You're right, DL's job is "kind of" on the line. If they miss the playoffs in 2010, I would still keep DL for the 10-11 season, so his "completed 5-yr plan" can really take effect. I don't know if I'm serious or not.
All I know is that I EXPECT this team to make the playoffs in 2010. But I've been optimistic before and ....nothing...
It's probably a big mistake to count on Smyth that much...? Kopitar has to step it up this season.
For some reason, I'm not that high on Smyth... Feels like he is just another piece to help Kings to get to next level...
The up side for Kopi is so much higher than it was for Cammi. Kopi, at 6'4 220lbs is going to be an eliete player in this league when everything is said and done. Cammi is a 2nd line winger. Cammi is not worth the 5 million he got and in time Kopi will be a bargin at his price tag.
You guys get obsessed about size too much. Gretzky was one of the best players this game has ever seen and he was barely 6' tall and 180 lbs. Size does not equate to skill or paycheck size. If it did Boyle would still be a Kings player and making $8 million/year.
The up side for Kopi is so much higher than it was for Cammi. Kopi, at 6'4 220lbs is going to be an eliete player in this league when everything is said and done. Cammi is a 2nd line winger. Cammi is not worth the 5 million he got and in time Kopi will be a bargin at his price tag.
For a guy with that size, I hope he plays that big. I'm not saying he should go out there and knock down everybody but at least don't get knock off easily... I wish he has a little bit of Deader in him..
"It's time we start pushing the envelope with our young players. I think Kopi's getting it. I saw him this summer and he looks 10 times better than last September."
"It's time we start pushing the envelope with our young players. I think Kopi's getting it. I saw him this summer and he looks 10 times better than last September."
And it's not even September yet. By September we could be at eleven or twelve times
"It's time we start pushing the envelope with our young players. I think Kopi's getting it. I saw him this summer and he looks 10 times better than last September."
Good, then I expect 270 goals and 660 points from him this year.
I did not say Dean had no right to criticize Kopitar. But if you publicly say he has been getting his ice time cut because of a lack of commitment then it somewhat contradicts the new contract he just signed. That would be like my boss giving me a huge raise while telling me my production is so bad that he needs to cut back my overtime.
Dean's said repeatedly he's not a fan of what this CBA requires in terms of having to make premature commitments to young players before they prove their worth. People have to conform to the "rules" of their environment all the time. It doesn't mean they have to like it.
Kopitar's development is no different from any other players at his age. It just has a spotlight on it because of the amount of money he's making and the expectations that go along with that. He HAS to be the example for every other player on the team. If he's out of shape and getting paid that much, then everyone else will think that's OK. DL has to send a strong message that it's not, and that message gets complicated because of the business environment that DL has to operate within.
I have no doubt that's why DL put the screws to Doughty to get himself in top shape before he even joined the Kings, because when Doughty signs that huge contract at 21 or 22, he doesn't want this fitness issue to come up again since Doughty could easily become the highest paid player on the team and therefore the new example for every young player to strive for.
- T
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"In a year that has been so improbable, the impossible has happened." - Vin Scully being clairvoyant in 1988.
The Los Angeles Kings - 2012 Stanley Cup Champions
Dean's said repeatedly he's not a fan of what this CBA requires in terms of having to make premature commitments to young players before they prove their worth. People have to conform to the "rules" of their environment all the time. It doesn't mean they have to like it.
Kopitar's development is no different from any other players at his age. It just has a spotlight on it because of the amount of money he's making and the expectations that go along with that. He HAS to be the example for every other player on the team. If he's out of shape and getting paid that much, then everyone else will think that's OK. DL has to send a strong message that it's not, and that message gets complicated because of the business environment that DL has to operate within.
I have no doubt that's why DL put the screws to Doughty to get himself in top shape before he even joined the Kings, because when Doughty signs that huge contract at 21 or 22, he doesn't want this fitness issue to come up again since Doughty could easily become the highest paid player on the team and therefore the new example for every young player to strive for.
