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Perhaps Dubinsky is the Perfect Center for Gaborik

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Old
08-17-2009, 10:28 AM
  #26
Vitto79
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Originally Posted by FutureGM97 View Post
Personally i think Anisimov is going to be the center for Gaborik but thats just me.
its a little too much pressure going into the year but as the year goes on that could go down. I rather see Lisin and Anisimov get a shot together and see if they can light it up

so many options especially with Prospal in now. I see him as a guy Torts envisions as a playmaker for Gaborik with Dubinsky to start at C

Thing is at that point i like the idea of Higgins and Callahan working together cause they are so similar but then I also like Drury and Kotalik teaming up because of their past

Avery will get his minutes and will be real important on the PK

Can Boyle PK?.

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08-17-2009, 10:33 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I'm going to begin by saying that Jagr and Gomez didn't work out because Renney didn't want it to work out. To say that Gomez is a puck hog and Jagr needs to control the puck as a reason why the two didn't mesh well is an incorrect statement. Nylander is and was a bigger puck hog than Jagr and the two worked well together. In fact, the Rangers needed a guy like Gomez to play with Jagr so the two would not be static in the offensive zone. The problem was that initially, Gomez and Jagr didn't click off the bat - which is understandable, but not worthy early abandonment unless the overall plan was different. Renney quickly changed that (I believe with Drury initially). The end result, by the way, was pretty much Jagr's worst offensive season in his career, so because Dubi was able to tally 40 points as a rookie is not enough evidence to suggest the two actually worked that well together. Gomez and Jagr actually did play well together in December. Not sure why the tandem was broken up except for my notion that to create better balance, which is something I believe Renney craved, having Jagr play with Dubi enabled him to have a second line with Gomez and a third line with Drury (sounds great on the surface).

So to Dubi playing with Gabby - maybe Dubi has a breakout season and develops good offensive skills and instincts. I haven't seen it yet. Gabby is in another league and no doubt if healthy Dubi will put up the points as a result of playing with him. To me, I think the line would need a finisher in the middle and Drury would be the perfect guy, being a right-handed shot with Gabby coming down the right side. Of course, I haven't thought-out the lines coherently yet so I can't say how that affects other lines, but off the top of my head, that seems to make the most sense for an optimal top line. My issue with Dubi is he's not creative and he doesn't have a great nose for the net. Take away the name Dubi and any of his attributes except that he's not creative and doesn't have a nose for the net - is that who you want as your top line centerman playing with a world class talent?
Not saying it wouldn't make sense, but Torts actually came out and said he wanted a big physical Left Handed shot to play with Gabby.

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08-17-2009, 10:48 AM
  #28
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in the age of the salary cap it is well nigh impossible to have comparisons like Dubinsky and Thornton or Dub and Gomez. The salary just doesn't allow it. They can't be compared. You make the best out of the contracts you have. If you are a good GM you avoid some of the bigger cap hits and if you are lucky your team scores a few hits in the draft and so the club can "backfill" the lower echelon roster spots with less expensive younger players that have been developed.

Or you COULD go with the Pittsburgh, Washington now Islanders method and really stink, take a top lottery pick for a season or three and build around your ringers...

Rangers don't seem to follow this method. Nor are they as successful at developing picks like say the Red Wings or even the Habs or Bruins are.

Dubinsky is the center with the most experience on club who was drafted by the club and is still with the club. Hence he is the best option. Are there better options ? well I suppose in the playstation world where contracts don't exist or in fantasy land where GMs make questionable moves anything is possible or a motivated NHL gm pulls the trigger... The panthers did trade Dan Boyle after all as did the Canucks landing Naslund or the Bruins getting Neely.

man love ? perhaps

realistic ? certainly

I also like the idea of Gaborik with Prospal and Dubinsky,
Drury with Kotalik and perhaps Higgins, assuming Drury plays center leaving Callahan and Avery to excel on the checking line.

Its august but I like the look of the club.

It helps that the hockey news has them ranked #13th in the East

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08-17-2009, 10:55 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
the manlove for dubinsky on this board is nauseating. good young player but really people. come on. what exactly has he done so far in his career to warrant being our number 1 pivot before camp even starts.

and this whole no contract thing is weird. certainly not the kinda of negotiations you would expect if the guy was going to be gaboriks centerman. i look at callahan being signed rather quickly yet dubi isnt and hes supposed to center our top line.

something aint right here.


