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Old
08-16-2009, 11:14 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
There has been? Maybe on these boards.
Oh c'mon.

- His messy contract negotiations and subsequent departure to Vancouver.

- His inability to step back to a reduced role and reduced icetime when he returned to NY.

- His running players and coaches in and out of town behind the scenes in both tours of duty.

- Hell, I'll even throw in when he came back and spent a year nauseatingly shilling for that cold remedy.

Was management culpable in allowing these things to happen? Sure. But that doesn't change his involvement.

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Old
08-16-2009, 11:44 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
The thing I hate about Mess being GM one day, is that we will, eventually, have to fire him.
Good point!

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08-16-2009, 12:01 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Oh c'mon.

- His messy contract negotiations and subsequent departure to Vancouver.

- His inability to step back to a reduced role and reduced icetime when he returned to NY.

- His running players and coaches in and out of town behind the scenes in both tours of duty.

- Hell, I'll even throw in when he came back and spent a year nauseatingly shilling for that cold remedy.

Was management culpable in allowing these things to happen? Sure. But that doesn't change his involvement.
- The defection to Vancouver was wrongly handled on both sides.

- His inability to take a reduced role? For whom exactly? The fact is even in his last season he was one of the most productive players on this team.

- He ran Roger Neilson out. Would you prefer he didn't?

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08-16-2009, 12:11 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post

[ His messy contract negotiations and subsequent departure to Vancouver.

You mean when he was high fiving Graves and Leetch on a fishing trip in the Bahamas over the Skrudlund and Keene signings? What "messy" contract negotiations took place? The Garden wasted time trying to get Ewing signed and Vancouver swooped in with an offer the Rangers weren't prepared to match. It was a little ugly for a week but he didn't depart with his middle finger raised or with Garden bashing comments....
Quote:
- His inability to step back to a reduced role and reduced icetime when he returned to NY.
How is that Messier's fault? Was he the coach of the team?


Quote:
- His running players and coaches in and out of town behind the scenes in both tours of duty.
Wait so Roger Neilson shouldn't have been fired? In addition what players do you speak of?



Quote:
- Hell, I'll even throw in when he came back and spent a year nauseatingly shilling for that cold remedy.
Wow, an endorsement deal....
Quote:
Was management culpable in allowing these things to happen? Sure. But that doesn't change his involvement.
Management is fully culpable for most of these things you are blaming Messier for.

Messier isn't coming in as Sathers replacement, he is coming in paying his dues and seeing where it leads. I think he will be named GM and frankly if he earns the job I don't see a problem with it. I will see a problem with him being the GM if he spends the majority of the time around the Garden and not on the road learning the ropes.


Mark Messier was the Captain of the one stanley Cup winning team we have had in the past 70 years hasn't he EARNED the right for a shot at a management position?

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Old
08-16-2009, 12:33 PM
  #30
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one thing i like about this is, mess is a winner. i think its something you need. i know he is not playing but he knows what it takes to win. what a winning team is and does. and i hope he can talk some sense into glen when needed(and that is a lot).
would i rather have had renney as GM jr.? yes but i still see this as being a good move overall.

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Old
08-16-2009, 12:41 PM
  #31
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this is an excellent move, as was the Yzerman move...

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Old
08-16-2009, 12:52 PM
  #32
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For the record, as with every move I disagree with, I hope I'm wrong about this one and we can all look back on this day as the day that the Rangers took the definitive step that results in the finest front office in the league for decades to come. I just don't see it.

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Old
08-16-2009, 12:55 PM
  #33
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I think Messier could probably handle a PR/Community Development position like Graves, but that's about it. Not sure why we would want him as part of our front office. It's ashame that decisions on front office positions can come down to what someone did as a player for a team a decade+ ago. I'm pretty sure no other team would give Messier a spot in their front office right now, and when that's the case it's probably a bad move.

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Old
08-16-2009, 01:14 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
So this guys been sniffing around the NHL dinner table for scraps for what, 15 years, without working or earning a shot and he deserves to apprentice for the next Ranger GM? I feel the 94 Oiler contingent, except for Gravy, are like the uninvited guests that move in permanently. I'm amazed how little ex-Oilers identify with Edmonton.

