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Perhaps Dubinsky is the Perfect Center for Gaborik

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Old
08-16-2009, 02:48 PM
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t3hg00se
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Perhaps Dubinsky is the Perfect Center for Gaborik

When you look at a player like Gaborik, you see someone who is fast, creates their own chances, and needs room to be creative. We could have an issue on our hands like we did with Jagr two years ago. Jagr didn't work with Gomez because Jagr wants the puck, and Gomez likes to hog it. Has anyone stopped to think that perhaps Gaborik would work better with a guy like Dubinsky then Richards? Dubinsky fights along the boards, hits hard and often, and is a decent sized body. He's the exact kind of player you want on a line with a guy who needs a lot of room, and wants to hold onto the puck. I really don't want to see a guy like Gomez, Richards, or Thornton centering Gaborik, because there is the possibility that they take away from his game.

If you look at Gaborik's time in Minnasota this last season, he was on pace for 60 goals playing with Sheppard, Veilleux, Olvecky, and Fritsche. Not a single one of those players would even crack our line up this upcoming year. But there is a reason that they all worked with Gaborik, they hit people, they hustle, and they cause confusion in the offensive zone with a strong forcheck. Dubinsky does what all four of those players can, while still progressing offensively, hitting more then any of those four do, is expected to pot 20 goals, and on top of all of that, as a nice little bonus, he's a terrible fighter, giving us comic relief in the process.

It's nice to have a fast skating, puck threading #1 center, but perhaps, that isn't the kind that this team needs to get the most out of their new superstar.

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08-16-2009, 02:55 PM
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You'd take Dubinsky over Thornton, Richards, and Gomez?

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08-16-2009, 02:57 PM
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The Perfect Paradox
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Very well said man, and I completely agree with what your saying. It seems like Gaborik doesn't necessarily need a #1 center. An average center that just hustles would be able to make room for Gaborik.

Call me crazy, but for some reason I could see Torts putting Avery with Gaborik sometime during the season. Not because I think Avery should be on the first line, simply because when he's out on the rink everyone is so concerned with watching him. If everyone is going after Avery and trying to hit him Gaborik is left wide open. Even though I'm sure other teams will pick up on this, maybe it's worth giving a shot during pre-season first.

Another quick thought I recently had about Gaborik was that Lisin might do pretty good on his wing. Again, I don't think Lisin is a 1st liner on ANY team (ok, maybe the Fishsticks ) but, he has the speed to keep up with Gaborik. If Gabby is trying to take the puck in and gain the zone, I could see Lisin being right with him to maybe be able to work a quick give and go or pick on a rebound on one of Gaborik's shots.

Just my 2 cents.

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08-16-2009, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
You'd take Dubinsky over Thornton, Richards, and Gomez?
I'm not saying he's better than Thornton, Richards, or Gomez. I'm saying he could be better for Gaborik than Thornton, Richards, or Gomez.

Would you have taken Gomez centering Jagr over Dubinsky centering Jagr?

Because the NYR did, and that experiment failed.

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08-16-2009, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
You'd take Dubinsky over Thornton, Richards, and Gomez?
I don't think he's saying he would take Dubinsky over any of the centers, just that a #1 center for Gaborik isn't something the Rangers desperately need.

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08-16-2009, 02:59 PM
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I don't know where to start with your scouting reports on both players. I'll just keep it simple, Gaborik isn't a puck holder like say Jagr as he is more a get open and use his speed rather then puck control / stick handler to create his own plays. He says this himself if you read his interview posted earlier on this site. So to say he wouldn't benefit from a passing center or creative center is not accurate.

On Dubinsky he is faster then you give him credit for and a better playmaker also. Not that it matters but his fighting improved also from his rookie year.

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08-16-2009, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Henrik 30 View Post
Very well said man, and I completely agree with what your saying. It seems like Gaborik doesn't necessarily need a #1 center. An average center that just hustles would be able to make room for Gaborik.

Call me crazy, but for some reason I could see Torts putting Avery with Gaborik sometime during the season. Not because I think Avery should be on the first line, simply because when he's out on the rink everyone is so concerned with watching him. If everyone is going after Avery and trying to hit him Gaborik is left wide open. Even though I'm sure other teams will pick up on this, maybe it's worth giving a shot during pre-season first.

Another quick thought I recently had about Gaborik was that Lisin might do pretty good on his wing. Again, I don't think Lisin is a 1st liner on ANY team (ok, maybe the Fishsticks ) but, he has the speed to keep up with Gaborik. If Gabby is trying to take the puck in and gain the zone, I could see Lisin being right with him to maybe be able to work a quick give and go or pick on a rebound on one of Gaborik's shots.

