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Kings' GM likes direction his team is headed - nhl.com's 30 in 30

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Old
08-14-2009, 03:42 PM
  #51
Captain Ron
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Something like this will almost always be true. When a player has a breakout year has everything to do with whether he can compare his production vs. cost to that of other players. Kopitar started his career with huge seasons. Getzlaf didn't really break out big until he signed a new contract. Same with Parise. You can't compare it without taking into account the respective situations under which players signed their contracts. The situation Kopitar signed his under was one that had him looking to be a top 10 center in the NHL in a few years, so that's how he got paid.
I understand the position you are taking but even you would have to admit that the numbers that Kopitar put up in his 1st two seasons was not at all indicative of what a $7 million/year player is expected to produce. When he is putting up 40+ goals and 90+ points per season then yes. But as of now those are very optimistic numbers.

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08-14-2009, 03:44 PM
  #52
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That depends. If he also becomes a great 2way center and a locker room leader and a clutch player, then I'd say yes. If he is a 30g/40a guy forever and he sucks on defense and isn't a leader then no he isn't worth it. But I have to wonder, how many pieces of corn are obstructing your view through those **** colored glasses?

You are very stubborn about accepting the idea that DL will pay anyone on good faith. Why is it wrong for him to believe in Kopitar and his future more than O'Sullivan or Cammy? Its not all about numbers. If DL has shown us anything about his character it is that offensive numbers is NOT on the top of his list.
Well what Kopitar has shown as of yet has not prevented the Kings from being a bottom feeding team. So, I guess in that respect you are correct. But that might also indicate that what Dean is willing to pay for might not be what it takes to win.

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08-14-2009, 03:44 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
I understand the position you are taking but even you would have to admit that the numbers that Kopitar put up in his 1st two seasons was not at all indicative of what a $7 million/year player is expected to produce. When he is putting up 40+ goals and 90+ points per season then yes. But as of now those are very optimistic numbers.
I think my post above this is sufficient as a response to this as well.

Didn't you learn anything from George Michael?

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08-14-2009, 03:45 PM
  #54
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I think my post above this is sufficient as a response to this as well.

Didn't you learn anything from George Michael?
Yes....stay away from strange men in public bathrooms.

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08-14-2009, 03:48 PM
  #55
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Well what Kopitar has shown as of yet has not prevented the Kings from being a bottom feeding team. So, I guess in that respect you are correct. But that might also indicate that what Dean is willing to pay for might not be what it takes to win.
Players he believe will become true stars?

I've always believed it since Kopitar first took the ice for the Kings. I thought "There is our future. I'm looking at the future now. This guy will be a star in this league."

So maybe that's why I'm fine with the contract. Kopitar's 2nd year only proved my thought further, and I'm not going to throw his potential under the bus because he struggled offensively last season while I could see his defensive game improving in the process.

You can look like an idiot if you make a mistake like Kopitar's contract, but you can also never look like a genius unless you have the faith to take a risk. I think Kopitar is a fairly calculated risk. There is some risk that he won't be a 40g/50a player. However I think the odds are weighted in our favor that Kopitar continues to improves.

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08-14-2009, 03:48 PM
  #56
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Hey JDM....I haven't had a good hockey debate in quite some time. I thank you for the opportunity to refresh my skills.

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08-14-2009, 03:49 PM
  #57
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Yes....stay away from strange men in public bathrooms.
HAHA! How about just stay away from ALL men in public bathrooms.

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08-14-2009, 03:51 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Players he believe will become true stars?

I've always believed it since Kopitar first took the ice for the Kings. I thought "There is our future. I'm looking at the future now. This guy will be a star in this league."

So maybe that's why I'm fine with the contract. Kopitar's 2nd year only proved my thought further, and I'm not going to throw his potential under the bus because he struggled offensively last season while I could see his defensive game improving in the process.

You can look like an idiot if you make a mistake like Kopitar's contract, but you can also never look like a genius unless you have the faith to take a risk. I think Kopitar is a fairly calculated risk. There is some risk that he won't be a 40g/50a player. However I think the odds are weighted in our favor that Kopitar continues to improves.
I do not disagree with what you are saying but that last paragraph could also pertain to Cammalleri. Dean might regret not making a legitimate offer to retain Cammi. It is all about taking or not taking risks. The problem is that Dean might have paid the wrong guy in this scenario. I guess time will tell.

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08-14-2009, 03:52 PM
  #59
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Seriously it has been a while. A long summer that starts in April will do that to a guy... I think we are all a little rusty. It's a little strange talking hockey again... where are all the youtube videos? Or the women? (well, atleast we sorted out one of these issues). I can't wait for a new issue to talk about though. We've been down Kopitar alley a few times before. Hopefully by December this won't be a debatable issue anymore!