We'll be stuck with ex-Oilers for my life-time. This Sucks!!!! This dude "lead" us into the toilet for his 2nd tour and he "knows what it takes to win in New York?"

Does he know where Edmonton is? Enough already. There are far more deserving former (home-grown) Rangers that deserve it more.

Am I, besides Checketts, the only guy that thinks we've already paid enough for that lonely Cup? He pulled hold-outs and extorted concessions from the Rangers, left to chase the money and returned to lead us out of the playoffs for years. Yeah, he's the greatest. NOT!

I wouldn't mind Leetch (never happen while the Baffoon from Banf-f-f is here) or Ricky as they're our guys. But Methuseluh?
Yes, let's bash the guy who brought the cup to NY. If he wasn't here, NJ would have 4 cups, and we would be hearing 1940 chants still...

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Old
08-16-2009, 03:18 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by BKBlackRanger View Post
Mess= Torts type of guy lmao
Actually, I think it should be the opposite: Torts=Messier's type of guy.

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Old
08-16-2009, 03:48 PM
  #36
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As long as he pays his dues and takes the time to learn the management aspects of the game (both the personnel part and the business part), I don't have a problem with this. The best players in sports very rarely if ever make good coaches or management types but that doesn't mean he shouldn't get the chance to prove himself if he aspires to hold a GM position one day.

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Old
08-16-2009, 04:12 PM
  #37
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The only suprising thing about this move (especially given Messier's history with Sather) is that it took this long to happen.

Everyone in hockey knows one another and the whole business functions via the relationships that are built over the course of decades. Most of the people in the front office have been in hockey for their whole lives.

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Old
08-16-2009, 05:12 PM
  #38
nyr2k2
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I said long ago that Messier would be the next GM of the team. People skewered me for it at the time, but I thought the writing was on the wall then and it looks like I was right.

I don't know how I feel about it. I'll have to see what Messier accomplishes in his new role before getting excited or freaking out.

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Old
08-16-2009, 05:14 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
Yes, let's bash the guy who brought the cup to NY. If he wasn't here, NJ would have 4 cups, and we would be hearing 1940 chants still...
I sometimes get tired of people bringing up '94 over and over, but you put things in a different light

'94 sure is a hell of a lot better than 1940. Not that one cup in 69 years is something to be proud of, but it could always be worse.

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Old
08-16-2009, 05:27 PM
  #40
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Were any of these Mess-bashers of age when he brought the cup to N.Y.?????Just curious.

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Old
08-16-2009, 05:37 PM
  #41
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Were any of these Mess-bashers of age when he brought the cup to N.Y.?????Just curious.
Yep. Boy, it's been a looooooooooong time, huh?

Exactly why I don't think that that buys him a free ticket into the front office.

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Old
08-16-2009, 05:42 PM
  #42
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My favorite part of the article

Quote:
Messier is not expected to be on the ice at camp with head coach John Tortorella and assistant Mike Sullivan. Assistant general manager Jim Schoenfeld, who served as Tortorella's assistant last year, is likely to be on the ice working with the team's young defensemen, not only during training camp, but also intermittently during the season.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/08162009...ck__184732.htm

Did someone get demoted?

Since Schoenfeld was promoted to AGM,Sather has brought in Jeff Gorton(first as pro scout and now as assistant director of player personnel),Mike Barnett(as senior advisor/US scouting director)and now Messier as special assistant to the GM. Hope handles the cap. Clark is director of player personnel scouting amateur players and following the Rangers prospects. Gorton runs the Rangers pro scouting department.What does Schoenfeld do?He GM's Hartford. People thought Schoeny was going to replace Slats?

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Old
08-16-2009, 05:52 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by ImmortalRanger View Post
Well i don't know about the whole smoking buisness ( guess i'll have to wikipedia messier ) but look on the bright side ,when messier is GM it means 1 of 2 things

1) sather is dead
2) sather finally has hit the mental breaking point and signed joel lundqvist to a 10mill contract to play goalie


This is all of course if messier ever even gets the chance to move up the ranks in the organization.
Now THAT we can agree on But you know what they say about evil, right? The lesser of two evils is still evil.