Just my 2 cents.
I actually thought that when we traded for Lisin, it was to mature him into a player to play with Gaborik.

On Avery, he is also probably the 2nd/3rd fastest skater on this team. When he played with Dubi and Jagr, that was the best line we had all season. Avery could be fantastic on our first line, imagine if this was the player he was day in and day out with Gaborik.


link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp-pLY1W-Gs ( I still don't know how to embed these damn things =/ )

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08-16-2009, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by t3hg00se View Post
I'm not saying he's better than Thornton, Richards, or Gomez. I'm saying he could be better for Gaborik than Thornton, Richards, or Gomez.

Would you have taken Gomez centering Jagr over Dubinsky centering Jagr?

Because the NYR did, and that experiment failed.
Jagr and Gaborik are two very different players.

Jagr's style was based around slowing the game down. Puck posession.

Gaborik is a run and gun sniper.

Gomez didn't work with Jagr because they both like to carry the puck and do the playmaking. Gaborik is not a playmaker.

Guys like Thornton, Gomez, and Richards are the ones that carry the puck and set up snipers like Gaborik.

I think Dubinsky has the mold of Thornton. They're both big bodies that like to carry the puck and use their size to protect it. Dubinsky obviously isn't as talented as big Joe but they have similar playing styles.

Dubinsky might do ok centering Gaborik but to say he's a better option than Richards, Thornton, or Gomez is silly.

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08-16-2009, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t3hg00se View Post
I actually thought that when we traded for Lisin, it was to mature him into a player to play with Gaborik.

On Avery, he is also probably the 2nd/3rd fastest skater on this team. When he played with Dubi and Jagr, that was the best line we had all season. Avery could be fantastic on our first line, imagine if this was the player he was day in and day out with Gaborik.


link: tp-pLY1W-Gs ( I still don't know how to embed these damn things =/ )
For the youtube thing you just enter everything after the "v=". So for the video you tried to post you would just paste the "tp-pLY1W-Gs" in between the Youtube tags. I fixed it in the quote for you.

I've never thought of using Lisin like that. If we let Lisin mature playing with Gaborik, we can have one solid player in our hands. He has the speed and maybe him playing with Gaborik will help him pick up things at the NHL level faster. If they're together long enough, they can become a deadly combo.

As for Avery, you hit it right on the head. Besides drawing players away from Gaborik, he can also stay in front of the net to pick up rebounds. His speed is kind of underrated and I'm sure he wouldn't fall too far behind Gaborik.

I just really hope Torts tries Lisin and Avery with him during the season. It seems like if everything clicks either one can make for a pretty good first line with Gaborik and Dubinsky.

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08-16-2009, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
Jagr and Gaborik are two very different players.

Jagr's style was based around slowing the game down. Puck posession.

Gaborik is a run and gun sniper.

Gomez didn't work with Jagr because they both like to carry the puck and do the playmaking. Gaborik is not a playmaker.

Guys like Thornton, Gomez, and Richards are the ones that carry the puck and set up snipers like Gaborik.

I think Dubinsky has the mold of Thornton. They're both big bodies that like to carry the puck and use their size to protect it. Dubinsky obviously isn't as talented as big Joe but they have similar playing styles.

Dubinsky might do ok centering Gaborik but to say he's a better option than Richards, Thornton, or Gomez is silly.
I think we really do just have a different opinion of Gaborik. While he is certainly a run and gun sniper like you said, he's also one of the best players in the game at gaining the zone. The truth is, he's a versatile player, and has played with an abundance of different centers in his career, seemingly meshing well with all of them. The one thing we don't want with Gaborik is him having to stop skating in the zone. We don't need a center who is going to hesitate on that pass. Gaborik likes to break into the zone, he likes to skate around the circles, and he likes to fly across the crease. We don't need a guy like Gomez who is going to stand still and shuffle the puck one too many times while Gaborik is waiting for his clear path.


And thanks for the help, KH30. =P


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08-16-2009, 07:40 PM
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Sorry man, I am a big Dubinsky fan, but this just seems like wishful thinking.

Brad Richards, and even Scott Gomez would be great with Gaborik, but would be cap disasters.

In Gaborik's interview in the Post last month, he said he preferred a center that could carry the puck and distribute it to him on the rush.

