at the same time.



Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post

Points Scored by Each Teams' Top 4 At Even Strength (08-09 Season):
NYI
Suttan 35 (10pts in in 23gp, on pace for 35pts)
Streit 28 (25pts in in 74gp, on pace for 28pts)
Meyer 24 (8pts in in 27gp, on pace for 24pts)
Gervais 18 (15pts in in 69gp, on pace for 18pts)

Total= 105


DET
Rafalski 31
Kronwall 28
Lidstrom 25
Lebda 20 (16pts in 65gp, on pace for 20pts)

Total= 104


FLA
Ballard 28
McCabe 24 (20pts in 69gp, on pace for 24pts)
Boynton 22 (18pts in 68gp, on pace for 22pts)
Bouwmeester 21

Total= 95


BOS
Hunwick 29 (19pts in 53gp, on pace for 29pts)
Wideman 24
Chara 20
Montador 20

Total= 93


CHI
Keith 32
Campbell 28
Seabrook 17
Walker 15 (12pts in 65gp, on pace for 15pts)

Total=92


NSH
Weber 32
Suter 27
Hamuis 18
Klein 14 (11pts in 63gp, on pace for 14pts)

Total= 91


EDM
Souray 29
Gilbert 28
Grebeshkov 26
Visnovsky 23 (14pts in 50gp, on pace for 23pts)

Total= 86


ANA
Niedermayer 23
Wisniewski 22 (13pts in 48gp, on pace for 22pts)
Whitney 21 (12pts in 48gp, on pace for 21pts)
Pronger 19

Total = 85


MTL
Hamerlik 27
Markov 24
Gorges 17
Schneider 16 (13pts in 67gp, on pace for 16pts)

Total= 84


TOR
Finger 26 (21pts in 66gp, on pace for 26pts)
White 20
Kubina 21 (18pts in 71gp, on pace for 21pts)
Kaberle 17 (12pts in 57gp, on pace for 17pts)

Total=84


CAL
Phaneuf 26
Aucoin 21
Leopold 19
Sarich 17

Total= 83


WAS
Green 41 (34pts in 68gp, on pace for 41pts)
Morrison 15 (13pts in 72gp, on pace for 15pts)
Schultz 14 ( 11pts in 64gp, on pace for 14pts)
Jurcina 13

Total=83


CAR
Babchuk 23 (20pts in 72gp, on pace for 23pts)
Pitkanen 22 (19pts in 71gp, on pace for 22pts)
Seidenberg 22 (19pts in 70gp, on pace for 22pts)
Corvo 15

Total=82


PIT
Letang 23 (21pts in 74gp, on pace for 23pts)
Goligoski 22 (12pts in 45gp, on pace for 22pts)
Gonchar 20 (6pts in 25gp, on pace for 20pts)
Orpik 17

Total= 82


SJS
Blake 26 (23pts in 73gp, on pace for 26pts)
Boyle 24
Ehrhoff 17
Vlasic 14

Total= 81


PHO
Michalek 26
Yandle 20 (17pts in 69gp, on pace for 20pts)
Jovo 18
Kalinin 16 (14pts in 73gp, on pace for 16pts)

Total= 80


CLB
Commodore 22
Methot 21 (17pts in 66gp, on pace for 21pts)
Hejda 20
Tyutin 16

Total= 79


ATL
Bogasian 23 (13pts in 47gp, on pace for 23pts)
Hainsey 21
Enstrom 15
Oystrick 15 (10pts in 53gp, on pace for 15pts)

Total= 74


VAN
Mitchell 23
Bieksa 18 (16pts in 72gp, on pace for 18pts)
Elder 16
Ohlund 16

Total= 73


DAL
Niskanen 25
Daley 25 (23pts in 75gp, on pace for 25)
Robidas 18 (16pts in 72gp, on pace for 18)
Sydor 13 (12pts in 73gp, on pace for 13pts)

Total=71


NJD
Oduya 23
White 17 (15pts in 73gp, on pace for 17pts)
Martin 16 (14pts in 71gp, on pace for 16pts)
Salvador 14

Total= 70


TBL
Melacher 19 (9pts in 39gp, on pace for 19pts)
Mezaros 18 (16pts in 71gp, on pace for 18pts)
Krajicek 17 (11pts in 52gp, on pace for 17pts)
Ranger 16 (8pts in 42gp, on pace for 16pts)

Total=70


MIN
Burns 18 (13pts in 59gp, on pace for 18pts)
Zidlicky 17
Johnsson 16
Skoula 15

Total=66


OTT
Campoli 17
Phillips 16
Kuba 16 (14pts in 71gp, on pace for 16pts)
Lee 15 (10pts in 53gp, on pace for 15pts)

Total= 64


NYR
Redden 17
Girardi 15
Rozsival 15 (14pts in 76gp, on pace for 15pts)
Morris 14 (13pts in 75gp, on pace for 14pts)

Total= 61


COL
Liles 20 (18pts in 75gp, on pace for 20pts)
Salei 16 (14pts in 70gp, on pace for 16pts)
Foote 14 (7pts in 42gp, on pace for 14pts)
Hannan 10

Total= 60


PHI
Carle 19 (18pts in 76gp, on pace for 19pts)
Coburn 15
Timmonen 14
Alberts 12

Total=60


STL
Jackman 17
Woywitka 13 (10pts in 65gp, on pace for 13pts)
Colaiacovo 11 (10pts in 73gp, on pace for 11pts)
Wagner 11 (3pts in 22gp, on pace for 11pts)

Total= 52



Points Scored At Even Strength By The Kings' Projected Top 4 (08-09 Point Totals):
LAK
Scuderi 16
Greene 13
Doughty 11
Johnson 10 (5pts in 41gp, on pace for 10pts)

Total= 50


Obviously this stat isn't necessarily indicative of a teams' overall success. But it does, IMO, show that the Kings are seriously lacking in blueline offense. Even if our top 4 increased its 5on5 offensive output by 20%, it would still be one of the worst in the league (At even strength offensive).

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