Last edited by HoosierDaddy: 08-17-2009 at 12:59 AM.
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Old
08-16-2009, 06:06 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
Yes, let's bash the guy who brought the cup to NY. If he wasn't here, NJ would have 4 cups, and we would be hearing 1940 chants still...
From the press release "...carried the team to the s\Stanley Cup..." as if he were playing 1 against 5. I call BS. Matteau doesn't score the OT winners your scenario probably would hve played out. Where's teh blame for leading us in the flustercuck years out of the playoffs? It cuts both ways. Look, I don't particularly like the guy for the reasons I stated previously, that's not going to change.

I grew up watching the Rangers in the mid-60's so I'm not drinking the Edmonton Koolaid - thank you very much. He got paid his millions for the mercenary services. Now go back to Edmonton where you won 5 Cups.

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Old
08-16-2009, 06:14 PM
  #45
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If some of the Messier bashers are sick about all the praise Mess gets because of 94 you should just see the love in that goes on with Linden in Vancouver.

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Old
08-16-2009, 07:33 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Macke View Post
If some of the Messier bashers are sick about all the praise Mess gets because of 94 you should just see the love in that goes on with Linden in Vancouver.
lol and at least we won the cup!

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Old
08-16-2009, 07:43 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
From the press release "...carried the team to the s\Stanley Cup..." as if he were playing 1 against 5. I call BS. Matteau doesn't score the OT winners your scenario probably would hve played out. Where's teh blame for leading us in the flustercuck years out of the playoffs? It cuts both ways. Look, I don't particularly like the guy for the reasons I stated previously, that's not going to change.

I grew up watching the Rangers in the mid-60's so I'm not drinking the Edmonton Koolaid - thank you very much. He got paid his millions for the mercenary services. Now go back to Edmonton where you won 5 Cups.
So without Messier we don't get Lowe who was a monster for us that year. We don't beat NJ in game 6. New Jersey goes on to beat Vancouver. And because of Sather and Smith's mistakes it's Messier's fault we were mediocre for 7+ years. Yikes. I'm sorry but I've never met anyone so angry at the front office so much that they'd hate the guy that brought ELITE players over, helped develops Graves, and win us a Cup. Would you rather us not make the trade and not have "11" or "Graves-9" up in the rafters? Good god man, give your head a shake.

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Old
08-16-2009, 08:06 PM
  #48
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I'm also of the mind-set that maybe, just maybe it would have been better for Messier to "cut his teeth" so to speak with another organization. Edmonton would have been preferable in my opinion.

I get what he did for the Rangers. His presense made this organization believe it was good enough to win. He made the players around him more comfortable and confident in their abilities and at that time, that was friggin awesome, but do we really have to be the training ground for him to learn the ropes to be a GM?

Does ANYONE really believe that he's NOT the next GM? You don't groom someone like this to get a job for your competition.

Maybe I am assuming to much when i say I don't think he would be a good GM. It's not often when great players make good front office personel. The odds are stacked against them as the game comes easy to the talented. Its the guys that actually have to work hard that make great front office guys.

Thank you Mess for 1994, a great day for me that we were able to say that we won a championship.

But for me....enough is enough already.

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Old
08-16-2009, 08:38 PM
  #49
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The odds are stacked against them as the game comes easy to the talented. Its the guys that actually have to work hard that make great front office guys.
this, This, THIS!!!

It's the reason (imo) that Gretzky is not a good coach, or why Messier will not be a good GM...they were just on such a different level in terms of skill that they can't evaluate players for what they truly are.

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Old
08-16-2009, 08:44 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by RussianRangersFan View Post
this, This, THIS!!!

It's the reason (imo) that Gretzky is not a good coach, or why Messier will not be a good GM...they were just on such a different level in terms of skill that they can't evaluate players for what they truly are.
With this, I will agree. I want to Messier succeed, but it seems that successful front office/management former super-star players are the exception and not the rule. There are/have been some but it always seems the "muckers" make for better coaches/GM's.

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