- T
I agree that Dean is trying to hold these guys accountable. But with guys like Cammi and O'Sullivan he wanted results before they got their rewards. With Kopitar it has gone the other way. So either Dean has changed his strategy or Kopitar is an anomaly. I guess we will find out the answer to this question when players like Frolov, Doughty and Bernier get their next deals.
I am not really sure what you are saying or meaning here. All the things that Lombardi is saying is that Kopitar doesn't "get it". Cutting ice time anually, not being in shape, learning D in year three, out of gas at the end of the season probably isn't Lombardi's model of a young leader destined for Stanley Cup success. It doesn't really eek getting anywhere to be frank.
Perhaps I didn't understand you?
I hope he has the drive to get to that zone, and I think this is Lombardi's concern, hence the repeating of mentioneing Kopitar all the time.
Bad choice of words on my part I think. Rather I should have said Lombardi is confident he will get "it", and it's only a matter of time. He did say "I think Kopi's getting it. I saw him this summer and he looks 10 times better than last September." That's encouraging to hear.
Some players have that discipline and know what it takes to succeed, but a lot don't. Anze understands it being a coaches son, he just hasn't put it together.
The fact is that last year we had no good finishers in the lineup (Sully was supposed to do that but eh...) except for Frolov, who had to go away from his game to fill a team need.
No we have Williams, who is a solid finisher, but more importantly, Smyth, who is a very good finisher. Remember all those chances Calder/Kopitar failed on? Smyth scores on those.
Of course, the season begins and ends with Kopitar. He has to live up to his contract if we have any real shot of making the playoffs. He has to accept that he has the offensive game and size of a powerforward, and all he has to do is be willing to get his nose dirty and play with the talent we know he has.
It's undeniable that the Kings will be a much better team. What looks better?
I agree that Dean is trying to hold these guys accountable. But with guys like Cammi and O'Sullivan he wanted results before they got their rewards. With Kopitar it has gone the other way. So either Dean has changed his strategy or Kopitar is an anomaly. I guess we will find out the answer to this question when players like Frolov, Doughty and Bernier get their next deals.
I think he got results from both Cammi and Kopitar. He just decided to sign one and not the other.
Also, I'm sure the strategy is somewhat dependent on the quality of the player. Dean probably felt (right or wrong) that, because of market value, Cammi was going to be over-paid. He didn't want to be the one to over-pay, so he decided to get something (not enough?) back for him, instead of letting him go to free agency.
I agree that Dean is trying to hold these guys accountable. But with guys like Cammi and O'Sullivan he wanted results before they got their rewards. With Kopitar it has gone the other way. So either Dean has changed his strategy or Kopitar is an anomaly. I guess we will find out the answer to this question when players like Frolov, Doughty and Bernier get their next deals.
or he does as any good manager should do and looks at each situation individually. that's not that hard to comprehend.
I think he got results from both Cammi and Kopitar. He just decided to sign one and not the other.
Also, I'm sure the strategy is somewhat dependent on the quality of the player. Dean probably felt (right or wrong) that, because of market value, Cammi was going to be over-paid. He didn't want to be the one to over-pay, so he decided to get something (not enough?) back for him, instead of letting him go to free agency.
Actually he did not. Dean has on numerous occasions brought up the fact that none of the Kings players have led the team to the playoffs. That fact still remains and is one of Dean's biggest issues when talking about results.
Actually he did not. Dean has on numerous occasions brought up the fact that none of the Kings players have led the team to the playoffs. That fact still remains and is one of Dean's biggest issues when talking about results.
Ok I guess we need to clarify exactly what "results" means.
If helping the Kings make the playoffs is a prerequisite for DL signing a player, then how do we have anyone under contract?
Do you think he should not have signed Kopi to this deal?
The fact is that last year we had no good finishers in the lineup (Sully was supposed to do that but eh...) except for Frolov, who had to go away from his game to fill a team need.
No we have Williams, who is a solid finisher, but more importantly, Smyth, who is a very good finisher. Remember all those chances Calder/Kopitar failed on? Smyth scores on those.
Who can we hold liable when Smyth shoots wide or fans on the shot? DL? Symth? ...you? What are you offering?