I actually think Dubinsky will be fair with that, but certainly not as good as Gomez or Richards......or Joe Thornton (but I figured I didnt even have to mention that)

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08-16-2009, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t3hg00se View Post
I think we really do just have a different opinion of Gaborik. While he is certainly a run and gun sniper like you said, he's also one of the best players in the game at gaining the zone. The truth is, he's a versatile player, and has played with an abundance of different centers in his career, seemingly meshing well with all of them. The one thing we don't want with Gaborik is him having to stop skating in the zone. We don't need a center who is going to hesitate on that pass. Gaborik likes to break into the zone, he likes to skate around the circles, and he likes to fly across the crease. We don't need a guy like Gomez who is going to stand still and shuffle the puck one too many times while Gaborik is waiting for his clear path.


And thanks for the help, KH30. =P
I still don't see what Dubinsky can do better than Thornton, Gomez, or Richards that would make him a better center for Gaborik. Those 3 guys have skillsets that not many in the NHL can touch. They are on a completely different level in terms of skill, talent, and experience.

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08-16-2009, 08:21 PM
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Prospal-Dubinsky-Gaborik will be the 1st line come October. Bank on it. A perfect combination of speed, skill, and grit.

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08-16-2009, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
Prospal-Dubinsky-Gaborik will be the 1st line come October. Bank on it. A perfect combination of speed, skill, and grit.
You know, if Dubi has a 60pt breakout season, Prospal follows his career pattern of an off and on year (this one will be on) and Gaborik staying healthy then we have the makings of a very solid 1st line, very productive offensively and defensively sound as well.

Lots of if's though =/ but im optimistic


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08-16-2009, 09:14 PM
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I think the Prospal signing well help take a bit off of Dubinsky's shoulders if he is with this team and is the 1st line center come October.

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08-16-2009, 09:27 PM
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Personally i think Anisimov is going to be the center for Gaborik but thats just me.

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08-16-2009, 09:31 PM
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They will turn to Prospal if Dubinsky fails.

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08-16-2009, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by FutureGM97 View Post
Personally i think Anisimov is going to be the center for Gaborik but thats just me.
Never in a million years

In fact, Anisimov's spot on the roster isnt as rock solid as it was prior to the Prospal signing.

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08-16-2009, 10:36 PM
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the manlove for dubinsky on this board is nauseating. good young player but really people. come on. what exactly has he done so far in his career to warrant being our number 1 pivot before camp even starts.

and this whole no contract thing is weird. certainly not the kinda of negotiations you would expect if the guy was going to be gaboriks centerman. i look at callahan being signed rather quickly yet dubi isnt and hes supposed to center our top line.

something aint right here.

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08-17-2009, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
the manlove for dubinsky on this board is nauseating. good young player but really people. come on. what exactly has he done so far in his career to warrant being our number 1 pivot before camp even starts.

and this whole no contract thing is weird. certainly not the kinda of negotiations you would expect if the guy was going to be gaboriks centerman. i look at callahan being signed rather quickly yet dubi isnt and hes supposed to center our top line.

something aint right here.
But, but, but, he works hard.

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08-17-2009, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by t3hg00se View Post
When you look at a player like Gaborik, you see someone who is fast, creates their own chances, and needs room to be creative. We could have an issue on our hands like we did with Jagr two years ago. Jagr didn't work with Gomez because Jagr wants the puck, and Gomez likes to hog it. Has anyone stopped to think that perhaps Gaborik would work better with a guy like Dubinsky then Richards? Dubinsky fights along the boards, hits hard and often, and is a decent sized body. He's the exact kind of player you want on a line with a guy who needs a lot of room, and wants to hold onto the puck. I really don't want to see a guy like Gomez, Richards, or Thornton centering Gaborik, because there is the possibility that they take away from his game.

If you look at Gaborik's time in Minnasota this last season, he was on pace for 60 goals playing with Sheppard, Veilleux, Olvecky, and Fritsche. Not a single one of those players would even crack our line up this upcoming year. But there is a reason that they all worked with Gaborik, they hit people, they hustle, and they cause confusion in the offensive zone with a strong forcheck. Dubinsky does what all four of those players can, while still progressing offensively, hitting more then any of those four do, is expected to pot 20 goals, and on top of all of that, as a nice little bonus, he's a terrible fighter, giving us comic relief in the process.

It's nice to have a fast skating, puck threading #1 center, but perhaps, that isn't the kind that this team needs to get the most out of their new superstar.

"Perhaps" Dubi is the perfect center for Gabby, but in all reality, he is probably just our best option on this squad. I love Dubinsky and the way he plays. Ill be PISSED if he gets dealt for Richards, or whoever. With that said, keep him, Glen! And give our future captain a fair shot with Gabs.