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08-14-2009, 03:52 PM
  #60
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HAHA! How about just stay away from ALL men in public bathrooms.
Even better.

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08-14-2009, 04:00 PM
  #61
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I have to say, I still think that the Kopitar contract, for whatever reason, was a bad idea (in hindsight)

Though it was an unfortunate product of an age where players got way, way overpayed (especially centers for some reason)

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08-14-2009, 04:02 PM
  #62
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Seriously it has been a while. A long summer that starts in April will do that to a guy... I think we are all a little rusty. It's a little strange talking hockey again... where are all the youtube videos? Or the women? (well, atleast we sorted out one of these issues). I can't wait for a new issue to talk about though. We've been down Kopitar alley a few times before. Hopefully by December this won't be a debatable issue anymore!
Agreed.

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08-14-2009, 04:07 PM
  #63
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And I am 99.9% sure that Kopitar would have signed for significantly less than that.
Where's your evidence to support THAT? Dude, we rarely agree, I do respect and even value your well thought opinions, I even like your sense of humor when you're aiming to be funny, but this statement is a little more on the ridiculous side of things.

Comparing Anze and Cammalleri is truly a waste of time. Two completely different people, two completely different styles and roles, two completely different personalities... from opposite ends of the globe and completely different hockey cultures that were at different ages when they played together, level of experience and at different stages in their contract situations.

You were not even a fly on the wall in Solomon's office, much less invited in, so you can't tell anyone on these boards what AK was willing to accept, it's just supposition.

I think it's safe to say, the Kings were never going to put the "A" or the "C" on #13's jersey for a significant period of time. I have noe evidence to support that, but at least this supposition is easier to make based on the what ended up happeneing to Cammalleri. And I seem to remember him playing hardball with the Kings even before leaving Michigan (threatening to go to juniors to play and go back into the draft a year or two later.)

Your best player should be your highest paid player and he should also be the hardest working player on the team and the guy who kicks everyone in the ass to be better. Just ask Wayne, Earvin, Michael, Kobe, etc...

Dean is very delibrate about what he does and I've yet to see him do ANYTHING as a "stunt" of any kind. Unless you consider him sending players messages a "stunt", which would be another thing we'd disagree on.

All DL is saying is, we've paid you whether we really wanted to or not and now it's time for you to do more of the things you can control to show us we made the right investment in the person we thought you were going to be all along. We've sent a message to the other young core players that if you follow the example, you'll be rewarded as well, even if you're not at Anze's level of skill. Be in shape, show toughness and grit, fight for ice time with other good players, the Kings will thrive and you'll be rewarded as well, like Anze was. That's a message, not a stunt.

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08-14-2009, 04:08 PM
  #64
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Seriously it has been a while. A long summer that starts in April will do that to a guy... I think we are all a little rusty. It's a little strange talking hockey again...
That reminds me.. I need to congratulate Ryan Smyth when I see him. He did the impossible - he killed the off-season rant thread. No one has complained about much of anything for almost 6 weeks now.

That, coupled with DL taking care of all of the off-season issues so early on (JJ signed, Smyth, Scuderi, etc.), everyone's content enough to wait and see what happens this fall, which hasn't happened in years - probably since the advent of the internet.

- T

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08-14-2009, 04:18 PM
  #65
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Where's your evidence to support THAT? Dude, we rarely agree, I do respect and even value your well thought opinions, I even like your sense of humor when you're aiming to be funny, but this statement is a little more on the ridiculous side of things.
I do not remember where I read it....or if it was even proven to be factual. But I recall reading that Dean only made like 2 offers to Kopitar's agent. Which indicates to me that he wasn't trying to get Kopitar at a discount like he was many of the other players. And honestly if you think that Kopitar believed that as a 21 year old player who has never broke the top 20 in scoring, been a finalist for any NHL award, or even been on a playoff caliber team....do you really believe he thinks he is worth more than $6 million/year? If that is the case Kopitar has a much bigger ego than any player that has ever donned a Kings jersey.

Also I am thankful for the few compliments you gave me in your post....so I do not sound like a complete ass.

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08-14-2009, 04:45 PM
  #66
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Bad choice of words on my part I think. Rather I should have said Lombardi is confident he will get "it", and it's only a matter of time. He did say "I think Kopi's getting it. I saw him this summer and he looks 10 times better than last September." That's encouraging to hear.

Some players have that discipline and know what it takes to succeed, but a lot don't. Anze understands it being a coaches son, he just hasn't put it together.
More clear now, thanks. Agree with you about the comments from Lombardi regarding the "10 times better"- stuff. Lets hope it materializes.