Certainly his numbers, two 40 point campaigns don't back up him being a 1st line center. But the fact is watching what he does gives you that feeling sometimes. During parts of his first season and the beginning of last season, he looked like he could be a star player in this league. But his finishing dropped off. This is just IMO, but a player who plays like him could put up 25 goals and 65-75 points. With the right player. Which is what this thread is about, is Gaborik the right player for Dubinsky.

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08-17-2009, 11:25 AM
  #30
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I think I saw that, Lion Hound, but I should clarify that what I think is optimal, is not neccessarily what I think will happen. Further, I have not gone through the entire roster top to bottom to determine what I feel would be optimal line combinations. Not entirely enthused about the top nine at this moment - perhaps I just haven't spent enought time rationalizing it.

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08-17-2009, 11:35 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Henrik 30 View Post
I don't think he's saying he would take Dubinsky over any of the centers, just that a #1 center for Gaborik isn't something the Rangers desperately need.
Every single team that has ever played the game deperately needs a #1 center whether the Rangers have one or not. To think otherwise flies against logic.

This idea that someone like Thornton might not be better suited to Gaborik than is Dubinsky, at this point in time, ranks as one of the funniest things I have ever seen posted here, and that's quite an accomplishment.

Then again, telling me that Avery on the #1 line is a stellar idea might be a better one, unless Avery had a between-seasons brain transplant that never made it to the news.

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08-17-2009, 11:37 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I think I saw that, Lion Hound, but I should clarify that what I think is optimal, is not neccessarily what I think will happen. Further, I have not gone through the entire roster top to bottom to determine what I feel would be optimal line combinations. Not entirely enthused about the top nine at this moment - perhaps I just haven't spent enought time rationalizing it.

I hear ya Fletch...I guess training camp will tell us a lot of about the possible line combo's. Like every season, throw all the speculation out the window once camp starts. Usually it's the combo's that nobody expected/predicted that eventually come out.

I'm optimistic about the top 9. At least for this particular system. I think they have a decent mix of players speed/grit/and more importantly players that can excel in a quick transition game. Which to my understanding is what an aggressive forecheck is all about. Pressure the defenseman to make hasty decisions. This has Cally, Avery, Dubinsky, Higgins written all over it. Look for turnovers in the neutral zone, and use the speed to create open space. This has Gaborik, Kotalik, Lisin, Prospal written all over it.

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08-17-2009, 12:36 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Certainly his numbers, two 40 point campaigns don't back up him being a 1st line center. But the fact is watching what he does gives you that feeling sometimes. During parts of his first season and the beginning of last season, he looked like he could be a star player in this league. But his finishing dropped off. This is just IMO, but a player who plays like him could put up 25 goals and 65-75 points. With the right player. Which is what this thread is about, is Gaborik the right player for Dubinsky.

you mean the other way around right.

is dubi the right center for gaborik. thats the question.

right now, my answer is..... im not so sure.

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08-17-2009, 01:26 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
its a little too much pressure going into the year but as the year goes on that could go down. I rather see Lisin and Anisimov get a shot together and see if they can light it up

so many options especially with Prospal in now. I see him as a guy Torts envisions as a playmaker for Gaborik with Dubinsky to start at C

Thing is at that point i like the idea of Higgins and Callahan working together cause they are so similar but then I also like Drury and Kotalik teaming up because of their past

Avery will get his minutes and will be real important on the PK

Can Boyle PK?.
Please can everyone stop slotting Prospal in at Center????? especially when he would get killed on draws all night.....He CAN play center, but you don't want him to be your starting center, he is a winger and should stay as a winger.

One would think Higgins would get more of a look at center than Prospal, if Dubinsky or Anisimov are struggling.

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08-17-2009, 01:56 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Garden Fithful View Post
Please can everyone stop slotting Prospal in at Center????? especially when he would get killed on draws all night.....He CAN play center, but you don't want him to be your starting center, he is a winger and should stay as a winger.

One would think Higgins would get more of a look at center than Prospal, if Dubinsky or Anisimov are struggling.
I believe you misinterpreted his post. I believe he was saying that with Dubi playing C, Prospal on the wing would bolster offense on that line... Also, Prospal came up as a center, and can play the position very well. He may not be a face-off specialist, but is far from a liability. He is a better Center than Higgins...