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08-17-2009, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t3hg00se View Post
When you look at a player like Gaborik, you see someone who is fast, creates their own chances, and needs room to be creative. We could have an issue on our hands like we did with Jagr two years ago. Jagr didn't work with Gomez because Jagr wants the puck, and Gomez likes to hog it. Has anyone stopped to think that perhaps Gaborik would work better with a guy like Dubinsky then Richards? Dubinsky fights along the boards, hits hard and often, and is a decent sized body. He's the exact kind of player you want on a line with a guy who needs a lot of room, and wants to hold onto the puck. I really don't want to see a guy like Gomez, Richards, or Thornton centering Gaborik, because there is the possibility that they take away from his game.

If you look at Gaborik's time in Minnasota this last season, he was on pace for 60 goals playing with Sheppard, Veilleux, Olvecky, and Fritsche. Not a single one of those players would even crack our line up this upcoming year. But there is a reason that they all worked with Gaborik, they hit people, they hustle, and they cause confusion in the offensive zone with a strong forcheck. Dubinsky does what all four of those players can, while still progressing offensively, hitting more then any of those four do, is expected to pot 20 goals, and on top of all of that, as a nice little bonus, he's a terrible fighter, giving us comic relief in the process.

It's nice to have a fast skating, puck threading #1 center, but perhaps, that isn't the kind that this team needs to get the most out of their new superstar.

Goose- I see the potential combo the same way you do. Call it too optimistic or whatever, but I really feel that in this new system, these two players are going to excel together. I would take Dubi over Richards anyday of the week. Straight up even. I would at this point also take him over Gomez as well. Simply becuase of the styles involved. I too don't think they would work. Thornton is another story. But they style aspect I agree with. They simply don't match!

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08-17-2009, 08:33 AM
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Dubinsky: $700k hit (if one year) or $2-3m max if extended

Richards: $7.8m cap hit

July 1, 2010: Staal is RFA

NO THANKS!

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08-17-2009, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AXN View Post
They will turn to Prospal if Dubinsky fails.
Could be but I am thinking they will be on a line with Gaborik together...........I like the though of that and Kotalik, Anisimov, Lisin.........Higgins, Drury, Callahan...........Avery, Boyle, Brashear

Of course things will change throughout the year but they do have some nice options/combos

I figure Arnason gets the 13th spot with Voros and Rissmiller down , same goes for Grachev, Byers and Parenteau, Locke

More I think of if they don't really have to worry about having Rissmiller and Voros in the minors all year cause they have other options they can call up ahead of them anyways.

So those guys are burried in Hartord all year because they will be taken for 500,000 on re-entry. Come playoffs they can always be used as spares anyway with NHL experience. Lets hope it never gets to that

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08-17-2009, 09:25 AM
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T3...

I'm going to begin by saying that Jagr and Gomez didn't work out because Renney didn't want it to work out. To say that Gomez is a puck hog and Jagr needs to control the puck as a reason why the two didn't mesh well is an incorrect statement. Nylander is and was a bigger puck hog than Jagr and the two worked well together. In fact, the Rangers needed a guy like Gomez to play with Jagr so the two would not be static in the offensive zone. The problem was that initially, Gomez and Jagr didn't click off the bat - which is understandable, but not worthy early abandonment unless the overall plan was different. Renney quickly changed that (I believe with Drury initially). The end result, by the way, was pretty much Jagr's worst offensive season in his career, so because Dubi was able to tally 40 points as a rookie is not enough evidence to suggest the two actually worked that well together. Gomez and Jagr actually did play well together in December. Not sure why the tandem was broken up except for my notion that to create better balance, which is something I believe Renney craved, having Jagr play with Dubi enabled him to have a second line with Gomez and a third line with Drury (sounds great on the surface).

So to Dubi playing with Gabby - maybe Dubi has a breakout season and develops good offensive skills and instincts. I haven't seen it yet. Gabby is in another league and no doubt if healthy Dubi will put up the points as a result of playing with him. To me, I think the line would need a finisher in the middle and Drury would be the perfect guy, being a right-handed shot with Gabby coming down the right side. Of course, I haven't thought-out the lines coherently yet so I can't say how that affects other lines, but off the top of my head, that seems to make the most sense for an optimal top line. My issue with Dubi is he's not creative and he doesn't have a great nose for the net. Take away the name Dubi and any of his attributes except that he's not creative and doesn't have a nose for the net - is that who you want as your top line centerman playing with a world class talent?

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