I've seen too many "sure things" for this team to know there's no such thing.
or he does as any good manager should do and looks at each situation individually. that's not that hard to comprehend.
But....the evidence does not support that. Kopitar has not produced significantly more than Cammi or Frolov in his time with the Kings. Yet some people believe he is worth so much more because he is A) a center and/or B) a large player. The problem with that is at the end of the season the team that wins might be celebrating because a LW stepped up his game or because a 5'8 guy was lights out.
Ok I guess we need to clarify exactly what "results" means.
If helping the Kings make the playoffs is a prerequisite for DL signing a player, then how do we have anyone under contract?
Do you think he should not have signed Kopi to this deal?
To $6.8 million a year? No.....And I am 99.9% sure that Kopitar would have signed for significantly less than that, if not then Cammi was the wrong guy to label as greedy. I have no idea why Dean agreed to that amount. If Kopitar had an NHL trophy or a couple of all star appearances to support being worth that much then I could see it. But the fact is there are at least 20 or 30 players in the league right now that are more productive than Kopitar while making less money.
But....the evidence does not support that. Kopitar has not produced significantly more than Cammi or Frolov in his time with the Kings. Yet some people believe he is worth so much more because he is A) a center and/or B) a large player. The problem with that is at the end of the season the team that wins might be celebrating because a LW stepped up his game or because a 5'8 guy was lights out.
Kopitar produced MUCH more than either Frolov or Cammi did at the ages of 18-21. You keep forgetting to take into account how good Kopitar was when he was still essentially a child.
To $6.8 million a year? No.....And I am 99.9% sure that Kopitar would have signed for significantly less than that, if not then Cammi was the wrong guy to label as greedy. I have no idea why Dean agreed to that amount. If Kopitar had an NHL trophy or a couple of all star appearances to support being worth that much then I could see it. But the fact is there are at least 20 or 30 players in the league right now that are more productive than Kopitar while making less money.
Something like this will almost always be true. When a player has a breakout year has everything to do with whether he can compare his production vs. cost to that of other players. Kopitar started his career with huge seasons. Getzlaf didn't really break out big until he signed a new contract. Same with Parise. You can't compare it without taking into account the respective situations under which players signed their contracts. The situation Kopitar signed his under was one that had him looking to be a top 10 center in the NHL in a few years, so that's how he got paid.
Kopitar produced MUCH more than either Frolov or Cammi did at the ages of 18-21. You keep forgetting to take into account how good Kopitar was when he was still essentially a child.
I will agree with that. But there is also a very real possibility that Koptar will never be any better than he is right now. Would the contract that Dean gave him be justified if he never becomes more than a 30 goal/70 point player?
But....the evidence does not support that. Kopitar has not produced significantly more than Cammi or Frolov in his time with the Kings. Yet some people believe he is worth so much more because he is A) a center and/or B) a large player. The problem with that is at the end of the season the team that wins might be celebrating because a LW stepped up his game or because a 5'8 guy was lights out.
I would argue that Kopitar has produced more (points, not playoff appearances) than either Cammi or Fro. He was an every game NHL player at 19. Cammi didn't start to put up big numbers until he was 23. Fro at 24. Granted the lock-out stunted their growth a little bit, but at 19 Frolov was still in Russia while Cammi was still in college.
I will agree with that. But there is also a very real possibility that Koptar will never be any better than he is right now. Would the contract that Dean gave him be justified if he never becomes more than a 30 goal/70 point player?
That depends. If he also becomes a great 2way center and a locker room leader and a clutch player, then I'd say yes. If he is a 30g/40a guy forever and he sucks on defense and isn't a leader then no he isn't worth it. But I have to wonder, how many pieces of corn are obstructing your view through those **** colored glasses?
You are very stubborn about accepting the idea that DL will pay anyone on good faith. Why is it wrong for him to believe in Kopitar and his future more than O'Sullivan or Cammy? Its not all about numbers. If DL has shown us anything about his character it is that offensive numbers is NOT on the top of his list.
For some reason, I'm not that high on Smyth... Feels like he is just another piece to help Kings to get to next level...