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08-17-2009, 02:05 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Mjollnir9 View Post
I believe you misinterpreted his post. I believe he was saying that with Dubi playing C, Prospal on the wing would bolster offense on that line... Also, Prospal came up as a center, and can play the position very well. He may not be a face-off specialist, but is far from a liability. He is a better Center than Higgins...
yep, I am saying Dubinsky should be the C, Prospal on the LW and Gaborik on the RW. Of course who the heck knows what will happen in camp but I would start with that cause Prospal is apparently a good playmaker

I like the idea of Higgins with Callahan and Kotalik with Lisin, not really sure who I would want to C the lines cause I like the idea of Lisin with another young Russian Anisimov and Drury with Kotalik .........whatever happens happens

I also don't get why people flip about Avery starting with Boyle and Brashear. He can PK and in the 3rd period he can be bumped up to replace Lisin who apparently is not the greatest at defense but is a wiz offensively

I also say Arnason gets the 13th spot cause he only makes 700K, has NHL experience and can play all spots upfront

Just sent Voros and Rissmiller down and don't even think about calling them up through re-entry. Byers, Grachev are the top call ups with Locke and Parenteau the next options upfront

I really like the depth

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08-17-2009, 02:06 PM
  #37
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Lion - maybe I'm comfortable with the top nine, but am not comfortable with the entire group at this point. If they play more wide open, can the defense handle the extra pressure? Lundqvist seems to melt during stretches of the season and early season pressure on him needs to be avoided somewhat because I think it wears on him, but that stunts the offense. We'll see. I'm interested to see what Torts has.

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08-17-2009, 03:37 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garden Fithful View Post
Please can everyone stop slotting Prospal in at Center????? especially when he would get killed on draws all night.....He CAN play center, but you don't want him to be your starting center, he is a winger and should stay as a winger.

One would think Higgins would get more of a look at center than Prospal, if Dubinsky or Anisimov are struggling.
Prospal won 53% of his draws last year, 55.7% the year before, 52.4% the year before that, and 45.6 percent in '05-'06. I can't find stats for before the lockout. So, I'm not sure he'd be getting killed.

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08-17-2009, 03:46 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Prospal won 53% of his draws last year, 55.7% the year before, 52.4% the year before that, and 45.6 percent in '05-'06. I can't find stats for before the lockout. So, I'm not sure he'd be getting killed.

Pretty good faceoff percentages there. I didn't know he was good off the draw either.

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08-17-2009, 04:01 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
Pretty good faceoff percentages there. I didn't know he was good off the draw either.
I know he's primarily a wing, so I'm betting those percentages are based off of relatively low face off totals. Still, you don't win draws at that rate by accident...not over 4 years.

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08-18-2009, 06:02 AM
  #41
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well both Prospal and Dubinsky are left handed shots which is the key factor in determining Gaborik's center. Alternatively both Brandon and Vaclav can play LW, so the more I think about those 3 guys lining up together, the more I like it.

Kotalik and Drury are also a nice matchup with perhaps Higgins slotted in as the other winger, giving the centers job to Chris.

I also wouldn't mind seeing Higgins getting LW time with prospal and Gaborik but I am not sold on Vaclav being a "true" #1 center. Add to it, that Vaclav is only signed for 1 season so in the longer term perhaps dubinsky getting that ice time is the better strategy.

I hope we do all agree that Avery and Callahan is a heck of a 3rd line. If Anisimov or Boyle can center that line they would have nice wheels, physical presence and and with the two wingers finishing potential as well.

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08-18-2009, 06:17 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I know he's primarily a wing, so I'm betting those percentages are based off of relatively low face off totals. Still, you don't win draws at that rate by accident...not over 4 years.
Players who dont take a lot of face-offs usually dont have very good numbers (dont have such an experience). so I think it wouldnt be a problem.

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08-18-2009, 08:58 AM
  #43
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Prospal took more than 200 face offs. Not a heck of a lot, but not a little. However, 53% in that many face offs doesn't exactly mean he's a good face-off guy, it just means that on average he was better than the guys he was facing off against. Lecavalier took by far the lion's share of faceoffs for Tampa (over 1,300 I believe) and his % was just north of 50%.

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