HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Rangers Eyeing Brad Richards

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-14-2009, 11:17 AM
  #101
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
I agree Dubi or even Anisimov would be fine. then see what they go and go from their at the deadline

Saying Wade Redden is a top 4 Dman is not crazy. I mean come on people , he makes alot of money and the cap hurts the team so people are even harder on the guy

he is not a # 5/6 Dman
Dubinsky, I could live with. Ansimov has proven nothing at this level and could use some 3rd line seasoning first and foremost.

Wade Redden is perilously close to being a 3rd pairing guy if his play continues to dip.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 11:18 AM
  #102
Glen Teflon Sather
Like A Boss
 
Glen Teflon Sather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bloomfield, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,183
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Glen Teflon Sather
Big hell no from me on this one, I will guarantee those who are all for Richards on here will pull a 180 and bash him by the end of the year like with Gomez. Another poster said it best: why would Sather refuse Dubinsky in a Heatley deal then turn around and include him to get Richards who is a waste of money? And I don't wanna hear the Torts angle about how Richards played his best under him, if that's the case go out and get me friggen Lecavalier which will never happen anyway. Just start the season already!

Glen Teflon Sather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 11:18 AM
  #103
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
With all due respect Supersonic - Drury's average point total per year is 60.
He hasn't reached 60 in NY.

Two points shy, not a big deal even worth mentioning. It's just semantics.

So i agree with you there.

However, Richards is still a better player... better then Dubinsky is anyway. And probably better then Dubinsky will ever be.

And this is coming from someone who LOVES Dubinsky. i would have a hard time swallowing the trade.

But Richards is a HELL of a player. And he would be a great partner for Gaborik.

The contract is the only issue.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 11:22 AM
  #104
Anthony Mauro
DB Hockey
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,665
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Did you look at the "Games Played" column?

Richards was injured this year, played 56 games, and still out scored Dubinsky.

The year before that he put up 62 points, 20 goals. Dubinsky put up 40 points that year. That's 22 points more. Not 8.
Please, SM save your time and energy. The guy is not worth it. I have no time for people who try to insult others intelligence.

Anthony Mauro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 11:22 AM
  #105
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,158
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Because, even though hes being paid like a #1 defenseman, and playing like a #4 or even a #5, hes still an NHL defenseman (although I dont know for how much longer if this slide in play continues). We need all the NHL caliber defenseman we can get because we only have 4 on the roster right now. Im not a big fan at all of throwing 3 or even 2 rookies into the fire that is Tort's system, which leaves defensemen hanging out to dry more often than not.
I agree we need him as a top 4 this season given the circumstances but if that buy-out period gets implemented he's out faster than a fat kid in dodgeball...

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 11:25 AM
  #106
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
He hasn't reached 60 in NY.

Two points shy, not a big deal even worth mentioning. It's just semantics.

So i agree with you there.

However, Richards is still a better player... better then Dubinsky is anyway. And probably better then Dubinsky will ever be.

And this is coming from someone who LOVES Dubinsky. i would have a hard time swallowing the trade.

But Richards is a HELL of a player. And he would be a great partner for Gaborik.

The contract is the only issue.
Thats a pretty big issue.

Theres also the issue that Richards is 7 years older...as well as the fact you'd probably be giving up your #2 defenseman as well.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 11:27 AM
  #107
offdacrossbar
with the 10th pick..
 
offdacrossbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: da cuse
Country: Tuvalu
Posts: 8,469
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
He hasn't reached 60 in NY.

Two points shy, not a big deal even worth mentioning. It's just semantics.

So i agree with you there.

However, Richards is still a better player... better then Dubinsky is anyway. And probably better then Dubinsky will ever be.

And this is coming from someone who LOVES Dubinsky. i would have a hard time swallowing the trade.

But Richards is a HELL of a player. And he would be a great partner for Gaborik.