Not knowing the character of Kopitar or the ability of Lombardi to have a feel what kind a character or drive a young person might possess, I hope you, a bunch of other fans and ultimately Lombardi are right.
Personally I don't have one clue, but can only hope or wish for the best, like everyone else. Though I can honestly say I wouldn't be surprised one bit if his development goes either way. Worth mentioning over and over again, it would be extremely satisfying to have a legit winning star 1C entering prime time years.

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08-14-2009, 04:48 PM
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I do not remember where I read it....or if it was even proven to be factual.
I remember reading it. It was in an interview with Kopitar. Maybe one that was translated.

It mentioned that Kopitar was offered 2 contracts and he took the longer of the two. IIRC the other contract was 4 or 5 years


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08-14-2009, 04:51 PM
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That reminds me.. I need to congratulate Ryan Smyth when I see him. He did the impossible - he killed the off-season rant thread. No one has complained about much of anything for almost 6 weeks now.

That, coupled with DL taking care of all of the off-season issues so early on (JJ signed, Smyth, Scuderi, etc.), everyone's content enough to wait and see what happens this fall, which hasn't happened in years - probably since the advent of the internet.

- T
If he resigns Fro this summer his A goes up to an A+++.

Its finally almost at the point where we don't have to wonder what Lombardi's next move will be. Like you said, the name of the game now is sit back and watch it unfold.

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08-14-2009, 04:52 PM
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I do not disagree with what you are saying but that last paragraph could also pertain to Cammalleri. Dean might regret not making a legitimate offer to retain Cammi. It is all about taking or not taking risks. The problem is that Dean might have paid the wrong guy in this scenario. I guess time will tell.
So you would have kept Cammalleri over Kopitar?

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08-14-2009, 04:53 PM
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I remember reading it. It wasn't an interview with Kopitar. Maybe one that was translated.

It mentioned that Kopitar was offered 2 contracts and he took the longer of the two. IIRC the other contract was 4 or 5 years
Yup. It was the Slovenian interview posted on LGK. I remember it too.

Dean clearly didn't want to undercut Kopitar, but I feel this is because he knew at one point or another Kopitar was going to be the highest paid King. I think Dean just preferred to have that happen now and lock him up for as long as possible, instead of trying to get a cheaper deal for 2-4 years and have to go through this again sooner than later, when Kopitar will likely be worth every penny.

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08-14-2009, 04:54 PM
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It just dawned on me that Kopi won't be entering his prime (age wise) until AFTER this current contract.

EXTENSION!

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08-14-2009, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
I remember reading it. It was in an interview with Kopitar. Maybe one that was translated.

It mentioned that Kopitar was offered 2 contracts and he took the longer of the two. IIRC the other contract was 4 or 5 years
He got offered a 6 year and a 7 year contract. Shorter contracts were never discussed.

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08-14-2009, 05:23 PM
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I have to say, I still think that the Kopitar contract, for whatever reason, was a bad idea (in hindsight)

Though it was an unfortunate product of an age where players got way, way overpayed (especially centers for some reason)
Now tell me what contract did Kopitar deserve after potting a 20 and a 30 goal season at the age of 19-20?
Look what some other players got in that offseason...

And you know what was bad? Third liners like Calder, Handzus, Stoll making combined over 10mio $$$.

And despite having an offseason he still managed to leed the team in scoring.

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08-14-2009, 05:47 PM
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Now tell me what contract did Kopitar deserve after potting a 20 and a 30 goal season at the age of 19-20?
Look what some other players got in that offseason...

And you know what was bad? Third liners like Calder, Handzus, Stoll making combined over 10mio $$$.

And despite having an offseason he still managed to leed the team in scoring.
Not almost 7 million dollars.

I could be proven wrong if Kopitar has a very good season next year, but it's hard to justify that contract when Kopitar bombs last season.

But I do sincerely believe that Kopitar will do much better next year.

But yeah you are right, at the time, it was pretty good relative to other singings - Staal, Statsny, Briere, all were seen as ok contract during that era.

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08-14-2009, 07:07 PM
  #75
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Kane and Toews will be paid very similar money, if not more, than Kopitar's big extension. They've put up similar numbers. An under 22, 30 goal scorer is RARE in this league. Guys like Thornton, Lecavalier, etc. took years to put up those kind of numbers. Guys like Kopitar, Kane, Toews, CROSBY, OVECHKIN, etc. did it within their first couple seasons. I'm not saying that Kopitar is as good as the Ovechkins of the league, but you have to pay a kid for potential when he puts up 70+ points during his entry contract. That's just the way it goes.

I did like the interview, though. Lombardi seems really pleased with the steps Kopitar has already taken this summer. We can really see him explode next season, especially playing with the likes of Smyth/Frolov and a healthy Williams. Watch out.

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