The contract is the only issue.
correct.

on all accounts.

dubinsky is being way overvalued here. i have no problem having dubi on this team long term but hes not a #1 center now nor will he be any time soon.

problem is, gaborik needs to play with someone this season who can do the following:

distribute the puck at top speed.

create time and space for gaborik to operate

not sure dubinsky is capable of that facing top pairs and checking lines every night.

we need an impact pivot this season. dubi aint that guy. if things stay this way, we will struggle until we get one and that may be next summer.

marc savard will be that guy next season.

offdacrossbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 11:27 AM
  #108
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
I agree we need him as a top 4 this season given the circumstances but if that buy-out period gets implemented he's out faster than a fat kid in dodgeball...
I sure as hell hope so. I cringe when thinking about what Redden will look like at 35, 36, 37 years old.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 11:28 AM
  #109
Chimp
Registered User
 
Chimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: In my food garden.
Country: Sweden
Posts: 10,490
vCash: 500
There are 7.8 million reasons why Richards shouldn't be a player for this team. Just hell no, we've had enough of hugely overpaid borderline 1st line centers for the next decades now.

Chimp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 11:29 AM
  #110
Anthony Mauro
DB Hockey
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,665
vCash: 500
There is one fact in this thread that cannot be ignored:

Brad Richards is the player we hope Brandon Dubinsky will become.

There is one opinion that dominates this thread:

Brandon Dubinsky will be just as good or even better (with his intangibles ) than Brad Richards.

There is one item of interest that no one takes into account:

By the time the latter happens (Dubinsky proves to be on the level of Richards) he will (a) have aged and will no longer be the appealing, strapping 23 year old he is now, and (b) worked his way up to a salary close to Richards'. Because after all, he is worth the 2 million or so right now he's rumored to be demanding.

So, my question is this. Does it really matter if we speed things up a bit and get the 29 year old, proven set up man rather than wait the 5 years to see if our own can get there?

To me it doesn't. Those who say different are IMO stroking their need for all players young. Younger = Better. Pro sports doesn't necessarily work like that.

Anthony Mauro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 11:32 AM
  #111
Chimp
Registered User
 
Chimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: In my food garden.
Country: Sweden
Posts: 10,490
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
There is one fact in this thread that cannot be ignored:

Brad Richards is the player we hope Brandon Dubinsky will become.

There is one opinion that dominates this thread:

Brandon Dubinsky will be just as good or even better (with his intangibles ) than Brad Richards.

There is one item of interest that no one takes into account:

By the time the latter happens (Dubinsky proves to be on the level of Richards) he will (a) have aged and will no longer be the appealing, strapping 23 year old he is now, and (b) worked his way up to a salary close to Richards'. Because after all, he is worth the 2 million or so right now he's rumored to be demanding.

So, my question is this. Does it really matter if we speed things up a bit and get the 29 year old, proven set up man rather than wait the 5 years to see if our own can get there?

To me it doesn't. Those who say different are IMO stroking their need for all players young. Younger = Better. Pro sports doesn't necessarily work like that.
Question: would you keep an upgraded Brandon Dubinsky for $7.8 million a season? I sure as hell wouldn't. This is a salary cap world.

Chimp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 11:34 AM
  #112
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
There is one fact in this thread that cannot be ignored:

Brad Richards is the player we hope Brandon Dubinsky will become.

There is one opinion that dominates this thread:

Brandon Dubinsky will be just as good or even better (with his intangibles ) than Brad Richards.


There is one item of interest that no one takes into account:

By the time the latter happens (Dubinsky proves to be on the level of Richards) he will (a) have aged and will no longer be the appealing, strapping 23 year old he is now, and (b) worked his way up to a salary close to Richards'. Because after all, he is worth the 2 million or so right now he's rumored to be demanding.

So, my question is this. Does it really matter if we speed things up a bit and get the 28 year old, proven set up man rather than wait the 4 years to see if our own can get there?

To me it doesn't. Those who say different are IMO stroking their need for all players young. Younger = Better. Pro sports doesn't necessarily work like that.
Dominates the thread? Its been said that Dubinsky and Richards are on an even plain maybe once or twice, and that opinion is misguided. Richards is certainly the better player at this point.

Most are against a Richards deal because they realize how stupid it is to give up assets AND have almost 30 million tied up in 4 players for at least the next 3 years.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 11:36 AM
  #113
CPZ
 
CPZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 135
vCash: 500
Do It !!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Thats a pretty big issue.

Theres also the issue that Richards is 7 years older...as well as the fact you'd probably be giving up your #2 defenseman as well.
DO IT!!! The Rangers by miracle rid themselves of a soft non scoring 6 million dollars softy and can now F it up again. If Sather does this it will help out the division big time DO IT!!!!!!!!

CPZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 11:38 AM
  #114
Anthony Mauro
DB Hockey
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,665
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
Question: would you keep an upgraded Brandon Dubinsky for $7.8 million a season? I sure as hell wouldn't. This is a salary cap world.
You mean one that on the average will score 25-40 more points than him? Sure, why not.

As a fan, take a step back and look at these two questions.

(1) Do you pay the player?

(2) Do you have to manage the cap?

Unless you're quite an unproductive owner/GM and are posting on HFBoards instead of working, then the answers are going to be no.

Really, what does it matter if the guy is a little overpaid in comparison to what is, actually, no comparison. Who cares?! I'm not losing any sleep even though Donald Brashear is making about a half a million more than he "theoretically" should. According to all these armchairs. But you know what, good for him. I'm trying hard as hell to figure out a work week myself that allows me to even reach 50,000.


Last edited by Anthony Mauro: 08-14-2009 at 11:44 AM.
Anthony Mauro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 11:40 AM
  #115
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
There is one fact in this thread that cannot be ignored:

Brad Richards is the player we hope Brandon Dubinsky will become.

There is one opinion that dominates this thread:

Brandon Dubinsky will be just as good or even better (with his intangibles ) than Brad Richards.

There is one item of interest that no one takes into account:

By the time the latter happens (Dubinsky proves to be on the level of Richards) he will (a) have aged and will no longer be the appealing, strapping 23 year old he is now, and (b) worked his way up to a salary close to Richards'. Because after all, he is worth the 2 million or so right now he's rumored to be demanding.

So, my question is this. Does it really matter if we speed things up a bit and get the 28 year old, proven set up man rather than wait the 4 years to see if our own can get there?

To me it doesn't. Those who say different are IMO stroking their need for all players young. Younger = Better. Pro sports doesn't necessarily work like that.
It's a compelling argument.

Dubinsky is 23. He could potential turn into that player THIS year.

It's a gamble you take either way.

It's a gamble to deal him, and then see him break out this year and put up 60+ points, 20 goals. At 2 mil. At 23 years old. While we pay 7+ mil for a 29 year old Richards to do the same thing.

IMO, Dubinsky is not that far off from Richards. The potential is there.

He needs that extra mysterious thing that will elevate him to that next level.

The question is will he ever do it.

I think he can.

But right now Richards is way ahead of him. Richards has reached 90 points. He has reached 70+ multiple times. He has reached 60+ multiple times.

This year was the ONLY year Richards didn't score AT LEAST 62 points in a season... and he missed 26 games this year.

Dubinsky has barely reached 40 points the last two years. And has yet to score 20 goals.

OH YES... i forgot to add



That's a pretty good trophy to win... just throwing that out there.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 11:41 AM
  #116
Anthony Mauro
DB Hockey
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,665
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Dominates the thread? Its been said that Dubinsky and Richards are on an even plain maybe once or twice, and that opinion is misguided. Richards is certainly the better player at this point.

Most are against a Richards deal because they realize how stupid it is to give up assets AND have almost 30 million tied up in 4 players for at least the next 3 years.
Well then, I guess good for you if you think having Chris Drury, Brandon Dubinsky, Artem Anisimov, and Brian Boyle down the middle is less stupid than that!

Anthony Mauro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 11:47 AM
  #117
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
Well then, I guess good for you if you think having Chris Drury, Brandon Dubinsky, Artem Anisimov, and Brian Boyle down the middle is less stupid than that!
Its on par if not better than having Richards, Drury, Anisimov, Boyle, and 3 rookie defensemen...as well as Richards' toxic contract on the books.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 11:51 AM
  #118
Mr Bojanglez
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Mr Bojanglez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: From Jersey w/ Love
Country: United States
Posts: 10,922
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrfan444 View Post
First, let me say that I actually really like Brad Richards as a player.

Secondly, let me say that trading Dubi ++ for him would be one of the most bone-headed moves this franchise has made in quite some time - which is really saying something. I could be convinced if Heatley, who requires an elite playmaker to set up his shot, was the goal scorer we acquired. But Marian Gaborik DOES NOT need an elite playmaker to put up points. He needs players who can keep up with him - see Wes Walz - and I think Dubi could fill that role perfectly. Give the kid a shot before moving significant assets to get another 7+ million dollar player.
I think you nailed it. Richards is def. a better player, but you don't need him to make Gaborik work. Heatley has done it, in the past, without a great center (in ATL) but Gaborik has done it his whole life.

Plus, Dubinsky did well with Jagr. If Dubie creates some space for Gabby, then that line could work well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post

edit: why would other teams want a RFA that isn't signed? I think they'd rather Sather sign Dubinsky before he was traded if he's actually up on the block. In which case, Sather would be better off by signing Dubinsky sooner rather than later.

That way, they know what they're getting in terms of contracts, etc.
But if they have his RFA rights, they can sign him to whatever contract they prefer (i.e. differences in contract length, cap hit, etc.).

I could see this as being just as, if not more valuable, than having him signed already

Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Not that I agree with this assessment, but I have a feeling that they may be looking at Ribiero as their #1 center as he has posted #1 center numbers the last 2 years
Ribiero, points-wise, is just about as good as Richards IMO. Plus they still have Modano... who could be considered borderline 2nd line center, depending on the team. Also they have Brenden Morrow, and the emergence of Eriksson, Neal, and to a lesser degree Brunstrom. They still have forward talent/depth.

Richards provides a good 2-way game, but they have that with Jere Lehtinen.

Bottomline, doesn't make too much sense for Dallas... or even NYR


Last edited by Mr Bojanglez: 08-14-2009 at 11:58 AM.
Mr Bojanglez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 11:52 AM
  #119
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Its on par if not better than having Richards, Drury, Anisimov, Boyle, and 3 rookie defensemen...as well as Richards' toxic contract on the books.
We won't have three rookies in the lineup either way.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 11:56 AM
  #120
Vitto79
Registered User
 
Vitto79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sarnia
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,672
vCash: 500
If that was a NYR jersey then we would all be fine with Dubinsky for Richards

OH YES... i forgot to add



That's a pretty good trophy to win... just throwing that out there.[/QUOTE]

Vitto79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 11:57 AM
  #121
Melrose_Jr.
Registered User
 
Melrose_Jr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Providence, RI
Country: United States
Posts: 10,692
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
There is one opinion that dominates this thread:

Brandon Dubinsky will be just as good or even better (with his intangibles ) than Brad Richards.
Dominates the thread?!?!?! Seriously, no one here is making that assessment.

The only dominating opinion is that the Rangers can't afford to assume another contract of this size, period.

Melrose_Jr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 11:59 AM
  #122
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,780
vCash: 500
Well, guess the cats outta the bag now....

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 12:01 PM
  #123
Barbara Underhill
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuke
 
Barbara Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montana
Country: United States
Posts: 13,201
vCash: 500
Dubinsky won't put up 60 pts this season and he isn't the 2nd coming of Rob Brindamour as some people like to say. Just my opinion. He is over valued.
Posted via Mobile Device

Barbara Underhill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 12:01 PM
  #124
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
We won't have three rookies in the lineup either way.
Well then some signings would have to take place because if Roszival/Dubinsky go for Richards (the same type of package that Sather wouldnt part with for Dany Heatley, mind you), that leaves you with Staal, Girardi, and Redden as the only 3 NHL defensemen.

Signings are made a bit more precarious when you have the following payouts:

Richards: 7.8 million
Gaborik: 7.5 million
Drury: 7 million
Lundqvist: 6.8 million
Redden 6.5 million

Thats 5 players taking up almost 2/3rds of the cap. We are in a precarious position as it is. Brad Richards officially puts us back into cap hell and weakens the defense. No thanks.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-14-2009, 12:03 PM
  #125
HockeyBurd*
 
HockeyBurd*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Why do we need him? The only reason we didn't find a replacement for him is because no one will take on his contract.... Contribution wise, he could be easily replaced... Call me crazy without having seen him play but I have a strong hunch that Gilroy will outplay Redden the latter part of this season....
So Marc Staal with almost two seasons under his belt and Girardi with 2 seasons and two post seasons under his belt, couldn't handle top pair minutes down the stretch or in the playoffs. And the Rangers basically had to be saved by Redden and Rozy. But Gilroy, who would have almost no chance of making this team if it wasn't for his salary, is going to outplay a vet D-man who has been logging big minutes for the past decade.

Redden had a pretty crappy season at times. Most other times he was just average. But down the stretch, it was proven quite definitively that if Redden and Rozy are replaced by anything other than legit top pair guys, this team will not make the playoffs at all.

Gilroy replaces Redden? Only on HFBoards.

HockeyBurd* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:35 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.